Homemade Sap Releaser Will it Work?

[hardscrabblemaple]

Hello,
I want to make a sap releaser for a small vacuum system (150 taps will increase to 300). I have an old Conde vacuum pump that I need to work on to get max vacuum

Attached is a sketch of my idea and I am looking for feedback from you maple engineers as to whether or not it will work!

The basic idea is using an 8" (or bigger if I can get it) pieice of SDR 35 or Sched 80 plastic pipe about 18" high, seal the ends with a gasket, with a 1/4" thick sheet of plexiglass as the top and bottom plates. Glue in sap and suction line fittings at top of pipe. At bottom of pipe glue in a 2" short section of pvc, cut on a bias, with a hinged "flapper valve" attached to make a tight seal under vacuum. In the top plate, a 3/8" inch threaded rod would be installed in the center of the plate, extending into the body of the 8" pipe, which would serve a the guide for the float valve rod. The "float valve" (a toilet float) rod would go through the threaded rod and out through the top of the plate, with a rubber gasket "seal" on the outside. This would be the vacuum release. As the sap rises in the 8: pipe, the float pushes up and breaks the seal, sap dumps out the dump tube, the valve drops and the vacuum starts pulling against the rubber seals of the release valve and the dump tube valve and the process starts over. Probably not relaeasing much more than 1 to 2 gallons at a time
What do you think will it work?

[jrthe3]

what i have found when using 6 inch or bigger pipe 1/4 plexxi will not hold up the vacuum will suck it in also the idea you have to brake the vacuum with the toilet float will not work the toilet float does not aply the amount of force to brake the vacuum i test it and a toilet float can't brake a vac over 7 inchs

[hardscrabblemaple]

Would a bigger float worK? Aluminum plates instead of plexi?

Thanks

[Toblerone]

If the float itself doesn't have the force to break the seal, why not put it on a lever? Something like this picture:

[hardscrabblemaple]

great idea, I like it! Thanks

[jrthe3]

i bigger float will work i was testing what size float it took to brake how high of vacuum but had to stop to get thinks ready for the season i used 1/2 plexxi all the way up to 12 inch pipe with out a prob i think the lever idea will work the only other thing you might want to consider is having some way of shutting the vac off when dumping

[hardscrabblemaple]

Boyd Thanks
I was wondering about stopping the vacuum. Will a standard check valve work for stopping vacuum? What about the sap line coming in? Any need for a check valve there?
Duncan

[Brent]

the comments above about the float being an issue should be well noted. The diameter of the float in the mechanical releaser I have is about 80% of the diameter of the cylinder and is about 5" deep top to bottom. It operates straight up but has a mechanical advantage ( leverage ) outside of the tank, to open the valve.

I think you should also put a check valve on the sap line to prevent atmospheric air from running back into the sap lines on release. By the time you get it working right, if you add up your time and real costs ( including driving around etc ) you won't feel that $800 for a pro made one is such a bad deal.

[Toblerone]

Brent, for those of us who like to tinker (if the thing works), it's like getting paid $800 to do what we love. A major part of sugaring for me is the ability to satisfy that inner engineer/tinkerer need that I seem to have.

[Brent]

I enjoy doing the tinkering myself. I'm in the machine tool busines and there's almost nothing we can't make in here ourselves. It's like a giant toy box. But having gone through the process many times ( slow learner maybe )
I've learned to spot the value of a "mature product"

Aside from that I can't find enough time. I was in the bush last night working in the moonlight hanging mainline. Still worried I won't be ready. I bought 3 new Bernard releasers this year.

Just feeding the addiction and having fun ... like you.

[hardscrabblemaple]

Aye,
The "tinkerins" a dilemma alright! Afraid it is part of my DNA! Born and brought up in Vermont and trained by a Grandfather and Father who never threw a thing away and was always inventing or building things. Course they didn't have the money to buy what they were making, so there wasn't much choice in the matter.

But there is a certain satisfaction in making a thing that does the job. Was a blacksmith welder for 15 years myself, so have a little experience making things. Made my own evaporators for a long time until I bought a used 2x6.

Thanks for all your ideas; I'll post and let you know if it works.

Picked a piece of 10" SDR 35 out a scrap pile today and and will give some thought to fabricating a large float; maybe a piece of 8" pipe sealed on both ends would do the trick. And I'll give it a mechanical advantage too
Duncan

[farmall h]

HardScrabbleMaple, If you are as close to me as your "profile" name states then maybe you could take a peak at what I am doing for a releaser.

Bob

[maple flats]

I'm not an expert by any means but I thought the one job of a releaser was to keep most of the vacuum on the system. Your design looks like it will lose all vacuum in the system with each dump. Am I missing something?

[Perkmapleacres]

For the old dairy releaser I have been using I put a swing check valve in the sap line coming into the releaser body. Then when the vacuum is broken in the vessel it closes and prevents the loss of vacuum on the sap line.

[dnap63]

HardScrabbleMaple, I would definately use 1/2 inch plexi on the ends, also I would use o-rings instead of rubber gaskets, you can get them fom most suppliers that sell bearings and seals, a good way to keep the o-ring in place is to cut a piece of the pipe about 1 inch long, cut out a small section of this piece so that it can now be slipped inside the long tube (your releaser body), position this piece so that it is sticking out of the main tube about the thickness of the o-ring. This cut section will slide in and allow the o-ring to stay in place as you clamp down the end cap. For through fittings such as control or float rods use a standard compression fitting and replace the compression sleeve with an o-ring.

[caseyssugarshack93]

SUGGESTION= Put check valves on the mainlines coming into the releaser ot maintain vac in the lines, OR build yourself a manifold with a check valve or flapper valve

[farmall h]

casey...do you use your large bender for sap extraction or all taps go to the Bernard?

[hardscrabblemaple]

Bob,
Hardscrabble is kind of a joke; the friend I sugar with named my bush "hardscrabble farms" cause it is a typical ledgy piece of hardscrabble land in Fairfield Vermont
Duncan

[farmall h]

No way! And here I was thinking I was talking to my neighbor here in Sutton. Of course you have heard of the possible wind mills to be located on Hardscrabble Mountain? Well, that is 2/3 Sheffield and 1/3 Sutton.

[caseyssugarshack93]

i have 2 surge bender washer, The bigger ones like 3 gallons or so, I ran one last year on 250 taps with no problem, this year i got ok to run vac on a other 200 or so tap bush so ill be running the other one there to, I think ill have around 250-300 taps if i have the time to get into that woods, i think they big benders can probably handle 350-400 taps max without and modications like a manifold or somthinig, And thats somthing i plan on doing if i have the time, been real busy on getting the sap hauler ready, im kinda behind , still have to work on pumps and get some more oilers, vac gauges, get a releaser, a crap load of valves,= them darn things are expensive, and get the pumps runnng and test them, and build a stand for the milk releasers

[farmall h]

Do you have the "C" shaped bracket for the releasers? I will have to see what you have in the video. Both the small jar and the large jar like you have originally came with a bracket to bolt to the wall. If you still have them mount it to a 2 x 6 and then to a nearby tree or post.

Just took another look @ your large jar Bender. You do have the bracket. Could you do me a favor and take a picture of the vac release mechanism and include the gasket (if there is one) where the rod pops up into the cover. As you know you will have to unscrew the vac inlet to get the jar bracket off. I think I may be missing the inner gasket. Maybe not...hope not. Thanks a bunch.

[Wanabe1972]

It looks like it could work. I have been working on a releaser to get my vacuum up and running (Not going to happen this year) The one thing I have notice during testing is you are really going to need some sort of water trap between releaser and pump. My design seems to get a fair bit of moisture in the vacuum line to the pump. I thought about running my pump higher than the releaser but I dont want to take a chance of contamination while releaser is dumping. Maybe a tank in the middle with line from releaser have way up and a line to the pump on the top this would let and moisture head toward the bottom and collect. Just a valve on the bottom to empty it from time to time.

[farmall h]

wnnabe1972, yes you need the moisture a tank. The moisture has to go somewhere.

[jrgagne99]

Looks like I'm a little late responding to this thread, but I think you need a spring to hold the relief valve open until sap level recedes enough. You want all of the sap to drain out before the relieve valve closes. Your design looks like the releaser will cycle much too quickly with the sap level. That and you need a check valve on the inlet to preserve the vacuum you've established out in the lines during the dump cycle. I'll post a schematic of my homemade one- it works like a champ.

[Rselleck91]

Does anyone have a good method for machining prong groves into a 14” water pipe?

[DocsMapleSyrup]

what are "prong grooves"?