single 5/16 sap ladder?

[backyardsugarer]

I have about 20 taps I could pick up that are all down hill from my mailine. I was thinking about running all 20 to one later line and then running that line to a tree directly below my mainline. The lift would be 4' straight up. Would vac (17"-20") suck the sap up that height? I know the right way to do it is with a star and a mainline but I do not have the time to mess with that this year. I know the flow would not be as good as it could be but it is 20 more taps. Any input would be appreciated.

Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

I am not a tubing expert by any means, but you got to think if a tree can push sap to its top branches that it will push it 4 feet and the vac would just be bonus.

[maplwrks]

Chris,
I have a couple of spots where I need to do this. I "barberpole" around a tree and run it straight into the main. If you have that much vacuum, it will work fine. It's kinda cool when the sap runs to watch the sap go up the tree.

[backyardsugarer]

so I should barder pole instead of going straight up. Makes sense (gradual climb). Thanks, I will be adding some taps to day with that info.

Chris

[Squaredeal]

I have seen plenty of laterals that run uphill into mainlines -I have a few here. Sticking to the 'strive for five' axiom is very important in such a situation, and if you could split the 20 taps up into two - four laterals there would be no problem -especially if the elevation change is gradual.
I have had places that run downhill with 20 taps on 24" of vacuum and at the end of the lateral there is A LOT less vacuum. It sometimes takes a bunch of tubing and fittings to correct this, but the increased yield more than makes up for it.

[Dennis H.]

I have a few places were I have lat's that go down a hill to pick up a few trees that otherwise I wouldn't tap.

It seems that with my vac running at 20" of vac there isn't any problems getting the sap up to the main. Most of mine are just 2 taps but I do have on that hase 4.

The biggest down side to having lat's that run down hill from the main is that will run run by gravity when the vac is off, but if it is only a small % of your trees than it wouldn't matter much.

[Beweller]

At worst you will loose about 4 inches of vacuum. At best, considerably less.

Straight up is better. Coiling does nothing positive and adds friction pressure drop. With a 5/16 tube, running upward on a slant is OK. Not with larger tubes.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Liquid doesnt know its going stright up or up a slow inclone. Unless you have hadicaped sap.. OK back to the lesson its all about the head the hight the liquid is raised from point A is the low side and t point B is the high point if that is 4 feet then its 4 feet. If you have a 5/16 tube full of sap that is 4' long and a 5/16 tube that is wound around a tree and is 20 feet long wich one is going to take more vacuum to lift???...........MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Beweller]

Coiling increases the length and the friction drop is proportional to length.

[sugarstone]

When your vac is off, sap will run into those laterals. Some cases sap will completely fill the drops as well. I have had spiles pop out because of sap freezing and expanding. I avoid grabbing any trees below my mains because of this.

[brookledge]

sugarstone
That is a good reason to use checkvalve adapter.It will keep the sap from flowing backwards in the low spots even with out vacuum
Keith

[maplwrks]

I use both methods to get taps lower than my main back up to the main. It all depends on where the main is in regards to the last tree. Both methods work very well, although I wouldn't want a lot of taps doing this. The way I look at it, I wouldn't be getting anything out of these taps if I was on gravity, so what the heck, it's something.
I think sometimes you guys over analyze why something works. If it works, so be it. What does friction drop have to do with lifting 20 taps? Who cares as long as the sap goes into the main!! Remember, if your tubing is tight, you should not see the sap moving at all.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Your saying with 15 taps on a letteral you will see no movement. Yes I have big counts on long set ups and dang the only way I can get the sap to quit moving is to pinch the line with my plyers. You say sometimes we over analize things it took me 3 years when I started out to finally get how you could just dump tree sap into a big tank over a fire and then open a valve and get Maple syrup out of it.

[sugarstone]

sugarstone
That is a good reason to use checkvalve adapter.It will keep the sap from flowing backwards in the low spots even with out vacuum
Keith

...sounds like another good reason to try them. Never thought of that one. Might wait a few years till I switch over. Make sure all the "bugs" are worked out....if any.

[Brent]

I have always thought that getting sap to go up was a factor of
1) getting help from the little bubbles in the line that lift the sap, assisting the vacuum.
2) moving it up quickly ... as the bubbles lift the sap, some sap on the sides of the tubing will let some of the sap bi-pass the bubble and go back down.
So the faster the movement up the tube, the better. This is why some star fittings have air bleed vavles, to let in air to accelerate the sap up. The problem is that it costs vacuum.
3) the more vertical the better ... the tubes are shorter you get less back flow in the tube. Visualize a mailine tube going up on a 5 degree slope for say 50 feet. The bubbles will try to push the sap up but so much will leak around the bubble, especially under the bubble, that nothing will go up until the line is almost full of sap.

Lots of therory here from a guy that has never made one ladder.