reciever jar

[Mike in NY]

Has anyone tried using a reciever jar out of a milkhouse in place of a releaser? A flapper valve holds vaccum until transfer pump triggers and pumps reciever jar down then flapper valve closes again. Probably would not be able to sustain much over 14-15 inches of vaccum on the system I am toying with. After my 1st yr of gravity lines I am looking at 160 taps on 3 lines w the longest line being about 800ft

[Dennis H.]

Like This??

Works Great! I have another one that I use also.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dennis I admire a guy that is willing to screw anything to his house no matter what it looks like in the persuit of his hobby. I want arrows and labels on the next set of pictures so we can copy the idea:)

[farmall h]

Dennis, I meant to ask earlier...does the wife use the mainline for hanging clothes.:) Hey...I like the idea. By the way...how close is your sugarhse? Or is that the sugarhse your jar is hooked to?

[maple sapper]

I have to second all the comments after the pictoral.
I got one of those bender jars coming from iowa this week. Its now a tool for next year. I may have another one from the same source once its acquired. Those things are hard to find on the net.

[Dennis H.]

Clothes Line? why didn't I think about that. It would have made it a little easier selling the idea to the power to be.

No it isn't our house. It is a garage with an apartment above it. we lived in it till we built the house, now it is just storage and I turned the little back room into the sugarshack.

Yep that is my sugarshack where the releaser is mounted. The pic of the sugarshack is from last year so the releaser isn't there but is it where the wood is stacked.

The other two pics are of the two releasers that I am using.

[maple sapper]

Dennis,
How do you get the thumbnails on your reply? Do you click on the attatchements icon then upload them? The problem Im having is that the file is to big. Not sure how I can shrink it down to accept it. Man computers frustrate me sometimes.

[Dennis H.]

Yeah you use the manage attachments button just below the submit reply button.

You will have to resize the pic before uploading to the site though. That is where it can get tricky for some.
I use PhotoShop Elements to edit my pics. I 1st crop the pic so I just get what I want to show(This also helps reduce the size).
Then I will resize the pic. Most digital cameras will make the pic really large pixels wise, so I make the cropped pic to a size of something around 600x800.

Then when I save it I am able to reduce the image quality to also cut the size down. So I can take a pic that starts out at 3 meg and reduce it down to 95K just by using the above stepss. Clear as mud right?

I think there use to be a posting somewhere on here that explains it also I will have to look for it.

[TF Maple]

There are a few things you can do to change the size of the picture. You can start on the camera and change the resolution the camera is using to some lower numbers so the picture size is smaller. The quality of the pictures won't be as good but on the plus side, you won't use up the picture storage room on the camera as fast.
Next make sure the pictures are saved in the Jpeg format because it makes a smaller picture size compared to other formats. Look for the .jpg extension and maybe they already are in this format so this suggestion wouldn't help. If they are not .jpg you can do a "save as" and save them as .jpg.
Now if they still are not small enough you can do the resizing to make them smaller.

[farmall h]

DENNIS, I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE OLD PICS POSTED I SEE THE WEIGHT IS STILL ON TOP OF THE FLOAT. I FOUND THAT THE REASON THE WEIGHT IS ABOVE THE HAIR-PIN CLIP IS TO FORCE MORE PRESSURE ONTO THE CLIP TO RELEASE VACUUM. OOPS, sorry for the capitals. Didn't mean to yell. Work place has me on capitals lock. :)

[lpakiz]

Yes, you might be interested to know that I bought 4 Bender Releasers in the last 2 years and every one of them had the little weight ABOVE the clip. I am getting 22 -23 inches of vacuum on my SP-11 and found that it takes 3 extra 5/8 nuts along with the weight (resting on top of the weight and clip) to pull the rod down to "reset" after a dump...Otherwise it kept "hunting" and the rod would not drop.

[Dennis H.]

Yeah they were "older" pics. For some reason I couldn't find the most recent pics on this computer when I made that post. But I did find them later on my other computer.

[markct]

these releaser washers are pretty reasonable even brand new, wish i realised the all stainless one was the same price before i ordered the plastic one further down the page!

http://www.partsdeptonline.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi


part number 9289701 all stainless

part number 289701 stainless and plastic, i have this one here in front of me and appears very nicely made, but if i buy one again it will be the stainless since its the same money!

[Dennis H.]

Do you have any pics of this bucket washer. The ones on Parts Depot are small and not easy to see details.

I know my small Benders worked real nice for my small operation.

[markct]

i will try and get a few pics of it, cant realy seem much of the mechanism tho inside, just the float goes up and down the rod, the stainless one looks a bit nicer, if i buy a second one it will be a stainless one!

[farmall h]

markt, I looked at the bucket washer on that site you posted. Unfortunately that is an item you do not want as a releaser. That unit is made to regulate and dispense the detergent and water during the washing process of milk pails. Now, click on the topic RELEASERS and you will see what DennisH has but in glass...that one is ss steel. DennisH did alright on his purchase. This ss model is similar to what my folks are running on their milking pipeline system. Just different brand. I may post one of my Benders for sale. :)

[markct]

markt, I looked at the bucket washer on that site you posted. Unfortunately that is an item you do not want as a releaser. That unit is made to regulate and dispense the detergent and water during the washing process of milk pails. Now, click on the topic RELEASERS and you will see what DennisH has but in glass...that one is ss steel. DennisH did alright on his purchase. This ss model is similar to what my folks are running on their milking pipeline system. Just different brand. I may post one of my Benders for sale. :)

are ya sure we are lookin at the same item? i have the plastic housing one right here in front of me and all it is is a float that rises up and trips the valve to shut off vac and release the vac so it can drain out the bottom, i dont see why it wont work as a releaser? there no soap dispersing thing in it or anything, just a float and vac valve like the old reciever/washer jars.

[farmall h]

Markt, I was more concerned about how big it was. If it has the vacuum release mechanism a guess it would work. You said you gave it a run today? Basically it acts as a means of recirculating water during the wash cycle without using a pump..vacuum is used instead. How does it work? Work well? ps: your right ..I was looking at the wrong item.

[markct]

yea works well from what i can see, i didnt have it hooked up with check valves yet, just used it with a pail and a tube drawing water up then back, but the two check valves will basicly let it do the same thing just it will come in from one and go out the other. my plan is to use it on under 100 taps, as i have a few lines that are only 25 to 85 taps and i would love to get them on vac, and at the price of this unit it seems like it be economicle, i cant afford a 600 dollar hobby releaser to pull sap from 25 taps!

[markct]

so today i went to home depot and got some fitting and check valves for this thing to try it out for real. unlike the bender recievers these have 4 5/8 straight nipples on the bottom, not the single 1 inch dia opening, so i got two tees and barbs so i could hook up and use two of the nipples so it drains quicker than just one. other than that its the same as with a bender jar, just a check valve in and a check valve out, works great sucking up outa a bucket and dumping. i used a ball valve on the end to limit the flow in so it had about 18 in of vac on it. seemed to work well, so gona get a second one so i can put them on two of my smaller lines next year

[maple sapper]

are those the metal swing checks? I wouldnt think those would give you a great seal. How did they perform? It may do a good job on a test with no pipeline hooked up. You may find it will not perform once working with many feet of pipline and spots of vac loss.

[farmall h]

A couple of full view pics would be great to see. Basically it looks like the diaphram moves up under vacuum the the vac is shut off somewhere on the inlet and the air is released by the small rod connected to the washer? Looks like some thing I could make only a larger version...hhmmmmm. What do think maplesapper? Up for the challenge? All mechanical....:)

Maybe could run three on the same line! Or four, five....

[markct]

yea i will get a better pic when i can, yea its a float that slides up the rod, just like the bender reciever jars.

[Dennis H.]

Farmall I think you are right it sure looks like the flat washer thing goes up and shuts off the vac going into the jar then the weight of the float when empty pulls the flat washer thingy down which allows vac back into the jar.

Very simple like the Bender milk receivers.

I do agree with the others that you might want to look for another type of check valves. I believe the flapper is the best choice but there is others that are out there. I use a clear PVC flapper with unions on both ends of it so you can take it out and clean it and also being clear it is nice seeing the the sap flowing thru.

[markct]

yea im not so sure on these flapper check valves either, but they were cheap, and i have another application i can use them in if they dont work here. they seem to seal pretty well tho. i have seen a few other people use them with the bender recievers and they seemed to work so time will tell! and yes the thing that looks like a washer rises up with the shaft when the float hits it, then the end of the float rod has some kinda seal that seals off the vac line going in and that washer pushes the little pin up which vents it out in the clear chamber. seems simple enough to me! cant see why it wouldnt work?

[farmall h]

markct, I see you are using one teat cup line as an empty port...and one for your mainline entry. I would recommend that you get a pc of 4in. pvc and cap an end then drill and tap for three nipples. Plumb the three exit lines to this pc of 4in pvc. On the dump end of the pvc reduce to 2in. npt and get a 2" flap valve. This will allow the jar to empty quickly. Q: During the dump phase is the vacuum shut off when the rod is pushed up? Also the short rod on the left...that is a release port for air? By the looks of the unit I think you will do alright. Should handle 100 taps no problem.:)

[markct]

yea i know its hard to see in the picture but i actualy have two of the tees side by side and connected to two of the nipples on the bottom so it drains out at a decent speed, i know one would be too restrictive. i may do a setup to all 4 at some point but this seems to work well. if i buy a second one it will likely be the stainless model and i will see if i can tig weld on a bigger fitting to the bottom. here is a video clip of it on youtube that ya can see the vac mechanism working

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNMsm-wS0f4

[Dennis H.]

I see now how it works. Thanks for the video.

The pics didn't show that little pop up thing that dumps the vac when the metal disc closes off the vac coming into the washer.

I think time will tell if you will need to hook up more of the ports on the bottom. It will depend on how much sap and how fast the sap is coming into it.

You can always do like I did with mine and add a small chamber on the line that brings sap into the releaser. just make sure that it is above the sap level in the releaser other wise it does no good.

I can see this thing being useful for the small guy like me who is running vac.

[farmall h]

DennisH, does the washer unit have a 5th port for sap entry or is markct using the 4th port for sap entry. Also, I am assuming that the center rod must have some sort of rubber tip to it in order to close off the vac when activated by the float. It works rather fast don't you think? I wouldn't be surprised if we could set the Benders up in the same fashion. Seal off the the top of the jar and modify the rod (seal off the tiny ports on the rod and get rid of the lips) to allow vacuum to enter only. Add a conacle shaped rubber washer on the top. Enlarge the vac port as well. Secondly, copy the release mechanism as a separate and larger air release mechanism. Hhmmmmm :)

[Dennis H.]

I the way I see how he is doing the hookup's are:

There are 4 ports on the bottom and he has 2 of them hooked together with fittings and tubings. The idea is that each port is too small alone for receiving sap and dumping so he ganged 2 of the ports together to double the volume that it can receive and dump. It looks to be just the way I have my small Benser setup but just with 2 ports instead of 1.

I posted a pic of the top that he posted with a few notes added.

I cant tell but I dont think there is any rubber seat on the flat washer. there might be something in the top brass nut thing that the float rod rides up in though.
So here it goes tell me if I am wrong here.

When the float rises if forces the flat washer "C" up to seal of the vac coming in at the brass nut. Also as the washer rises it forces tge Pin "A" up and opens up the port at "B" which dumps the vac from the releaser. With vac gone sap will dump thru both bottom ports and check valve into tank.
Once the float returns to the lower position it pulls the washer "C" away from the brass nut allows vac into the releaser. Also when when the washer "C" is pulled down it also allows Pin "A" to drop and seals off the port "B" so releaser will hold vac.

It is just like my bender with just a few minor different ways of doing it thats all.

[markct]

yup your pic with notes is exactly how it works, there is some kinda seal in the end that seals off the vac above the brass nut, and this holds the rod up by the suction so the washer is holding the vent pin up till the float slides to the bottom stop and the weight of the float pops it back down which shuts the vent pin and opens the vac port in top. the two knobs are just the tie rods that hold the whole assembly together, comes apart easy to clean just undo the two knobs