A draw off controled by density instead of temp

[michiganfarmer]

I was talking to a freind who is an electrician, buys syrup from me, wants help and see the operation, and is going to do some wireing for me int eh new saphouse.

he asked how we tell when the syrup is reasy. I told him wiht a temperature controlled draw off, and of course spot checks with a hydrometer. He asked why don't the draw off just use a density test of some sorts to make that determination. that would eliminate adjusting the temp everyday for barometric pressure.

I thoguht, " thats a great idea".

Any thoguhts?

[markct]

its real hard to measure density of a rapidly bubbling and splashing liquid. and temp probes and controllers are likely alot cheaper, and its realy not too big of a deal to set it daily is it?

[Clan Delaney]

Yeah, I think a density-based system would need to be able to read the level on a hydrometer, probably by way of a small camera. Keeping it steady would be a problem, and density is still tied to temp. I'm all for trying something new, but there's auto drawoffs now that automatically adjust for pressure - so, no need even to set that each day.

[smitty76]

the density is realivent to temp right. the density changes as the temp changes, does it not?????

[maplehound]

Keep in mind as welll that your syrup changes in temp. at the draw off wich changes the density each time. That is why there is a hot test and a cold test on our hydrometer, as well as why some have a temp probe to help you compensate for that.

[Toblerone]

Density measurement is relative to temperature, but over a fairly wide rage. If you are boiling, the temperature will be held fairly steady, and the temperature and density measurements should converge at one point. I think.

What about measuring the refraction of a laser between two points of a known distance? You could lower a forked probe with a laser on one end and a detector on the other end into the syrup and measure how much the laser is refracted. (Patent pending.... kidding).

[maplehound]

If you think it will work. GO FOR IT!!!!!!!! I sure don't even understand what you are talking about with those lasers.

[Toblerone]

Hey! Maybe the laser could even determine grade at the same time! Grade is just percentage light transmittance of the syrup vs. pure water. Hmmm.

[smitty76]

Tob, you have already said too much. I thinkyou have something there(at least the refraction between two pionts). make it happen and reep the reward. I like the laser idea.:D :) :D :)

[Brian Ryther]

http://www2.emersonprocess.com/en-US/brands/micromotion/density-viscosity-meters/7845-7847-liquid-concentration-density-meters/Pages/index.aspx

Sorry. These are not new. They used to use radiation called "k-rays" to detect density. Now they use vibration to detect density. Very expensive, plus you need the controls and computers to operate them. A system installed would probally cost more than a Force 5.

[Toblerone]

I, too, did a web search and found expensive, industrial density controls. We're just having fun dreaming of a cheap version.

[michiganfarmer]

its real hard to measure density of a rapidly bubbling and splashing liquid. and temp probes and controllers are likely alot cheaper, and its realy not too big of a deal to set it daily is it?

no it isnt. I just thguht it was a neat idea.

...and in the box that the draw off draws off from, there isnt any bubbling or splashing anyway

[michiganfarmer]

Yeah, I think a density-based system would need to be able to read the level on a hydrometer, probably by way of a small camera. Keeping it steady would be a problem, and density is still tied to temp. I'm all for trying something new, but there's auto drawoffs now that automatically adjust for pressure - so, no need even to set that each day.

interesting. I did not knwo that

[michiganfarmer]

Keep in mind as welll that your syrup changes in temp. at the draw off wich changes the density each time. That is why there is a hot test and a cold test on our hydrometer, as well as why some have a temp probe to help you compensate for that.

I guess what I meant was a sugar percentage test. not a density test.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

no it isnt. I just thguht it was a neat idea.

...and in the box that the draw off draws off from, there isnt any bubbling or splashing anyway

Sure there is. When the syrup gets near draw off temp, the foam begins to flow into the draw off box. When it flows through the hole and around the corner it is pretty close and when the whole drsw off box is full of foam, you are probably over density.

[michiganfarmer]

Sure there is. When the syrup gets near draw off temp, the foam begins to flow into the draw off box. When it flows through the hole and around the corner it is pretty close and when the whole drsw off box is full of foam, you are probably over density.

oh yeah! thats right.

sheesh my memory is terrible