Tubing help needed

[GANGGREEN]

OK, I ruined my first attempt at tubing. :mad: I decided to run tubing for the first time this year, walked a commercial sugarbush to see how it's done, even saw the Sweetest Drip DVD. I only got 29 taps up on 5/16" line feeding a 1/2" mainline but it was going to be enough for me if they produced as expected. Instead, I'm getting about a gallon per tap per day out of my buckets but only 5-10 gallons per day total out of those 29 tubed taps.

I think I got the taps up mostly right and ran my lateral lines mostly right. I'm wondering about an airlock preventing the sap from gravity feeding and I'm not sure I've seen an answer to whether there should be air running into your lines. Specifically, should I leave the uphill end of the mainline uncapped? Should I drill some holes in the mainline and/or the lateral lines? At the taps? I think I did read that air shouldn't be getting to the lines to prevent bacteria but I don't know why they won't run.

A few of the lateral lines have sap laying in them but apparently stopped up at the "turtles" on the mainline. Most of them simply don't have sap in them at all and when you inspect the taps, they're either dripping horribly slow or not at all, as if an airlock is preventing the sap from even running. For what it's worth, my buckets are out in the open and these lines are in the woods but as warm as it's been, they should be producing a lot more than they are. Help. :(

[maple flats]

NO! do not vent. It lets bacteria in. Buckets will give you more sap but you save in the collection time and reduce the need to climb steep hills to collect.

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks for the advice. If I didn't receive any response, I was planning on venting today. It just seems like I ought to be getting more than I am out of the tubing. I'm going to walk all the lines again this morning and make any repairs that I think may help. Weird.

[northwoods_forestry]

I really would avoid venting if you can as it lets in bacteria and prevents natural vacuum.

Keep in mind that it takes a bit of sap to start pushing the sap into the mainline and to establish natural vacuum. If your sap runs this year are small or just seepers you may not be getting the needed push to start things flowing nicely.

How many taps are you running per lateral? The more the better (20+) I've learned if you are relying on gravity. If you have less than 10 taps on a marginal grade you may have trouble getting sap into the mainline. In fact, depending on your situation, you may be better off running all 29 taps on the same 5/16" and eliminating the 1/2" mainline entirely.

Most tubing setups you see or hear about nowadays are designed for vacuum. Vacuum set ups are usually not the best design for gravity systems!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Have you checked to see if you have the STARS in without wood chips blocking the Ts and mainline STARS. Im with Northwoods gravity needs more taps per line. What is your slope like ?

[GANGGREEN]

My slope for the mainline isn't that great, but probably at least 4-5% grade. Most of the laterals though are pretty good, double that in most cases. As for running more taps per 5/16" line, I thought you were supposed to limit them, I've heard 5-8 taps per line?

I'm going back up this afternoon to put 3 taps into a big boy that I missed and may pick up a couple of 1 tappers along the way. I'll try to run them all into one of the other laterals and see if that helps at all.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[Goggleeye]

I ran my first gravity tubing this year, and while things seemed to start slow, it really picked up in the second run, and ran for about 2 weeks longer than traditional spouts, I presume because of the lack of bacteria. (I'm finished here in Missouri). I had a couple runs of 10-12 trees into barrels, and several runs of 4-7 into buckets, some of which with not much slope, but they all produced as good as or better than the spouts. Most averaged well over a gallon per day when it ran. I have nothing but 5/16 line. In summary, I would, with only 29 taps, use all 5/16 line or have extra collection points at the end of your lateral runs. And give it time. I, too, was concerned after the first run on the gravity tubing seemed weak compared to the others.

[GANGGREEN]

Goggleeye, thanks, I certainly hope it picks up but I'm not going to hold my breath. I can't really get a truck or 4-wheeler to these taps so I ran them down a mainline to one pickup point and tank. In theory, it was a great idea and was going to make my life a lot easier. In reality, I could have gotten more sap by running short taplines straight into buckets and hauling them myself. As I said before, there's some sort of airlock going on and zero natural vacuum. I'm about to call it a year but will try to find someone that knows what they're doing to walk my line with me and tell me how to fix it before next year. I'm thinking of upgrading to a WF Mason 2X4.5' drop flue unit and I'm going to need more sap for next year.

On the plus side, I took my first draw off today and it was the best I've ever made, simply delicious. It was also the first time that I've taken the sap all the way to syrup right in my Half Pint. Cool.

[wnybassman]

Bill, do you think the sap just plain stopped running? I might of had a gallon of sap in my 32 buckets today if I checked them. Might not be anything your doing wrong, just no flow.

[GANGGREEN]

Noel, I have 10 buckets out too and they've been producing fine. Admittedly, they're in the open and the tubing is in the woods but it shouldn't make that much difference.

[farmall h]

Bill, with that many taps you should have run one continuos 5/16 to all the trees like I suggested and use the 1/2 black line to transport the sap to your tank. Unless yor trees are quite a distance apart. That rule of less than ten taps on 5/16 tubing is for vacuum set up. Gravity can have 15 or even 20. It does help to create natural vacuum. Maybe it would be a good idea to consolidate to have 10 or more on a lateral. I would not have bothered with the 1/2". Maybe you could hook your entire laterals into the end of the 1/2 by using a (1) 6 star fitting (cap the ones not used) and run that to your tank. Just a thought if it doesn't require too much work. Otherwise, give it time and it will flow. Are you folks getting a good freeze @ night and warm days?

Bob

[GANGGREEN]

Bob, I can probably consolidate my lines into 3 or 4 of the 5/16" lines with 8 or 10 taps per line but I may not do it until after I call it a season. At least I'd be ready to go for next year.

The weather was perfect around here last week but the last couple of days have been warmish at night and coolish during the day and we've gotten almost zero run. I see snow coming down right now so hopefully it will warm up some tomorrow and we'll get a run.

Thanks for all the advice guys, it's helping and I'm learning.

[farmall h]

No problem Bill. Hope you make enough of the sweet stuff so you can really get "hooked" for next year. Everybody starts without a clue. I know I did. It really helps to visit large and small operations and walk their woods to see different set-ups.:)