cooking nails

[40to1]

Never thought this would happen, but my extraordinarily small sugaring operation (4 taps in 2008 and 5 taps in 2009) has just last week swelled to almost 20 taps for 2010. I'm thrilled, but I'm screwed.

A small backyard evaporator will have to wait 'til next year.
For 2010 I'm stuck using a single propane gas cooker (turkey fryer).

I'm toying with the idea of tossing in a handful of aluminium (food grade) cooking nails into the pot. My thought is that they would increase the surface area and expedite the evaporation.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Many thanks!

[3rdgen.maple]

Just when I think I heard it all.. I really do not understand how a bunch of nails in your pan are gonna create more surface area. I do think that the amount of money you are going to spend on propane would get you a decent used or new pan to sit on some concrete blocks. I do recall something about aluminum and syrup is not a good idea. Do a search cause there was a thread on it a few weeks ago. Heck check out the classifieds on here and see if you can make a deal on a small pan. Or like others have done and picked up some restaraunt pans and stuck them on block and fire with wood.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im sitting here thinking food grade cooking nails.......then it hit me are we talking about the ones that you stick in Potatos to help cook them quicker because they transfer heat into the middle of the Potato??? I think all your going to do is waste heat keeping a bunch of nails hot. I believe the heat that transfers to the nails wont go towards heating the sap. I think the sap will heat the nails actually slowing the rate by a tiny fraction. Once up to temp it wont take much to keep them there

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I agree with Haynes. The nails won't help. To facilitate your boil, I'd try to set up an additional pan or pans to at least preheat the sap. Do you have a place you can have a wood fire safely? A slow simmer will remove a lot of water with little attention and then you can dinish on your turkey fryer.

[KenWP]

I found for a simple preheater that worked with a large SS pot was just a metal 5 gallon pail with the ends cut out and a simple door in front and a small 4 inch stack on the back. It worked great to get the sap boiling hot to put in the evaporator. I shoveled all my scrap wood into it and cleaned up a lot of small stuff doing it.

[Stickey]

Are you trying to spike your syrup? :o :D

[johnallin]

Stickey, you just hit the nail on the head!!

[Jeff E]

As I think about this, I have to agree with the others. The bottom of your turkey fryer will be the temp of the boiling sap, 212-219, depending on how far along you are making syrup. so the nails will be the same temp as the sap, since nothing they touch will be higher temp. It won't increase your surface area of heated surface touching the sap.

Surface area is the key. Preheating helps a lot.

Good luck!

[Stickey]

Thanks Johnallin, I guess you could say I pegged it.
Just be careful fellas, wouldn't want anyone gettin hammered off this recipe.

40to1, I'm not picking on you, the puns are just irresistible. ;)

[Haynes Forest Products]

Now boys and girls we need to rethink this a little. What would happem if you were to pound them babbies 1/2 way thru the pan and seal them would you not get more heat transferd into the sap? Think about it they will act like little heat sinks bringing the heat past the bottom of the pan up into the sap.

HECK NO IM NOT GOING TO BE THE FIRST TO TRY IT. I think this has KenWs name all over it

[KenWP]

I have a better idea. Find some copper bolts and drill holes in the pan and then attach them with seals and nuts to both sides and then the heat transfer would really work. Now who can find me copper bolts real fast and I will make it tomorrow.

[DanE.]

I know a guy that took a stud welder (used to pull auto body dents out) and welded 100s, it looked that way anyways, to the bottom of his turkey fryer, When I watch him boil last year they did have bubbles on them. he swears that he uses less gas and evaporates faster.

Dane.

[KenWP]

He put them on the inside. Have no idea how they could help on the inside. The outside maybe. If a guy could get a few bolts in lets say 3/8 or half inch they would sure attract the heat. Now I have to search for copper bolts all over the country. I had boxs of them a few years ago until I moved. A guy could use SS also but it wouldn't attact the heat as much.

[BarrelBoiler]

40-1....... check around htere might be one in your swap paper or on the net

alot of block and food table pan set ups are in the trader posts too... if you can scrounge the wood be better than propane use the propane to finish
my nickle

[kinalfarm]

i have to agree that the nails would help if the where permanently welded in the up right position on the bottom of the pan because of the heat transformation from the 1800 degree fire under neath, its simple physics because the bottom of the pan is that hot. but i dont think it would be enough to notice on a pot but mabye a 2x3 pan

or if copper transfers heat better like they say than just have someone make you a copper pan, it is tig weldable.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dont you mean the down right position:lol: Now Im thinking bolts big *** copper ones just two of them hooked up to 220 volts Ken I think your the guy to try it.

[KenWP]

I may be Canadain but I am not that gullible. The copper bolts would have so much through the bottom into the heat and so much into the pan to heat the sap. Would increase the surface area. If the bottom of the pan was 1800 degrees it would be red hot which it isn't. The pot is the same temp as the liquid inside of it so haveing something attached to the bottom inside the pan would do absoloutly nothing except make it very hard to clean.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

But if it was a carriage head type bolt, the head would be actually on the outside and way hotter then the 215 degrees or whatever is in the pan. If it was aluminum, it may not stand up to the heat.

[KenWP]

My thought was to have it half anf half. Have two nuts forceing the seal on the bottom ot the pot. Then the copper bolts could draw the heat quickly into the pot. Just a thought. That or use Hanyes's idea and get somebody to test it for us.

[maple flats]

After you go thru all of those ideas and hopefully rule them all out, try to find a flat pan you can set on blocks and really expand your operation. Try Basom Maple Farm, they among many others show 2 pans for $125 each and many others for $300 or less in their used equipment. Other dealers might have something used too. Make an arch out of concrete blocks and burn some wood. Or if you are doing this at home, just pre heat sap in a SS pot on the stove, you can get them at stores like Big Lots and others for about $20 ea. Just slow heat in the house or the moisture will be too much, but then transfer to the turkey frier as needed. Even in you don't heat to a boil on the pre heat you will evap a little and adding hot sap will help quite a bit on the turkey frier boil rate.

[KenWP]

Your taking all the fun out of this. We need to come up with weird ideas once in a while.

[Stickey]

Your right Ken, the more primitive a set up is, the closer we connect with the natural spirit of the activity. This site would be boring without some fresh discussion. I can only read so much about ro s, releasers, vac pumps so on and so forth. Creativity is what keeps me interested. Home made and hand built is always more intriguing than manufactured.

Not to mention, where else you going to be introduced to items like food grade nails? I can't help but laugh, even if there is such a thing. It gets me wondering about food grade bacteria.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Or radiator hose;)

[3rdgen.maple]

I hear ya. I have heard more crazy stuff on her in a few weeks than I have in a year. Seems like some of us are going insane waiting for sap. You see the same questions asked a million times and get weird stuff like the food grade nails and food grade radiator hose and the one I really like the most food grade garbage cans. I never knew people ate there garbage after they stored it in a can.
Haynes I was jealous you had an avatar so I had to put one up!!!!!!

[KenWP]

They do have food grade bacteria. What you think cheese and yougurt and things are. Plus why do you think they hang meat for. If our tummys never had bacteria we couldn't digest what we eat.

[gator330]

3rd I caught that one about food grade garbage cans too, I had to stop and think about that one myself. It is the season to get goofy about things!!! BY the way first thing I noticed this morning was you got a avatar. Surprised there isn't a fresh run steelhead next to the jug of syrup!!!!

[3rdgen.maple]

Gator I got a little jealous when I seen that Haynes put an avatar up so I had to step up and do something. I got lots of pictures of steelhead I could use. I just might get creative and start switching things up. Next up I will have to post some pictures for you all to view. Truth be told insomnia has kicked in again and I was bored and unable to sleep so I was messing around. As far as food grade garbage cans I just think we all need to be careful what we use for storage, been many threads on it and I cringe whenever I here someone using them. We all represent the industry and I would hate to think what people think who do not understand how we do things drive by and see us using them, not to mention the stuff that can leach out of it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Now do you know what my Avatar is? I have a friend that is a teck geek and the only reason I have photobucket is a little help from my friends. I was a right side click left side click drag the mouse to here kind of guy the other day.

[gator330]

I must say Haynes avatar is classic!!!! Now back to boiling nails.

[3rdgen.maple]

I do believe that is Aunt Jemima or Mrs. Buttersworth Haynes. I got a laugh out of it. 40 to 1 sorry for stealing your thread like gator said back to boiling food grade nails.

[KenWP]

As to boiling nails have you seen the price of the SS ones. Somebody has to be makeing a buck on those. You could just use SS rod with a point on one end and they would work just as well. And instead of nails just throw some SS tube or what other junk you got hanging around the house and shop.Even the she who must be obeyed SS earings would work.

[Stickey]

They do have food grade bacteria. What you think cheese and yougurt and things are. Plus why do you think they hang meat for. If our tummys never had bacteria we couldn't digest what we eat.

Well I knew that.


Back on topic. I don't think you'll gain much with those nails in your pot. If your limited on funds, build a block arch and keep your eyes peeled for inexpensive pans. Look over this forum for more alternative pan ideas. Save the nails for building a sugar shack and if you paid extra for the food grade ones, go exchange them for regular ones.