tapping norway mapes?

[syrupdreamer]

i have read some conflicting stories on tapping norways. i have an area with several mature trees i could tap but i am unsure if i should.

[3rdgen.maple]

There is only one way to find out. Give it a shot and keep the sap separate and boil it down.

[40to1]

The Maple Syrup Producers Manual cites a study (page 23) where Norway Maples had quality sap with sugar contents close to that of Sugar Maples.
This runs contrary to the usual received wisdom about Norway maples.

3rdgen makes a good point: try it and let us know. It would be interesting to read what you find out...

[PerryW]

I looked into tapping Norway Maples a couple years ago and also got conflicting info.

The bottom line was that if the sap was milky, it was not suitable for maple syrup production.

[ejmaple]

i tap a few large norways that were planted at least 50 years ago. i've never seen any milky sap, granted i do pull my taps alittle early, no later than april 1, due to work. but they have always produced alot of sap that starts at 3%. one of my new bushes (field line) has a few big guys, i'll have to keep an eye on milky sap near the end, if any will turn milky i beleive this bush will due to its south open exposher.

[Bucket Head]

Wow. Three percent from a soft maple? I was always told they had no better than half of what a sugar maple put out- 1% sugar. Same with Red maples. Everyone said you would have to boil twice the amount of sap for a gallon of syrup.

Steve

[PerryW]

Are Norway Maples considered soft? I guess I never cut down a Norway maple, but they look more like a sugar maple than a red maple. The bark almost looks a little like an Ash Tree.

They are considered an exotic species here in NH and I believe they were trying to discourage people from planting them.

[3rdgen.maple]

I was always told a red, silver, norway etc is a soft maple and a sugar maple a hard maple. I think it was the old timers that found it easier to classify them in 2 different groups than the true names around here. Just like they all said to never tap anything that was not a hard maple cause the sugar content was not worth it and produced dark syrup. Took a few years to convince my dad to tap softs and it wasn't until I took over that I tapped them to prove it could be done. I got some softs(reds) that have better sugar content than my hards. That is one of the great things about maple it seems it is a never ending learning process. I said it before and will say it again leave no maple behind if you got them tap them.

[Frank Ivy]

Are Norway Maples considered soft? I guess I never cut down a Norway maple, but they look more like a sugar maple than a red maple. The bark almost looks a little like an Ash Tree.

They are considered an exotic species here in NH and I believe they were trying to discourage people from planting them.

I love Norways. "Exotic species." Please. It's a beautiful tree, it produces wonderful, dense shade, its leaves persist into the late fall and it pops out early in the spring, it's bark is very attractive (like Ash), it is strong and majestic.

What's the issue? It may displace indigenous trees?

Meh.

We did that to the Indians and nobody seems too upset about that.

[3rdgen.maple]

Frank I think the problems is that norways spread at alot faster rate and tend to choke out the other maples competing for the same space.

[KenWP]

I wonder also if it is not old wives tales. I do not think anybody around here taps a red or definatly not a silver except me. My neighbour across the road could not believe I was getting syrup from my silvers. He really freaked when he found out I was tapping a box elder. I have one thats probbably 4 feet across at the bottom. Gives loads of sap.

[SilverLeaf]

He really freaked when he found out I was tapping a box elder. I have one thats probbably 4 feet across at the bottom. Gives loads of sap.

This is off-topic, but it piqued my interest. Ken - what do you do with the sap from that boxelder? Do you keep it separate from the rest of your sap, or do you mix it all together? I'm thinking of trying out a few boxelders (or what do they call them around here - "Manitoba Maples"?) for fun this year, but not sure if I should mix it all with the rest or not.

[Dill]

They are considered an exotic species here in NH and I believe they were trying to discourage people from planting them.

Yes a few years ago, planning boards wanted Norway's planted in parking lots etc, because of the quick growth rate.

[SilverLeaf]

Yes a few years ago, planning boards wanted Norway's planted in parking lots etc, because of the quick growth rate.

funny how that works - it seems 90% of the species that get put on the "noxious" list were once touted as being a great thing. Then they escape and get out of control and everyone goes "oh $#@$!".

I've got some Amur Maple bushes that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world. But at least in Minnesota they're on the "Noxious species" list because their seeds are prolific and so they escape and start taking over grasslands.

[softmaple]

i tap mostly Norways. they are great sap providers. the average sap content that comes from them are 2.5%. they leak like crazy too even on questionable days. I have never seen milky sap come a tap hole. if you break a full grown leaf off then some milky white sap comes out but that is in the summer. my syrup tastes awsome and my patrons keep coming back.

[PerryW]

Softmaple ,

That's great to know. I was the one who posted about milky sap. I did internet research 2 years ago about Norways and some info said they were not tappable because they had milky sap; but others said it was not milky. But because none of the info was from sugarmakers, I didn't know who to believe.

Now that you posted, I know that Norways makes good syrup.

[softmaple]

Also I mix all my sap. Norway, Silver, Red, and Sugar it dosn't make a difference. it all tastes good.

[maple flats]

Never tapped one but Norway is indeed a soft maple. Basically the hard soft category is in the growth rate. Harder species grow slower and make a more dense growth ring. As I understand it most if not all make sugar, the noted ones generally make higher sugar % but no one would hesitate to collect 2.5 or 3 sap. As for Box Elder, no need to separate it, it IS a maple. Other names for it are Canadian Maple or Ash Leaf Maple. It is a true maple.

[DanE.]

Got to be careful what you read. in one of the other post on tree identification there was a link that took you to a web site that said reds have bitter sap.

from: http://www.waterfordva-wca.org/nature-garden/trees-maples.htm

"Differences:
The way to tell Red Maple and Sugar Maple apart is by the bark. The real difference is that the Red Maple has lighter and smoother bark then the Sugar Maple. Also the Red Maple has a bitter sap as compared to the Sugar Maple."

Not sure if they were referring to summer sap. but we know that many people tap reds and the sap is just fine and make good syrup.

Dane.

[tylerj]

This is off-topic, but it piqued my interest. Ken - what do you do with the sap from that boxelder? Do you keep it separate from the rest of your sap, or do you mix it all together? I'm thinking of trying out a few boxelders (or what do they call them around here - "Manitoba Maples"?) for fun this year, but not sure if I should mix it all with the rest or not.

There ya go... I learned something new today. I didn't know a boxelder was a Manitoba Maple. Those things grow like weeds! I found this bit of info on its sap from ohio state university extension;

"Maple" syrup can also be made from the sap of boxelder, which technically is a maple (it belongs to the maple genus), but boxelder sap should not normally be combined with sap from other maples. Boxelder syrup can have a heavy, almost sorghum-like flavor that may be perceived as somewhat bitter compared to syrup made from other maples. Good boxelder syrup, however, is quite palatable, and is produced and marketed in parts of North America where other maples are not common."

I'm not sure what sorghum is though or what it may taste like lol.

[RileySugarbush]

There are several hobby producers around here that tap only silvers and make lots of great tasting syrup. Early in the season I think they have been seeing higher sap flows and sugar content at least as high as my sugar maples. They do bud much earlier and then it tastes terrible.

[SilverLeaf]

"boxelder sap should not normally be combined with sap from other maples. "



That kind of matches vague recollections of what I've heard. Which is why I'm really interested to hear what Ken's experience with boxelder sap is. Because if there's one thing that this thread is showing, it's that very often the "official" line of received wisdom (i.e. "Only tap hard maples", "Norway sap is milky", "red maple sap is bitter") doesn't always match up with reality...!

[C.Wilcox]

"Maple" syrup can also be made from the sap of boxelder, which technically is a maple (it belongs to the maple genus), but boxelder sap should not normally be combined with sap from other maples. Boxelder syrup can have a heavy, almost sorghum-like flavor that may be perceived as somewhat bitter compared to syrup made from other maples. Good boxelder syrup, however, is quite palatable, and is produced and marketed in parts of North America where other maples are not common."

I'm not sure what sorghum is though or what it may taste like lol.

I've tapped boxelders for a number of years now. I've tried both keeping the sap separate and mixing it with maple sap and the only difference is taste. There is no chemical reason to keep them separate. The sap won't turn into toxic goo if you mix them, nor will it spontaneously erupt into flame or anything else. Boxelder syrup is DEFINITELY not the same flavor as maple syrup. It tends to be a much heavier flavor and I think comparing it to sorghum (molasses) is pretty accurate, although the first batch or two of the year is almost more like honey mixed with butterscotch and is worth a try if you've never had it. It appears almost orange in color. The last batch of the year is more like road tar and can be avoided without any risk of culinary depravation. Like I said before, I have mixed it with maple sap and the result is a good flavored syrup that no one I've offered it to has turned down yet. If you've got box elders give it a try. They're not a bad substitute. My wife actually prefers it and insists that I make some for her every year.

[maple flats]

Back when I made my very first syrup, the kids and I put out about 6 or 8 box elder taps and 3 sugar maple. We boiled it down just on the wood stove we use for heating the house. I taste as good as any all sugar maple as far as we could tell. Now that I am doing much more I do not tap box elder anymore. I never had any reading on sugar % but I am sure it is much lower than sugar maple sap on my yard trees. Back then the box elders were also yard trees, we no longer have any, they were removed to plant lots of fruit trees.

[KenWP]

This is off-topic, but it piqued my interest. Ken - what do you do with the sap from that boxelder? Do you keep it separate from the rest of your sap, or do you mix it all together? I'm thinking of trying out a few boxelders (or what do they call them around here - "Manitoba Maples"?) for fun this year, but not sure if I should mix it all with the rest or not.

I did both with my boxelder sap. I boiled it alone when they were hardley running and then when they picked up made a batch of just boxelder syrup. The sap has a slight bitter taste which is hard to discribe. It never seemed to bother the rest of the syrup and since it's dark didn't change the colour much.
I call them boxelders in respect to our Americian cousins so that they don't need a dictionary everytime I type something. Out west I never heard the term boxelder just Manitoba Maple and they grow like weeds out there in places also. Never heard of anybody except in manitoba ever tapping them.
When you boil the sap alone it makes a lighter syrup even with batch boiling and the nitre is white and mucky like wet mashed potatoes. Tastes just fine to me. I found that a couple of my off flavour syrups batches taste better after being filtered and bottled and sat for awhile.
I grew up eating wild mushrooms and berrys and you name it so tapping anything that gives sap makes sense to me. I use a berry that grows around here that people didn't even consider edible till I made jelly with it. I have several survival manuals that have lots of weird foods in them.

As to sugar content it usually seemed to be around 1.7% at the lowest. I had maples that only went that also. My silvers all did better at 3% then the regular maples did. If I had more they would have holes in them no problem.

[Saw Filer]

As far as the "hard maple," "soft maple" thing is concerned I always thought these were lumbermens terms refering to the hardness of the lumber produced from the different species.In the old days in the mills there were only two kinds of maple.

george

[40to1]

It's interesting to read that Norway maples can have high sugar percentages.
Then it occurred to me that Norway maples were planted primarily by municipalities as ornamental/shade trees (I read somewhere that Norways can withstand compaction (the weight of roadside traffic) better than indigenous varieties).
Perhaps Norway maples were getting the best placements: suburban lawns and new subdivisions with no competition or shade.
Like any field or roadside sugar maple, Norway maples too can produce well. It would be interesting to see how the sugar percentages of a Norway maple would fare in a forest.

[03weim]

I have tapped norway maples in the past the only thing I noticed was they seamed to stop running earlier than sugar maples, never off tasting syrup or milky sap

[Maplesedge]

I've tapped Norway, Japenese Red Maple, Swamp Maple, Sugar Maple, some kind of Maple whose leaves look like the classic Sugar Maple shape but were still just slightly sawtoothed so I'm not sure, and a couple other Maples I'm just not knowledable enough to know what the heck they really are, and they all gave good sap, and they all ran clear, and the syrup was always light. One Sugar Maple does consistently put out more sap than all the others. The Norway was hugh and comes in a close second, about 2 gallons of sap a day when it gets warm and wet. I always stop before April, so I've never seen milkiness. Tapped a big Black Birch once, but kept that separate.

[BC Birch Tapper]

I read an article at university over 25 years ago which compared all of the maples. We tap white birch and on Vancouver Island they tap Bigleaf maple. I've also had manitoba maple syrup and they're all tasty.

All of them seem to be somewhat different in their sugar content, end product and sap timing. Everything I've had so far have been tasty,and lots of times its more of a case that sugar maple doesn't grow everywhere and people are using what they have in their own backyards. :cool:

[Brian Ledoux]

I too had wondered about whether you can tap norway maples due to other posts on here. I went with the advice below and just tapped them to find out. I had 5 pretty big norways (30 inch diameter) on my grnadfather's property that I tapped. They were mostly in the sun with not a lot of other trees around. They leaked sap like mad. were my best producers. They ran on days when no mother trees ran. No cloudy sap at all. I had one day at the very end where one bucket on one of the trees produced pretty bright yellow sap, which I discarded. The finished syrup I made with these trees tasted excellent. Some of the best syrup I have tasted and I have been trying as much syrup as I can since last year.

[MapleMounder]

What do you guys know about black maples? I only tap sugar maples but they are hard to find in Northern Illinois. I have planted "Green Mountain" sugars on our farm but I was talking to a landscaper today about some more green mountains and he suggested black maples. He said they were a sugars "kissing Cousin". He said it is still a sugar and alot or guys in New England plant them for syrup. He said they produce more sap with higher sugar content. Is tha true?

[KenWP]

Black maples here are considered sugar maples. They are the only two that most Quebecois will tap. the rest they consider as fire wood.

[TF Maple]

I have 4 trees in my bush I think are black maples and they produce a lot of sap for the small trees they are. I haven't tested the sap to see if it is high or low but they are supposed to be the next best to a sugar maple. The bark on my trees looks like someone burned the tree or rubbed charcoal on them, really black so I assume they are black maples, haven't tried to positively ID them yet.