ok so sap is running...time to build an arch

[morningstarfarm]

So sap is running....got 2 new to me 2x3 pans (1 flu and 1 finishing) now I need to build an arch, however, I have a couple questions.
1 what thickness of angle do I need to use? Was figuring on 3/16 but ....
2 what guage sheetmetal for the sides? was thinking 12 guage (1/8)
3 should i make both pans the same level or should I raise the rear pan 8" so that the flu pan is above the finishing pan?
4 will I need more than the 8" stack i have now?


Thanks for the info....will probably need more input later

[vtsnowedin]

:lol: A two foot wide arch isn't holding that much of a load. I'd think 3/4 x3/4 x1/8 inch angle would be plenty.
My 3x8 rig has 18 gauge sheet metal for sides and bottom. You could go to 20 gauge no problem.
Raised flue or drop flue? You didn't say. The top of the angle irons are the same either way only the bricking and baffles vary. If you have a raised flue set of pans you need two floats while a drop flue uses only one.
10 inch stack would be better but an eight inch will work if that's what you have in hand.
Good luck with your project and keep us posted.

[morningstarfarm]

ok so i'm beginning to realize that I know just enough to be dangerous. the flu's drop down like 4-5" from the bottom of the pan so I'm guessing that it's a dropped flu? it only has one float.

[Bucket Head]

Yes, its a drop flue model.

Steve

[DanE.]

I would use 1 3/4 x 1 3/4 3/16, You are going to put a couple hundred pounds of fire brick, plus the sap and you are spanning 6' 6", plus don't forget about the heat. 1 3/4 will cradle 1.5 inch split firebrick nicely.

The side, the thinner the better, it is easier to cut and bent, as long as you are insulating the arch well the heat won't get to it. I'm using 22ga with split fire brick and it works fine, but its only haft the size of an arch as yours.

I would run the pans the same height unless you want to get into building a float valve on the finishing pan too.

One thing else you might want to think about is to lay out you design with you firebricks in mind. it could save you a lot of cutting bricks. I was cursing yesterday when I was bricking my arch, splitting the brick, when I could have changed my design by and inch one way or another and saved all the work and used complete bricks.

[Sugarmaker]

Morning..,
Getting right to the point and not trying to burst your bubble. Remind me how many taps do you have out now?

Do you have friend or neighbor that boils sap? I would have is number handy:)

How much time have you planned to build the arch? If you have a good fab shop and are good with building things and you have all the materials and all the tools you might crank one of these out in a couple days?? Lots of hustle!
I am slow, it took me two years to restore the arch I am using! I am in no way trying to be smart or negative.
Also I still have things to do when I tap too, but the work to get ready to boil should not consume more than two days or you are going to have sap running all over if the run is good.

- So your arch will be 2 feet wide by 6 feet long plus the extended area for the flue pipe to exit.
- You will need some thing to hold the fire (grates).
- The sides could be 20 gauge material, unless these are your main supports. - If you have 1/8 and can fab it it that would work fine too for the sides.
- Keep the bottoms of the pans at the same level, so the top of the arch will be a continuous rail for the pans.
- 8 inch stack should work fine.
- Are you going to put fire brick in the arch?
-Do you have a door for the arch?

We are here for support, Looking forward to helping you if I can.

Regards,
Chris C.

[BoarsNest]

I am just starting to build an arch. I just happen to have a fab shop so I am going to make it out of 12 ga SS. Laser cutting the entire sides and forming the top flanges for the pan to sit on. I am going to form a 12 ga SS bottom and weld it into place. Then line it with 1/2" batten insulation and full fire brick. I am thinking about using 1/4 plate for the end with the door.
I notice that most people use angle for a frame, but most wood stoves are welded steel sheet construction.

Does anyone see any problems with a welded construction like I am suggesting?

[morningstarfarm]

I've been working on plans for this arch for months. I have a double set of doors off a woodstove so I'm set there. I have a buddy that has a fab shop so thats no prob..was planning to use 12 guage steel all around for walls and bottom. then line firebox with 1.5" firebricks and line the rest of the arch with the ceramic insulation...leaving about an inch under the flues It'll have a blower on the back of the firebox too so that'll help...in an ideal world I'll make a nice grate but if I run short on time I'll use a heavy fireplace grate I have for that's 16" wide....this is the last project before the fun begins...hoping to get it framed Tues and then I'll tap a few and then plan to finish up arch by Friday...Planning for first burn on sat...In a perfect world that is:confused:

[kinalfarm]

sounds likeyou have a pretty good idea on what yours going to do. just make sure you have your measurements figured out. such as the depth of your flues in relation to your ramp in your arch your want to figure out how your bricking it so that your have a little space under the flues but bo more than about 1.5'' but not touching. 8 in stack is perfect for a 2x6 rig, mine has a 6'' and its just a tad too small. if you go any bigger it wont keep heat very well. 3/4 or 1'' by1/8 angle is what most arches that size are constructed of and usually 16 gauge sheetmetal. if its any thiner you have to worry about it rusting out in a couple of years. if you dont plan to insulate ir brick the entire thing than your should prolly use 12 or 14 gauge. also installing a blower in the ashpan part of the arch will help you out a lot in startup time and cut down your boiling time by about 25% if you have access to electric where you will be boiling. just make sure you seal it up good if you use a blower. i used fire place morter you can buy it in caulking tubes. good luck and i hope we helped, keep us posted. oh and mineral wool is a good fireproof insulation.

heavy 2x2 angle with holes drill in it makes a good great and it wont sag spaced about 3/4'' between them.

[Sugarmaker]

Morningstarfarm,
I will check back Friday. A good fab shop should be able to complete this for you by them if you have good plans. and the materials.
Hope your boiling and making fancy syrup this weekend. :)
Regards,
Chris

[morningstarfarm]

thanks, it's gonna be a loooooong week hopefully everything works out

[vtsnowedin]

I am just starting to build an arch. I just happen to have a fab shop so I am going to make it out of 12 ga SS. Laser cutting the entire sides and forming the top flanges for the pan to sit on. I am going to form a 12 ga SS bottom and weld it into place. Then line it with 1/2" batten insulation and full fire brick. I am thinking about using 1/4 plate for the end with the door.
I notice that most people use angle for a frame, but most wood stoves are welded steel sheet construction.

Does anyone see any problems with a welded construction like I am suggesting?

Forming the top flanges is a lot of work, Of course if your shop is well equipped it may not be for you. Anyway angle iron is ready made to close tolerances and makes a nice level frame that is ideal for hanging the sheet metal sides to. The old Yankees figured out how to build a complete arch using the minimum of materials. You will be hard pressed to improve on their basic design but you can guild the lily a lot if you have access to extra strength and shiny parts but they won't boil sap any faster.
Wood stoves don't have to be dead level and don't run wide open for hours on end so I wouldn't look to them as a guide. I do like the idea of matching the top angle iron size to the thickness of a half fire brick plus the thickness of the arch board you want to use. Perhaps a 2x2x3/16". Stronger then needed but handy to drill holes in for the rivets and easy bricking.

[BoarsNest]

Forming the top flanges is a lot of work, Of course if your shop is well equipped it may not be for you. Anyway angle iron is ready made to close tolerances and makes a nice level frame that is ideal for hanging the sheet metal sides to. The old Yankees figured out how to build a complete arch using the minimum of materials. You will be hard pressed to improve on their basic design but you can guild the lily a lot if you have access to extra strength and shiny parts but they won't boil sap any faster.
Wood stoves don't have to be dead level and don't run wide open for hours on end so I wouldn't look to them as a guide. I do like the idea of matching the top angle iron size to the thickness of a half fire brick plus the thickness of the arch board you want to use. Perhaps a 2x2x3/16". Stronger then needed but handy to drill holes in for the rivets and easy bricking.

We tend to do more work with sheet metal than structural, so that was my first tendency. My equipment lends itself to these processes and I think that I continue and let people see the results. My stainless won't be shiny, just a 2B finish. Thanks for the comments, I'll keep you guys up dates as I go.