Is there more than one type of sugar maple?

[maple sapper]

Around me I have two types of maples with leaves that resemble/are sugar maple leaves. One is what I believe to be a true sugar maple with grey long strip looking peeling bark. The other has more of a rope/braided looking bark. The rope looking one is the one in question. The leaves have the same look with rounded lobes rather then saw toothed like reds. What type of maple is that?

[ejmaple]

i beleive what your describing is a norway maple. they have nearly the same leaves as a sugar maple but the bark is different. the bark is almost like that of a ash tree. i tap a few norways, they produce alot of sap that have almost as high sugar content as sugars do. tap them!!!

[maple flats]

A sugar maple at this time of year is easy to identify. If the tree has opposite branching it is a maple (in the maple family). You need to look in the upper branches because most opposites get broken off in time. By opposite I mean the central leader or branch has a branch coming off on opposite sides every time (at least they form that way, most get lost by damage). Once you have identified a maple, the sugar is the only one that has buds in this time of year that come to a sharp point. These points (forming buds) will slowly grow as they get ready to open as new leaves. This is not to say any other maple is not good for syrup, some are good, some are fair, all will make syrup. It's just a matter of the sugar content of the sap. The buds of all other maples look different.

[Squaredeal]

To be clear, Ash (Fraxinus spp). also have opposite branching. Once you learn to recognize the differences: buds, as mentioned, bark, etc. they are esy to distinguish. Still, I have seen more than a few ash with taps in them.

[H. Walker]

The leading bud on a sugar maple will stick right out from the stem where as the Norway maple the leading bud is sunk back into the stem and protected. Kind of like a insee and outsee belly button. That was a quote from a $120 per hour forester!

[gdtowne]

If most of your sugar maples have wide, silver/gray plates on the larger, mature trees, those are your 'typical' sugar maple. When smaller, the bark is often pale gray, and smooth. However, there is a tremendous amount of variation from tree to tree; this is true in nearly any tree species, and especially true in maples. There is an alternative, atypical sugar maple however. It is referred to as a black maple (I believe it is referred to as Acer saccharum var. Nigra. I believe I have some at my sugarbush, but very few, and I haven't positively identified them yet. The bark darker, and more characteristic of white ash, or Norway maple. It has deeper grooves, rather than flat plates. There is some difference between the leaves (although slight), but I can't seem to remember what it is now. Additionally, I haven't found one around larger than around 16".

Additionally, it is not recomended to make syrup out of Norway maple. Their sap is generally cloudy white, and does not make quality syrup. Often though, it isn't a problem, as it is often only found as an escapee near urban areas. I personally would recommend killing any example of this maple you come across in the wild. They are proving to be quite invasive in some areas.

Just my understanding,

Gerry

[foursapssyrup]

Additionally, it is not recomended to make syrup out of Norway maple. Their sap is generally cloudy white, and does not make quality syrup. Often though, it isn't a problem, as it is often only found as an escapee near urban areas. I personally would recommend killing any example of this maple you come across in the wild. They are proving to be quite invasive in some areas.

Just my understanding,

Gerry


my forester actually told me the same thing about the norway's. we have a small grove of them on our land (roughly 2 acres) and the forester told us to start there with our cutting this year(american tree farm), and too clear out as many as we felt comfortable with. we took down about 12 and planted some sugars in their place. never had any intentions of tapping the norways, was always told they are bad for syrup...

happy boiling!

[KenWP]

One of these days we have to have a definate idea on Norway maples. Anything I have says no some say yes. Good thing I don't have any so I don't have to find out the hard way.
Sugar maples around here seem to grow lichens. The others don't. Sort of like real sugar makers have beards and the others don't.

[PerryW]

There is something floating around on the internet that says Norway Maple sap is milky white, but this appears to be false. There seem to be quite a few people here who are tapping them and the sap is clear and the sugar content good.

[ejmaple]

i'll have to put a bucket on one of my norways and take a photo of the sap, and than one of a hydrometer reading for all to see.

[Frank Ivy]

There is an alternative, atypical sugar maple however. It is referred to as a black maple (I believe it is referred to as Acer saccharum var. Nigra. I believe I have some at my sugarbush, but very few, and I haven't positively identified them yet. The bark darker, and more characteristic of white ash, or Norway maple. It has deeper grooves, rather than flat plates. There is some difference between the leaves (although slight), but I can't seem to remember what it is now. Additionally, I haven't found one around larger than around 16".

Gerry

Around here, there are lots of black maples. My friend has a wonderful old black that is probably 3 feet in diameter.

The easiest way to tell a black from a sugar is to look at the leaves. Distinct difference. The sugar - you all know the sugar. The black has three obvious lobes and a couple of really small ones near the stem. The sugar has three obvious lobes and two small, but clear, lobes near the stem. Even more distinctly, the black leaf is curled slightly down all around the edge, As if you took a flat, regular sugar maple leaf and then went all around the outside edge and just turned it down a bit. Very obvious once you see it. Sugars are crisp and flat or only slightly curved - blacks have prominently weeping edges.

The bark is darker as well.

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Norway's here run clear, big difference in the Norway's compared to black here are the size of the leafs on them, they are huge compared to any other maple leaf we have here that Ive seen. My dad taps about 5 big old Norway's in town were he lives, he makes some good tasting syrup from them on his camping stove. none in my bush though.. just mainly reds and a few blacks, box elder, yellow Birch.. ive only ever tapped the yellow birch one season just to see if sap would flow, which it did. we mixed in with the rest of the sap, just not many birches here so i wont hit them on the tapping dance anymore.

[MainelyMaple]

If i remember correctly from my dendro course a couple of years ago, if you break the petiole off of the leaf on a norway maple you will see a milky substance on the tip where it was attached to the leaf, on a sugar maple you won't see the sap on the petiole.

[mcsap]

MainelyMaple is right about the milky white sap when you pull a leaf off a Norway. I always thought that was the easiest way to tell them apart. I'll have to check out the difference in the buds, hadn't heard that key before.

[red maples]

another way to tell norway maple is the bark is very different almost a cordory look to it. also thousands of seeds coming up this time of year. thats why its considered an invasive species. Reseeds very easy, grows very quickly, and reproduces early. It can wipe out forests with other trees in it and take it over. even other maples!!!

[Brokermike]

many Norways around here seem to have a girdling root, so their long term survival is limited

[BuoyChaser]

We have quite a few Norways as well here in Northwood, New Hampshire. Need to take inventory this spring/summer to inventory. Any good means for marking and identifying these trees besides paint marks or fluorescent tape ties?

[Michael Greer]

Some of the villages in northern New York have planted them as a street-side tree. It's a terrible choice here because they tend to split wide open in extremely cold years. They're not very strong, and are too easily wind damaged. They make a soft maple saw log of no particular value, and don't have the density to make high value firewood. Don't let this last note stop you from cutting them however as they are very, very heavy re-seeders, and will outrun just about anything else.
Folks plant the ****ed things 'cause they grow up fast and make a pleasant shape in the open yard.,,however they spring up madly and will take over any little untended spot, and then grow into all sorts of unstable leaning shapes that will eventually fall on your garage.
Cut them down, and while you're out looking for sugar wood, cut all the box-elders you can find too.

[lastwoodsman]

We raise thousands of Norway maples over 25 cultivars and I have looked at them for 40 years in nursery production.
I have never tapped one or looked at it from that point of view.
I do know the sap in the summer if you break off a branch or pluck off a leaf it is a milky white sticky sap.
How it looks in the spring I do not know but am going out to check as they are still at the point they could be running around here.
Woodsman

[40to1]

Poor me. Raised in a leafy suburb with Norway Maples planted everywhere. I thought they were all sugar maples - there was nothing to compare it to.
Norway Maple seeds are big and spread wide! As kids we'd split them in half at the stem, peel them open a bit where it was tacky and stick them on our noses. We thought we looked like Pinocchio.
It wasn't until I looked into sugaring that I saw a sugar maple seed with its horseshoe shape. (sigh..... so ignorant for so long.)

One thought about Norway Maples: the bark reminds me of an oversized cantaloupe rind.

[Brian Ledoux]

I too have read all these contradictory posts on Norway Maples and wondered if I should bother tapping the norway maples on my grandfather's property. I can say from first hand experience after having tapped them and made syrup from them, that the sap is not cloudy and not white. It is exactly the same as sap from a sugar maple. The good norways I tapped with big crowns run really well. My best sap producing trees is one of my big norway maples.
Also I truly think that the syrup they make is outstanding. I have never heard anything but very positive reviews about the taste of my syrup.

As far as sugar content, it was the same as my sugar maples. I tested the sap from the norways separately to see if was any better or worse.

[220 maple]

I have a Norway and a Silver in my yard, Norway creates excellent shade, I tapped both 10 years ago and collected a couple gallon of sap to boil on the kitchen stove to show my young sons that the clear water would turn into a yellow-Golden color, didn't have enough sap to produce any syrup. I took them to our sugar shack the next spring for the real stuff.

Mark 220 Maple