Setting up the RO/room

[danno]

Where to begin ....

On the pump intake side - I need a manifold/valves to take in sap, cleaning solution and permeate.

Are there preferences out of what you make the manifold from? poly pipe, main line, pvc?

I'd like to mount the manifold on the wall - does it need to be above the RO intake pump but below the bulk tank/permeate tank/cleaning tank so that it can gravity feed into the RO?

When adding a re-circulation line from evaporator feed tank back to RO - do you re-circ. into line feeding RO or dump the concentrate back into your bulk tank?

Thanks and I'm sure many more questions to follow.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Danno,
My input to RO is slightly higher than the tank feeding it. For it to start, I need enough sap in the storage tank to create enough head for the pump to prime but once it is going, it will suck the tank dry. For my recirculation, I just put a y in the line that feeds my head tank. The y leads back to my sap storage tank. I put a valve in each leg of the y. I have my choice of recirculating back into my main sap storage or sending concentrate to the head tank just by changing valves. My "manifold" is a piece of PVC that has several t's off it. I actually have 2 sap storage tanks that feed the RO. These tanks connect to the ends of the PVC (valves of course). Off the side of the PVC are the wash tank, the filtrate tank and the feed line to the RO. Again, all are valved so that I can control what is feeding what. By shutting all the valves and then opening the one between the filtrate tank and the wash tank, I can backflow filtrate into my wash tank for use in washing. I built this line at the level of the inflow into the RO pump.
Totally confused yet:) I sure was.

[Brian Ryther]

I am at the same spot setting up mu RO. I am confused as to why Laperriere sells a three way valve manifold for the permiate and concentrate discharge, but they do not sell a manifold for the suction side of the stuffing pump. You have three potential feed sources for the pump. ????

[maplwrks]

Brian and Danno, On the feed side of my RO, I have the sap tank,wash tank, and permeate tank all plumbed into it and are all valved individually. They all feed the feed pump. On the discharge side of the permeate, I made a pvc manifold that I use to direct the permeate to the permeate tank,wash tank, and drain. On the concentrate side, the manifold can direct the concentrate to recirc back to the raw sap tank, feed tank,wash tank,and drain. I have both manifolds plumbed into the wash tank because I fill it with permeate and my Lapierre washes through the concentrate side. I think a portion of the manifold is shown in my photobucket near the RO. I know Brian that you were working up this way a while ago, feel free to drop in and take a look.

[Edward Howell]

I will use strofoam in my next ro room , the the forest critters prize the glass insulation for nest and are constantly ripping out pieces all year round :mad:

[maplwrks]

To answer a couple more questions--I personally don't like the Lapierre RO manifold, I guess my little brain can't grasp where all the valves need to be to operate right. I made my manifolds like Doug did, I used pvc t's and brass ball valves. One note I might make, you need to be able to drain all this at the end of the season, so hooking each manifold to a drain a important. I used pvc ball valves on the feed side of the RO--Not Again-- I really like the pvc guillotine valves, and they take up less room. If you bring the feed in level with the feed pump, everything will be down low to the floor,you'll like these valves in this case. No more standing on your head to open valves!

[brookledge]

Do you know what type and size RO you are going to have? Knowing that will make building and setting up your room much easier. Are you going to have any of your tanks inside or are they outside? Also some ro's have there was tank built right in while others don't so you need to make a few basic determinations first and then go from there.
My Ro came with very good an detailed instructions with pictures of the manifolds all set up so it is easier to understand.
Keith

[danno]

Thank you all for all your good suggestions. Time to start plumbing!

I picked up an older but souped up 250/gallon Sap Brothers made by Small Brothers. RO runs 4 4" membranes. Clean tank is seperate, but will be in the RO room. Permeate tank will not.

[Russell Lampron]

Kieth you must not have a Lapierre RO. Their Manual is a piece of crap. I figured out how to plumb and run mine myself. I learned how to run it more efficiently and clean it better by reading post on this web site.

[John Goldberg]

Russ, We are hooking up a new lappiere and are surprised at how vague that manual is. At this point I know clolse to nothing about this whole process . How much filtrate do you guys save to wash with?
John

[caseyssugarshack93]

its usallly if you have a 250 gph rig then u save 250 gallons for wash, atleast thats what i do, sometimes a save a little more, just due to that face my tanks that big,

[maplwrks]

Each membrane should get rinsed with at least 500 gallons permeate. If you bought this RO from a dealer, tell him to get his a$$ out there and go over the machine with you. The manufacturers are all the same at this time of the year---move equipment, the hell with the buyer! You might figuire it out. The plumbing of it is a matter of preference, but if you have read this entire threadm you may have an idea what should be done.

[brookledge]

Russ
Mine is a CDL and it came with a 32 page manual all in English. Part of it is the wiring diagram and a complete parts list.
All I can tell you is it is what my dealer gave me.
Keith

[markcasper]

brookledge,

By the sounds of it, it appears you are a new ro owner, congratulations! Reading these pots reminds of last year when I went to start my new cdl. The prefilter that came with the RO was shrouded tightly with a weird material that was simply a protective coating. I did not know this however.....wasted 24 hours before I finally figured it out that it had to be removed in order to get sap thorugh the filter.

The ironic thing is that the box of unopened new filters were in encased in a clear "bread bag" like material, which was easily seen that it had to be removed. Yet none of this was mentioned in the operators book. Yet if you buy a new chainsaw, or similar, it tells you not to light a match or open flame, or no smoking while refueling. Go figure!

[Russell Lampron]

John, My RO has a single 4" membrane and I have a 325 gallon tank that I use for filtrate. Most days it will over flow for hours so I could use a bigger one. Mike said that he saves 500 gallons per membrane but his are the larger 8" membranes. By testing the filtrate when I am rinsing after a wash cycle I have found that it only takes about 50 gallons before the ph of the rinse water coming out of the drain matches the filtrate going in.

[John Goldberg]

I am only set up to handle 300 gal of filtrate inside. I guess Ill have to plumb in another tank and set it outside. I was leary of that on account of it freezing. I can see myself out there @ 4AM thawing the outlet with a torch but thats what Ill have to do. Maybe I can get my wife to do it. You guys are very helpful Thanks John

[Russell Lampron]

John I was afraid of freezing too but for the most part it is a non issue. I can go to bed with my RO doing a wash cycle and go out the next morning, start the rinse cycle and hop in my car and go to work. There has only been a couple of times in the last 6 years that I have had to thaw it out first. If it looks like it is going to be cold enough for it to freeze I will wait for the wash cycle to end and run the rinse before I go in to bed.

[John Goldberg]

I got the filtrate and concentrate piping done tonite. Its starting to make some sense. The wash tank has several ports. I guess as long as anything corresponding to wash, on the valve assemblies of the machine itself are hooked to that tank somewhere Im all set eh? John

[caseyssugarshack93]

hope to get the r.o hooked up this week before lappiere is on call 24/7 i have a 330 gallon cage tank i use for pemate, and a 600 gallon stainless feed tank which is wicked small, but i leave most the sap on the trucks till the sap gets down to were i like in the tank then i do one final pass and shoot it up to the feed tank after recirlating hopefuly i ill beable to keep up, but who knows its going to be close and alot of long nights waiting for the r.o to get done so i can make some steam

[brookledge]

Casey
did someone tell you what size permeate tank you need? I know you have a small RO but 330 seems small
Keith