Comparisons of Wet/Dry manifolds

[sugarstone]

What are the pro's/con's of the two variations (that I know of anyways) of wet/dry lateral mainline manifolds? The one pictured in the Leader catalogue vs. the one on p.107 of the Maple Syrup Prod. Manual.
Con of the Leader example I could think of is the fact that its a rigid set-up. The wet/dry lines can't flex up and down too much without stressing the fittings.
A "Pro" would be it appears it may be a little less money.
...trying to decide which one to go with here....help me out. So far, I like the Manual example because it gives me more options for distance from wet or dry lines and ability to flex a little if a tree comes down.

[DrTimPerkins]

What are the pro's/con's of the two variations (that I know of anyways) of wet/dry lateral mainline manifolds? The one pictured in the Leader catalogue vs. the one on p.107 of the Maple Syrup Prod. Manual.

There are several variants of manifolds. Some of the newer styles use primarily SS instead of PVC to avoid freezing-induced breakage. Another style is to simply Tee a mainline into the wet line to form the branch mainline, and Tee a line from the dry line that curves upward and then back down into the branch mainline 3-5 feet from the wet/dry line at a steep angle. This style avoids adding any PVC into the system and avoids freezing issues. We haven't tried this style, but it sure sounds nice and simple.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

For pics of Dr. Perkins 3rd example, look at Jason Grossman's Pics. Jason did some installation for me and did this type of set up and it seems to work well.

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

I started out using the PVC manifolds in my one grove that is fairly level. I had several of them break so I bought SS fittings and installed in the new grove I put out. I also bought a few extra that way if any of the PVC boosters break I will swap them out with SS fittings.

[sugarstone]

There are several variants of manifolds. Some of the newer styles use primarily SS instead of PVC to avoid freezing-induced breakage. Another style is to simply Tee a mainline into the wet line to form the branch mainline, and Tee a line from the dry line that curves upward and then back down into the branch mainline 3-5 feet from the wet/dry line at a steep angle. This style avoids adding any PVC into the system and avoids freezing issues. We haven't tried this style, but it sure sounds nice and simple.
SS sounds nice but not in the budget this year.
I like the idea of the other option and staying away from PVC. Would it look something like this? The "X's" are valves and "T's" are poly tees. Should I bother reducing the size of pipe for the air and sap section of pipe before it enters wet/dry mains?

[sugarstone]

For pics of Dr. Perkins 3rd example, look at Jason Grossman's Pics. Jason did some installation for me and did this type of set up and it seems to work well.
Just noticed your post. Those photos will help for sure. Might add valves for cleaning. Will install these for this year.

[ennismaple]

Sugarstone - You got it, but I'd recommend Y's instead of T's. Fluids don't like turning 90°.

We plan on installing this type of system to retrofit parts of our bush to be wet/dry. I'm sure the Leader system works well too but if your mainlines are flat you'll have to adjust a bunch of mainline and steel to make up for the drop from the side mainline to the wet line.

[maplecrest]

i use the method dr.perkins spoke of . the loop from wet to dry. i use a ss steel Y going into the wet line and a ss steel tee going into the dry line. if you see how ss steel works in the woods and how fast it thaws out you would find it in your budget. i will never use anything else. worth every cent. and the sap moves thru the 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 by 1 inch y"s with no slow downs

[Squaredeal]

I have 13 pvc manifolds with guages and valves that I will be changing out for the simpler "wye" design this year.
The gauges never work after the first week, the valves are unnecessary now that I am vacuum washing, and there are just too many places to leak in the pvc design. Leaking, and the introduction of cold air under vacuum seems to be what causes the manifolds to freeze and bust apart. I figure about an hour of leakage from a pvc manifold on the conductor line will cost more than the fittings necessary for the change over.

[Snow Hill Farm]

I'm trying to figure out why there are breakage problems with the PVC manifolds? Last year I installed 7 PVC manifolds that I built (2" SCH 40, 1" T on top for dry line, 1" t on bottom for wet line). Each has a valve and 3/4" fitting on the side for the mains coming in and I tapped the top of the 1" dry T and screwed in a vacuum gauge. Everything worked great and nothing cracked, gauges all worked. I definitely have good slope and have no back up of sap so there is little chance of freezing. I also make sure the manifolds are not stressed or pulled by the side mains coming in. Just wondering....

[Squaredeal]

Probably you have not experienced problems b/c the manifolds have only been out for one year. Eventually, expansion and contraction will start to work things loose (not the glued joints, but the threaded and barbed) and you will get leakage. Vacuum leakage brings in cold air which freezes any sap in the manifold as the temperature goes down. Freezing equals expansion which causes cracking of the unyeilding PVC.
Most everyone I know who is serious about their vacuum pipeline is getting rid of PVC manifolds.
When I pressure washed last year, every manifold leaked like a sieve from either threaded or barbed joints -even though I couldn't hear any leaks when under vacuum.
This year, no more pvc and no more pressure wash -which I think contributes to the lines working loose over time.

[Snow Hill Farm]

Really interesting info, I'll be watching for that. I wash with an air/water mix so I may have damage already, will find out soon.

[Mark-NH]

Couldn't you do this same thing with 5/16 tubing? I mean tap into your wet line with a saddle like you always do and then saddle into the dry line and y into the 5/16 wet lateral?

[jason grossman]

the " wye" design is all i install and have done that for several years. from my stand point it is just a simpler design. it is easy for me to install and only consists of three fittings and clamps. so i can standardize my jobs. it also does not matter if your lines are not perfectly in line or so many inches apart. it is also much easier to clean the tubing using this method. and cleaning is the most important part of tubing!! Dr. perkins if you are interested in trying this i would be more than happy to installing a test system for you.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. perkins if you are interested in trying this i would be more than happy to installing a test system for you.

Thanks for the offer....we're all set. We have several different types of manifolds in use.

[sapman]

From some things I've heard, I have to wonder if cleaning is the most important part of tubing. Not to question anyone's opinion, just stirring a pot, I guess, which has been stirred recently, I think.

Best regards,
Tim

[sapman]

Guess I should have checked the next thread under this heading. Sorry to be redundant!

Tim

[Homestead Maple]

Last year was the first year that I used the PVC manifolds and I didn't have any problems. The slope on my lines is good so that everything drains well. I have a friend that has used the PVC manifolds the last 8 years and one broke when a large limb fell on it but other than that he's never had one break. The problem must come from poor drainage.