Arch Insulation Question

[C.Wilcox]

I'm having a bit of indecision on how to insulate my oil tank arch. I was planning to use 1" archboard and half split firebrick as insulation to keep heat in, but I just found a guy a few miles from my house who has 2.5" X 4.5" X 9" firebrick for sale for $2 each. So my thought is that I could forgoe the archboard and just use the firebrick seeing as how it's fairly thick. I understand that I'm going to be losing some heat through the brick seeing as how there's not going to be any archboard or blanket, but how bad will it be? I was planning on putting up a dry stack concrete block wall along the sides of the evaporator to keep the dogs and kids away from hot surfaces as much as possible and I'm thinking that I could stuff the gap between the block wall and the evaporator with standard fiberglass insulation (no paper backer) to keep more heat in against the arch. Has anybody tried this? Is there a reason I shouldn't do it this way?

Also, just picked up my new 2X4 pan this weekend and can't wait to try boiling on it. I may have made a mistake though in not having dividers welded in. 2" of liquid in the pan is the rough equivalent of 10 gallons. So that means I have to start with about 400 gallons of sap to end up with enough syrup in the pan that I won't burn it. The problem is that with only 50 taps I expect I'll only make a total of about 12 gallons of syrup over the entire season. So now what? I guess I could draw off "sweet" and store it until the end of the season when I can add it all back to the pan for one last boil?

[3rdgen.maple]

I personally would not skip the arch board. My old setup was just full brick and the side of the arch were cherry red. The stuff is relatively inexpensive compared to everything else we spend money on in the maple world. Beside If you are not liking just brick you won't have to tear it apart and redo it. Do it once and do it right. As far as protecting the family and dogs from the heat, Do what makes you feel comfortable in protecting them. My dog lays right down on the floor as close to the arch as possible and sucks the heat right up. On your flat pan setup you could do many things to finish your syrup. Get a smaller pan and when you are close you could dump it over and finish on that. I think once you get comfortable you won't nee to run the pan 2 inches deep and be able to finish off small batches right on the rig as is.

[red maples]

don't skip the arch board those bricks hold serious heat and the arch board protects the arch from that heat and the bricks protect the arch board from the fire. and that is expensive for a full brick. mine were like $1.65 I think something like that. but definitely safety is an issue like 3rdgen said.

[maple flats]

You should be able to get fire bricks cheaper. I would suggest half brick, 1.25" thick, with arch board insulation behind it. Get the most out of your fire.

[C.Wilcox]

Just like I feared. You guys are going to end up talking me out of my bad decision. I was hoping to save a few dollars on the board and use it to buy my storage tank.

So where are you getting your firebrick at? Are you going to fireplace dealers, wholesalers, refractory supply stores? Where should I be looking? The big box stores around here are selling the half brick for about $2.50 each so I'm surprised to hear that $2.00 for a full brick is too much. Boarding and bricking even a small evaporator is surprisingly expensive.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I bought 40 off of my dealer last fall for $ 1.00 @. Last time I bought them in 2003, they were 65 cents.

[red maples]

fireplace stores will rip you off they can be as much as $4 for a split brick. look for places that sell bricks and pavers and masonary stuff like that (not the big box stores) they usually get fire bricks in pallets and are cheaper that way. I wouldn't spend more thn$1.60 for full and $1.75 for full bricks. I did look at what I paid it was $1.65 for split and $1.45 for full.

I ordered my arch board from bascoms and if I remember right it wasn't too expensive and cleaned up some of the old bricks that came with my evap. to save a few bucks.

[3rdgen.maple]

Like Red said Bascoms for arch board is a good place to get it. 8.75 or thereabouts for a 1x3 sheet. It is the brick that will cost you more. I got mine from a masonary supply store. Well under 2 bucks but supply and demand so what it cost in your state I have no idea. And I was a little taken back when I got my new arch and had to spend even more on brick and board for the inside, so what you are going through is or was the same for all of us. Trust me though you will me much happier doing it right than trying to save a few bucks and having to tear a dirty sooty arch apart and starting over.

[C.Wilcox]

Trust me though you will me much happier doing it right than trying to save a few bucks and having to tear a dirty sooty arch apart and starting over.

I have to admit that I'm somewhat conflicted. Saving a few bucks and playing around in a filthy mess really does sound like the Wilcox way of doing things. There's a sense of familiarity there that I would likely miss by doing it the right way. But, you guys are fairly persuasive so I think I'm going to go with the proper method this time. Having made numerous calls I was able to find archboard locally for $2.37 a square foot and split fire brick for $1.65 each. That brings my total down to within about $25 of the previous option of thick firebrick and no archboard. Not too bad.

[bradley153]

hey all,

Long time watcher with just a few post's. As far as the brick go, check your local suppliers that a brick mason would go to. I was just at one 2 days ago and found that 1/2 brick were .80 cents each. Thats a far cry from what my maple syrup supply house wants or even a big box store.

I am also in the process of making an arch to fit a pan that I picked up at an auction for a mear $25. I am having a local welder put a couple of baffels in it along with a couple of draw off ports.

My question to the board is, would you use ceramic blanket or arch board?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Blanket wont give you the support you want and need to keep the bricks from shifting and getting knocked loose. Blanket tends to push back when bricking so your fighting with it. I only had one layer of full brick in my 2 X 8 cemented tight to the arch sides and had the door and stack glowing but never the sides.

[bradley153]

Thanks for the input! ill be hedding to my local supplyer for some arch board....

[Z/MAN]

What kind of local business's would carry arch board?
Paul

[C.Wilcox]

I found mine at a refractory supply company. You'll want to ask for mineral wool.

[KenWP]

Just have to figure out what masonary and refactory is in french. I found one place I am going to check out tomorrow after school. They sell some kind of boiler supplies.

[3rdgen.maple]

My vote is for arch board guys. It is real easy to handle. Wilcox I am glad we talked you into it I think you will be happy. Ken I just thought all you did was say ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy at the end of your sentences and the french could understand what you are talking about.

[KenWP]

That's ehhhhhhhhhh not ayyyyyyy. And with the french you don't say the word right you could get a hammer instead of a loaf of bread.

[steamvalleyFarms]

Another question on insulating arches--I am setting up a 3 x 12 evaporator, in the firebox I plan on using Firebrick- but on the rampway what should I use. Previous owner said to use vermiculite, covered up with arch board. Presently I can't find a source for the vermiculite? Any Ideas? or could I put some fireblanket down and cover that up with arch board?

Thanks,
Rob

[steam maker]

set up my new pan last year. did the firebox, the ramp, and the dam with fire board. then went back and bricked it all. sides stay nice and i only wanted to do it once.

[steamvalleyFarms]

Does anyone know the approximate max temperature an evaporator w/blower runs? (I know their are numerous variables) But was just doing a google search on mineral wool board and other types of fire resistant boards and there is a whole bunch of different types with different temperature ratings.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I get as high as 1800 degrees in my stack aprox 8' from firebox with internal probe stack thermometer.

[Haynes Forest Products]

what is going to keep the wood from pounding the arch board or blanket to a pulp. I would run the brick up the ramp so the long peices dont damage it

[3rdgen.maple]

Insulate the whole thing then brick it. Arch board ceramic blanket whatever. When it comes time to do a cleanup at the end of the season it is a heck of alot easier to sweep of the bricks or vacuum them. Once you insulate it and brick it you are done. You don't have to go back and replace damaged arch board or replace vermiculite.

[steamvalleyFarms]

Thanks for all the info.

[TC matt]

It comes in 12"x24"2" and 2.5" panels. Apparently as hard as firebrick itself.

http://www.indfirebrick.com/sales.htm

[hydrogeo]

Another question on insulating arches--I am setting up a 3 x 12 evaporator, in the firebox I plan on using Firebrick- but on the rampway what should I use. Previous owner said to use vermiculite, covered up with arch board. Presently I can't find a source for the vermiculite? Any Ideas? or could I put some fireblanket down and cover that up with arch board?

Thanks,
Rob

You should be able to find vermiculite at any Agway or similar store. It's used to mix in with potting soil to retain moisture.

[Brookmaple]

Anyone have any advice on attaching insulating blanket to the sides of the arch? Is it just cut and fit snugly or is some sort of high temp silicone being used?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I welded 1/4-20 bults to the side and pushed the blanket to the walls and put SS wender washers and then nut. you can just drill thru the sides.