Whoever said to find pallets for firewood...

[Loun]

What did I ever do to you?! I found about 20 pallets and made multiple trips last night after work. I went out with a skill saw tonight after work and got through about 8 of them.. my back hurts, my arms hurt, I can barely type well enough to search craigslist for chord wood LOL

So... most of what im finding on CL is hardwood, I know pine is great for this, would burning hardwood actually be worse? I will keep poking around looking for non hard wood is that is the case.

Thanks everyone!

-Lou

[C.Wilcox]

Loun,

You have to plug that skilsaw in before you use it. :)

Try calling some tree companies in your area and tell them you're looking for softwood firewood, preferably the tops. Most of the time they just chip all that stuff because there's no money in it for firewood. Even if they ask for some money it's likely to be much less than hardwood. Also try calling local sawmills and ask if they sell slabs or cut off's. Another place that might have cut off's for sale is the pallet factory.

[Frank Ivy]

Why on earth would you want to burn non-hardwood if you could burn hardwood?

If the reason you're using soft wood is because you want fewer BTUs, then just use less hardwood.

If necessary, just split the hardwood finer, for example, if you wanted the wood to burn quicker and not coal.

Help me out here guys - why would you want the extra labor involved with moving around low BTU wood?

[Loun]

"You have to plug that skilsaw in before you use it. "

I was going green.. trying to uses less electricity...

I emailed some people already will try to make some calls tomorrow. If I had more time I could cut this stuff up but I dont :( And that starts to make me question if I have time to do this in general.. boooo!

-Lou

[Loun]

Frank,

It was my understanding that pine was a little cheaper and it actually burned hotter than hardwood. I am asking because im trying to understand. I wont need more than a cord with what I already have so 225$ later im done with worrying about wood. Im ok with that. I just am trying to find out the best option.

[KenWP]

Okay what kind of blade you useing on this saw. A good carbide tip one and you should be able to make pieces out of a bunch in not to much time. The hardest to cut up for me is the three big pieces the cross pieces usually cut like butter. How many of these pallets are softwood. Very few of mine are. I borught home one hardwood one that I could just pick up. It had thick hardwood slats even.

[Loun]

im not going to answer those questions because its going to make me look like more of a baby :p

The saw blade must be dull or somethin... they are mostly pine pallets. Honestly its more that I am a whimp these days and for the amount of wood I can realistically get going back and forth with my ford explorer, bringing home and cutting up all night then loading the cut piecesi n my explorer and transporting them from Lowell, MA where I am now, to Winsted CT to then unload and still not have enough wood. It makes more sense to me to just get a load of wood, dump it next to where im going to be burning and call it a day. Free is great but free really isnt free sometimes.

So yea.. should I buy hardwood or softwood? I know hardwood lasts longer but is there a difference in heat and will that difference matter?

-Lou

[KenWP]

If you can buy reasonable hardwood go for it. It has almost twice the heat units of some softwood. I wouldn't bother hauling wood anywhere with a Explorer. Trucks are made for hauling Explorers are made for the FBI.

[C.Wilcox]

I say you should get whatever you can get a good price on. Softwood will burn faster than hardwood so you'll be firing more often and will obviously go through a bigger pile of wood. Hardwood will burn longer so less firing. Great if you don't want to stand in front of the evaporator the entire time. Lots of guys on here burn softwood as part of their mix, if not exclusively. It's really just a question of what you have available to you.

I agree that time is a precious commodity and while buying a load of firewood does add a bit of expense, sometimes it's nice to remember it's just a hobby for some of us and it's okay to enjoy it without having to kill ourselves with work in the process.

As soon as that first batch of syrup comes out of the pan you'll be glad that you found the time to do it.

[Loun]

I agree completely. I can get a cord of seasoned hardwood cut split and delivered (then I can split smaller if needed) for 180-200$ I could spend 20 hours hauling and cutting pallets and not have near a cord. And I could do a lot with 20 hours haha.

Thanks again guys. I really cant wait until GOLD starts to pour out of the draw off.. at least it better be :)

[PerryW]

I think the major reason people use softwood is because hardwood firewood is worth $200-300 per cord. Softwood is much cheaper (or free). I have a sawmill and I can hardly give the softwood away.

[Rhino]

Pallets are great if you can....get them for free, haul alot at a time and not very far (we haul 180 at a time, 1 ton and 17 foot trailer) and the 2 most important are have 3 people to help cut them and have spare chainsaw chains ready. This is one of our jobs for this weekend. We have a mountain of pallets, mostly hardwood. We love them because of the heat they put out and easy to slide into evap. We only have to rip them in half though, I can see where cutting them into small pieces would be a pain.

[jdj]

[QUOTE=Frank Ivy;93913]Why on earth would you want to burn non-hardwood if you could burn hardwood?

One reason would be softwood doesn't leave coals. If you boil 10-12 hrs continuous with hardwood, you will have a major build up of coals in the arch.

[Loun]

Rhino that definitely makes sense. I have access to free hardwood and free softwood pallets. Where all I have available to use as a transport is my explorer for now (seats folded down) I have to cut them up small in order to pack as much in as I can. It is something im done trying to do :) I will finish cutting what I have or toss them on the lawn with a sign that says "Free" and let them be someone elses problem. What I have cut up will be great to use to start the fire though. Really dry and ready to burn burn burn.

[red maples]

I think its all been said here but you will get a more constant heat from hardwood. and if you can do that go for it.

I used soft wood beacuse.

1. I paid $150 ($50 and 2 gallons of syrup)for a grapple load of softwood thats going to be 4-6 cords.
compared to $250 for seasoned hard cord wood.

2. I use hard wood for the woodstove that I cut dowm myself back in my woods.

3. gets rid of rotten dead trees just laying in the suarbush.

4. as far as pallets. use a short blade on a sawsall I find it will go a little quicker just have a few when they break.

5. Don't be afraid to hit the gym once in a while.:) I split and stacked 3/4 of a cord of oak before the sun came up in about 1.5 hours with my trusty maul. worked up a good sweat!!!

[Fred Henderson]

LMAO you you don't know how to cut a pallet up you are sure going to have a tough time burning it.

[red maples]

if all else fail hit with a 10 lb sledge hammer. that will make it nice and small. or build an evaporator that will fit whole pallets see problem solved!!!:lol:

[Loun]

"you don't know how to cut a pallet up"
There actually was and or is no lack of knowledge. Its a lack of time, but thanks for your input.

After this season is done and I have more time then I can "play" with cutting my own wood. Im essentially trying to buy everything I need to tap and boil sap from 50 taps, to build the arch, then actually gather wood, build the arch, tap the trees, in 2 weekends. Since I work FT 3 hours from where im going to be doing syrup. (I am going down to 2 days a week onsite and the rest remotely from home where I will be doing the syrup as of next week so that will help)

But im willing to bet anyone here would have a hard time fitting all that is necessary for the first time into 2 weekends.. When I have all summer to plan for next year, it will be different. Hitting the gym will help but again no time yet. :)

-Lou

[Dill]

I have an old chainsaw that is only for cutting pallets. When I burn through "good chains" they get demoted to pallet use.
I agree with Red Maples, hardwood is for keeping me warm, pine is for boiling.
I don't pay for either, well maybe a small amount for bundled slabs, which I just bought 1 for 15 bucks. Make friends with the local portable mill guys, they are the ones with slabs and the ones who have to get rid of those slabs. The bigger mills if they are still cutting grind up slabs.

[michelle32]

Loun, I get my pallets from a pallet recovery company and its all cut up and put in 4x4x4 boxes. The same company owns the pallet company in Lowell. Not much work if you had a trailer and they load it for you. Amber gold used some of this last year and so did Eric in andover. I beleave they liked them. If you are getting your pallets from the recovery plant ask what there doing with the scrapes. There all boxed up and ready to go. If not get a trailer and i'll get you all the cut pallets you can handle. But that might be to much work also having to take it from the box to the fire. Keith

[Loun]

Keith,

Thanks for the info about the place in lowell and the offer to help. I will look into it for sure.

-Lou

[Frank Ivy]

Obviously everybody should do what makes sense for them, in terms of time, money, utility, and so on.

I add responses to these just for the info . . .


One reason would be softwood doesn't leave coals. If you boil 10-12 hrs continuous with hardwood, you will have a major build up of coals in the arch.

I've burned a lot of wood in my life - we heat with wood exclusively, and we do pig scalds and such . . . coaling is dependent on wood. Red maple coals quickly - Oak - hardly at all. This is also very dependent on how big the wood is when you put it in. If it's thinner sticks, your coaling decreases, for most species. My experience is that white pine and hemlock don't provide any benefit for coaling, but the only way to know would be to have the same size pieces going in. If you put in a 4" round of red maple and a slat of spruce from a palet, of course they won't coal the same.


I paid $150 ($50 and 2 gallons of syrup)for a grapple load of softwood thats going to be 4-6 cords. Compared to $250 for seasoned hard cord wood.

As a basic matter of economics, split, seasoned, ready to burn fireplace wood will generally cost about the same as the BTU content of the wood. Sure, if you can get scraps from a saw mill, that makes a bunch of sense. Free/cheap softwood beats hardwood for many applications, no doubt.



4. as far as pallets. use a short blade on a sawsall I find it will go a little quicker just have a few when they break.
Using a circular saw to cut pallets is a bit dangerous. High chance of blade bind. Nails. So on. If blades are breaking, it's a sign that, in my opinion, you're pushing the tool past its intended limits.

A great way to cut pallets is to set up a 4x4 or 6x6 grid on the ground and then use a chainsaw between the grid to cut the pallets. Use steel toed boots and chaps please.


5. Don't be afraid to hit the gym once in a while. I split and stacked 3/4 of a cord of oak before the sun came up in about 1.5 hours with my trusty maul. worked up a good sweat!!!

I strongly second hand splitting. It'll keep you healthy and honest and will develop a sense of respect for the energy stored in gasoline, which is not going to be around much longer.


Bottom line is this - hard wood will always give you more BTUS, will always burn hotter, and will always last longer.

The only reason I can imagine to use softwood would be if it costs less money.

As for "burning hotter," that's just not the case. BTUs released per time are not greater in softwood. Of course, if you put in a fat split of oak and then later you put in a faggot of pine splinters, the heat output from the pine will be substantially greater over the first 30 minutes because there is more surface area for combustion.

Bottom line - use what is the best value.

I wouldn't burn softwood because . . .
I have 50 something acres of hardwood.
It all takes the same amount of time to cut.
BTU of Red Oak is about double that of Hemlock, so it would take me about twice as long to prep the wood.
Oh.
And oak splits if you look at it hard enough. Hemlock fights like an SOB.

[Sugarmaker]

Lou,
I haul a lot of pallets and cut them up. Its a lot of time and work! They burn hot. You have to fire often. You get a sap pail of nails after each ten gallons of syrup.
No matter what type I haven't seen any wood fall into the sugar house yet:)

Might want to consider fuel oil! Call the oil company, they fill the tank, you pay the bill. Walk in flick the switch on and when done flick the switch off!
FYI
I have cut 9 cord of pallets for syrup and 9 cord of hard wood for the house this year. Plus helped with 10 cord for the son that burns wood. Yea feels like I cut wood most of the time, keeps me out of the gym:)

I hope you have some time to make and enjoy some nice maple syrup!

Regards,
Chris

[ericjeeper]

There are exactly as many btus in a ton of Oak as there is in a ton of pine.
Now there are more btus in a cord of oak than there is in a cord of pine.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Lou - This appears to be an allocation of production assets issue. Suggest you review your Resources/Process/Goals flowsheet. From afar, the obvious solution would be to send the GF in the Explorer to get more pallets in Lowell, however, probably best to let the onsite engineer make the call. Bruce

[red maples]

There are exactly as many btus in a ton of Oak as there is in a ton of pine.
Now there are more btus in a cord of oak than there is in a cord of pine.

thats beacuse Oak is heavy!!! its funny after you work with the junk wood then switch back to hardwoork man that stuff is heavy the first arm full you think wow what happened.:)

[michelle32]

Loun your finding this alot of work for your first year. Remember you started late and your under the gun right now. Start to plan out next year as you go through everything that has to get done. Then you can spread all this wood cutting and hauling throughout the summer and fall add in the time you collect all those buckets each day and your looking at adding vac strait to sap house next year. Just as much work as wood. But spread out over the season. Keith

[Loun]

Keith,

That is 100% on track with what I was saying in my last post. This year I cant do it all myself because I literally have no time available. Being able to do it over the next few months in preparation for next year will make this all seem a lot easier and I can cut / split my own wood which I have no problem doing, I used to cut and split wood as a part of employment in a family business a few years ago. Im not as opposed to work as it might seem lol, its just its not physically possible to do it all in the time I have currently available before season starts.

I make the 3 hour drive home tonight and im down there all weekend and plan on trying to get my arch built :)

[Amber Gold]

I've found that pallets are more of a PITA than they're worth for the amount of wood you get vs.the time spent processing it.

[BarrelBoiler]

if you can get decent wood for that price good for you
good luck this weekend buuilding your arch

[MaplePancakeMan]

For those who do use pallets do you bother with the end parts or just cut the slats out. Just cutting slats you can process a lot of pallets quickly with a chainsaw. and then no nails either. doing that last year as a trial thing i burned about 10 pallets an hour.

2 people on a table saw seems like it would work best though.

[red maples]

Loun, michell32 said it and your aware of it. "TIme" I worked on my stuff since spring. build sugar house, get evap brick it, run tubing, plumb all the tubbing to the tanks lateral drops. and what ever else....and still I have a few things to do nothing crazy(except for me maybe..I know my wife thinks I am) my problem is I think I have too much time becasue I keep getting into trouble and wanting to do more!!!! I have a hallway closet that I am turning into a book shelf its gonna be really nice but it has taken me oh 4 years or so!!! it almost done. but I did all the stuff mentioned above this summer!!!!

you'll get it don't worry. then you have tap the trees and gather sap and boil it down!!!!