Aluminum 10x10 sugarshack - need help with steam control

[Chris W]

MAJOR issues with steam during my test boil. 8" duct fan doesn't come close to handling the steam. The ceiling is only 7ft and the whole shed filled with steam. I was considering upgrading to a powered roof vent (1600 CFM) but then read that may make things worse (hot steam meets cold air). Please help! I'm using 4 steam pans on an immovalbe block arch. I'd need to fabricate a hood somehow for cheap rather than purchase one if that is the recommendation(this is my first year). IF I did build a hood, what's the highest I can have it above the pans to still be effective (I need to transfer sap from pan to pan so I need space to do it). With a hood do I also need a fan? Should I repurpose my 8" duct fan?

I even considered cutting a HUGE flap in the roof to "peel" back to let the steam out (seems drastic but I'm kind of desperate). Of course I'll have leakage issues at that point. How could one do a makeshift copula in an aluminum shed? UGGH. This is causing me major stress. I'm so excited for this season but I need to get over this hurdle.

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated! Thank you!!!

[johnallin]

Chris, you will need some sort of openning in your roof to alow steam to escape out. If you don't have a cupola now, your idea of cutting a "flap" in the roof may be your only good option.

If it gets too steamy in there you may be putting yourself at risk due to limited vision. Pretty sure someone will chime in with a good idea for you though, just hang in there....

[Chris W]

Thanks! Yeah, during my test boil where I only fired the evaporator to about 1/4 of what I expect, if filled the shed with steam in the top 2 1/2 feet where it then escaped out the doors. Visibility was next to zero. Grabbed a house stand fan to temporarily regain visibility.

If others also suggest cutting a flap, how big should I make it? Is there a ratio of GPH to CFM or GPH, GPH to exhaust opening that would help in determining how big I should make the opening? I'm sure one could calculate such dimensions and CFM.

Thanks again!

[johnallin]

Chris, rule of thumb is to make the area at least as big as the surface area of your pan(s).

Can you cut out a "flap" and use the ridge of the shed roof as the hinge, then lower when you're done and cover with a tarp to keep weather out? Get it as close to the top as you can and I think you will be happy with the results.

[Chris W]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of doing. I think I may cut the flap, hinge at the ridge. Then possibly use duct "joiners??" (for rectangular ducts that join two sections together) to close the flap and reconnect it with the rest of the roof. I'll still use tarp for weather protection. So you think if I cut the flap I won't need anything else (i.e steam hood)? Will I still battle condensation issues on the inside of the roof (just curious)?

So then I start thinking if I'm going to cut a flap, should I just figure out a way to do a cupola instead?

[Chris W]

I'm still also very interested to know what the maximum "gap" can be between the pans and the steam hood for the hood to still be effective.

[vtsnowedin]

Reading your thread I can't see what you have for a sugarshack. What is the wall height and is the roof a shed single pitch or 5/12 pitch or a salt box? You might be able to just open up the gable ends and leave a door open to create enough flow to clear the steam out so you can see. Tell us more and you'll get better answers.

[Chris W]

Reading your thread I can't see what you have for a sugarshack. What is the wall height and is the roof a shed single pitch or 5/12 pitch or a salt box? You might be able to just open up the gable ends and leave a door open to create enough flow to clear the steam out so you can see. Tell us more and you'll get better answers.

It's an aluminum utility/tool shed approximately 10'x10' with VERY low ceiling (about 7ft) much like you could by at a local home improvement store. It's a very shallow roof so probably 5/12. I have 2 sliding doors and have them both wide open. With it being a shallow height, the steam fills up the shed quickly. It does try to escape through the sliding doors but visibility is near zero.

More details. This is my first year. I built a bock arch with 5 steam pans in my tool shed. I've got 30 taps in now and another 25-30 going in this weekend. I put in an 8" duct booster with 250CFM thinking it would handle the steam and was grossly mistaken. So now I'm scrambling.

The debate of naturally venting vs. powered exhaust has me a bit confused now. I read on here that with powered exhaust, the hot dry air will be exhausted leaving cold wet in the shack (due to the cold intake air meeting the hot moist air- where the hot air escapes and the cold moist air condenses). Isn't it also the same for naturally exhausting the air say through a cupola or very large vent? Cold air intake is needed in order for the steam/hot air to naturally vent.

Thanks again for all advice and feedback!!!

[valleyman]

Hi Chris,
I have a 4 pan block evap. in a way too small of a shelter I put up. The back is open and I have a fan pushing the steam out the back. My first boil was without the fan and it was impossible at times to be in there. Maybe if you were to put up some studs on the back wall and frame a large" window" and cut your area out of the rear wall and hing it to the framing.

Here's a pic of mine mini sugar shack. Hopefully it'll further your problem solving.

[vtsnowedin]

:o That is very tight and I don't know if you can make it work without some major sheet metal cutting. I'd cut out all of both gable ends that I could without weakening the structure and open a roof flap/cupola as others have suggested. One thing with a fan is that it often works best to blow the cold air in at floor level rather then trying to blow the steam out at roof line. Hope this helps.

[Chris W]

I don't mind cutting sheet metal. So you are suggesting cutting both gable ends and a flap in the roof?

If I cut a flap in the roof, which side would be better? The evaporator is to the right of center. Is it best to hinge at the peak and cut the flap on the right side or the left side of the peak? I drew a quick picture of my setup. Would you think I should cut the flap in position A or B? And I also drew the gable cut that you suggested.

[Chris W]

I ask which side because I'm wondering if it is best to do the left side so that #1, no rain gets in over the evap, and #2 the steam can roll up the right side roof and right out the left.

[whalems]

I would cut the gable end and frame w/ wood an area big enough to put 2 box fans on. and boil w/ your doors open. That way no leaky roof to worry about and you could use the sheet metal you cut out to cover the hole in the off season. just a thought good luck. Mike

[vtsnowedin]

Well if you take it one step at a time you could do both gable ends first. Then add fans and experiment with them. In, out, high, low. Doors open when boiling is a for sure. Then if that still doesn't cut it try a roof flap. I can't picture what your ridge cap and the structure of what would be a ridge pole in a wooden building is in yours but I would keep all of your flap on one side of the ridge and start far enough down so the repair piece can slide in under the ridge cap. If you can find similar metal roofing a section six inches longer then the piece you cut out would slide in under the ridge cap and overlap the bottom of the hole. Get clever with it and you can rig it up to be easy open and close hatch with a prop stick that folds out of the way when you close the flap. Some of these metal building rely on the tensile strength of the sheet metal as a structural member of the building. You might have to frame the hole with angle iron to take up the load your flap is carrying now. You wouldn't notice a problem now but the first winter with a heavy snow load will show you if you cut out to much. I'd do side A and keep the rain out of the pans even if you have to boil in the rain.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Chris I would think long and hard about the flap idea. My concern is the wind. 1) if it gets to windy it could sail on you. 2) even a slight wind will be directed down into the shack and make life a living hell. You need to be able to regulate the doors so when the wind does blow you can tweek the doors to suck the steam out. Plus you need incoming air to replace what leaves. I would say $100.00 at HD for studs, coragated sheet metal and rope and you could make a coupla quick and easy with doors that open out not up.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Chris leave the blowers out of the equation.

[maple flats]

I see way too many suggestions. I believe the best answer by far is to make some sort of hood. then just cut a hole big enough to vent the steam stack outside. A 2x6 commonly uses 6", 2x8- 8" and even a 3x8 often uses 10". Even a makeshift steam hood will eliminate steam in the shed.

[Pete S]

:o That is very tight and I don't know if you can make it work without some major sheet metal cutting. I'd cut out all of both gable ends that I could without weakening the structure and open a roof flap/cupola as others have suggested. One thing with a fan is that it often works best to blow the cold air in at floor level rather then trying to blow the steam out at roof line. Hope this helps.

For what it's worth I would agree. With the type of structure you have the gables may be your best bet.

Remember, you can always make the hole bigger.

[BarrelBoiler]

chris, are those sheds put together with self taping screws? could you take a gable end or roof panel out that way.
lots of suggestions:) here's one more take some gable end out on the down wind side(if there is one) and open the doors on the up wind side to create and natural draft. this might work even if your kiddecorner to the wind but probably won't if your direct sideways goodluck

[Chris W]

The panels were attached via self tapping screws. I ended up unscrewing the roof panel at the peak (where 2 sections meet) and raised it at the peak and put some left over aluminum gutter guards in to fill the gap. it works well. I'm going to put a piece of flashing on the panel I raised so that it extends a little beyond the other panel it used to meet up with to help prevent rain from getting in. When the season is done, I'll rescrew it all back together.

Thanks for all of the advice.

[gar]

Be careful with box fans! If enuogh moisture gets in the motor sparks could fly.

[Chris W]

Be careful with box fans! If enuogh moisture gets in the motor sparks could fly.

Agree. With this setup having lots of venting at the peak I didn't need any fans. Fresh air comes in through the doors and the steam exhausts at the peak where I raised the roof and put the gutter guards.

[vtsnowedin]

OK now that you have a good solution to the steam problem tell us how your new arch is working and how your season is going so far.

[Chris W]

Thanks for asking! :D

The history of my evaporator is in this thread:
" First Time, Block Arch, want door and steam hood advice, w/pics "

but I'd be glad to summarize. :) The block arch has worked great! The steam pans have been good but I'm definitely getting a real pan next year (WAY too much transferring). The washer top and door worked beautifully. I think I got close to 7GPH but I didn't run it full bore (although I had all 4 pans boiling) and I'll take better metrics next boil.

My syrup was a bit darker (deep amber). We had some that night and it tasted great. I cooked until I had no sap left then transferred sap from 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (backfilling with water). By the time I had syrup in pan 1, it was pretty dark. Any suggestions to get it lighter. I'm considering evenly distributing pan 1 sap across the others throughout the boil. Will that even make a difference? I suppose I could take off near syrup throughout the boil, then batch it all and finish but that seems like way too much work just to get a bit lighter syrup.

The sap flow has been SLOW the past 3 days and the warm spell will continue for another 4 days (it has me nervous). I've been pleased with using tubing from my taps to 5 gal buckets. I've got some "reserve" trees that I didn't tap that I may end up tapping when the cold spell comes back in about a week. Is this a good idea or no? I'm going to be boiling again this weekend and can't wait!!!

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the arch and I owe so much of that to the great information and people on this forum. I can't say enough great things about it.

[Jerome]

stop working so hard, take some copper tube 1/2 inch bend it in a u that fits from the bottom of one pan over the divider into the next. Fill it with sap when starting you pans by adding sap to the back pan it will siphon up ans into the next and so on. I used this method for years and loved it.

[vtsnowedin]

Thanks for asking! :D

The history of my evaporator is in this thread:
" First Time, Block Arch, want door and steam hood advice, w/pics "

but I'd be glad to summarize. :) The block arch has worked great! The steam pans have been good but I'm definitely getting a real pan next year (WAY too much transferring). The washer top and door worked beautifully. I think I got close to 7GPH but I didn't run it full bore (although I had all 4 pans boiling) and I'll take better metrics next boil.

My syrup was a bit darker (deep amber). We had some that night and it tasted great. I cooked until I had no sap left then transferred sap from 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (backfilling with water). By the time I had syrup in pan 1, it was pretty dark. Any suggestions to get it lighter. I'm considering evenly distributing pan 1 sap across the others throughout the boil. Will that even make a difference? I suppose I could take off near syrup throughout the boil, then batch it all and finish but that seems like way too much work just to get a bit lighter syrup.

The sap flow has been SLOW the past 3 days and the warm spell will continue for another 4 days (it has me nervous). I've been pleased with using tubing from my taps to 5 gal buckets. I've got some "reserve" trees that I didn't tap that I may end up tapping when the cold spell comes back in about a week. Is this a good idea or no? I'm going to be boiling again this weekend and can't wait!!!

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the arch and I owe so much of that to the great information and people on this forum. I can't say enough great things about it.
If you have the time and the wood and the weather it is always a good idea to tap more trees.:) Your syrup may not be as dark as you think. Any syrup looks darker in large quantities. Remember the bottles in a test kit are just an inch and a quarter thick out to out and the layer of syrup inside that the light is passing through is about an inch thick. Look at the same syrup through a quart mason jar and your looking at four times the syrup hence four times the light loss. Playing with moving sap from pan to pan won't amount to much. What counts is the freshness and quality of the sap and the total time it takes to get it to syrup. The longer the boil and the more times it goes from hot to cold and the amount of ash and smoke that blows into the pans are the things that degrade the color. I'd keep all the back pans full enough so a scorch line doesn't develop and boil as fast as you can.

[Chris W]

stop working so hard, take some copper tube 1/2 inch bend it in a u that fits from the bottom of one pan over the divider into the next. Fill it with sap when starting you pans by adding sap to the back pan it will siphon up ans into the next and so on. I used this method for years and loved it.

I would think the rolling boil and nucleation would cause bubbles to rise to the top and break the siphon. Restarting then would be next to impossible with boiling sap.

[BarrelBoiler]

teh old time evaportators used siphons someone back in the summer had a picture (illistration) of one and there was a lively discussoin about them

the thing i remember about the discussion was that some sort of cup on the bottom of the legs helps with the boiling bubbles breaking the siphon

jerome, do you use more than one siphon per pan?