Newbie - Need specifics on a simple gravity set-up

[Goggleeye]

I need some help here on my tubing installation. I live in SE missouri, so visiting someone's operation is somewhat out of the question.

I'm trying to set up a simple gravity system, probably no main lines (not feasible, not yet anyway;) ) Just groups of 10 or so trees draining into 55 gal drums, 150 ft runs at the most. I ordered 50 of the SS BME 5/16 spouts.
I want to create a natural gravity vacuum if possible.

So if someone would, please fill in the blanks. Some of these questions might seem really stupid, but I want to get this set-up right the first time. I think I know what I'm doing, but I really need some reassurance.

1. Rigid or semi-rigid tubing?
2. Is the tubing self supporting, or should it be supported somehow?
3. If self supporting, does the tension not cause the fittings to pull out?
4. I start with a ____ at the upper end of my line.
5. I presume I come out of each tap with tubing to a Y or a T? which is best, if neither, explain.
6. I saw some y-end forks w/plug - would these work for coming in from 2 directions to the main line?
7. I end with a ________ at my 55 gal drum? How do I keep it tight and also drain in?
8. Exactly what is a drop line?
9. Lateral line?

Probably more Q's to come as I try to get set up. Any pics would help.
I've searched and searched and can't find the info I'm looking for, but if I've missed such a thread, please redirect.
Thanks for your help!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

31 gallon Rubbermaid totes are only a few bucks at Walmart and a lot easier to use and clean vs barrels and 20 of them stacked inside of each other and all the lids stacked on top wouldn't take up space of one 55 gallon barrel. Drill a hole in lid of the tote and force the tubing inside and it makes a nice rain tight seal.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I like the semi ridged so I can pull and streach it between the trees
Self supporting depends on how far the trees are apart? I have some trees that are 30-50 ft apart so pull it tight and small stick and tape are your friend. No matter how hard you pull it it will sag but is you get the first tree tap high and then each one lower until you hit the drum your fine. With the semi you can pull it quite tight before you will pull the tube off the fitting you might just break the T. You start the first tree with a Y fitting there are a few differant types so pick one. I use the ones that you cut a small peice of tube and attach it to the Y barbs and then the drop line fits on the inside fitting and then the lateral line is on the outside barbs and goes to the next tree. Each drop line is attached with a T so it can take the tension from the lines being pulled tight Ys would break like a wish bone. A drop line is the line from each tree into the latterals. The latteral line is the line that goes to each tree feeding the barrel or main lines. Place the barrels in a easy to reach location and then bring all the latterals/branch lines to tree that the barrel is near and use it to tie the tubing to to keep from pulling the barrel over. If you use barrels for the sap you can get liners that are food grade and are not garbage bags they are self supporting in the drum. Good Luck

[PerryW]

. (double post)

[PerryW]

1. Rigid or semi-rigid tubing?
Use semi-rigid if you are going to take them down each season
2. Is the tubing self supporting, or should it be supported somehow?
the 5/16" lines are self-supporting. Just tension against the trees.
3. If self supporting, does the tension not cause the fittings to pull out?
No, the fittings seem to hold on.
4. I start with a ____ at the upper end of my line.
The make special fitings for the end trees, or you can just make a loop around the tree with two tees. Hook a short piece of tubing to one tee with a spout on the other end. The other TEE is the output that goes downhill.
[B]5. I presume I come out of each tap with tubing to a Y or a T? which is best, if neither, explain.[/B
]Come out of each tap with a 24" piece of tubing and into a TEE.(this is a dropline)
6. I saw some y-end forks w/plug - would these work for coming in from 2 directions to the main line? I use "Y" fittings sometimes to combine two lateral lines into one.
7. I end with a ________ at my 55 gal drum? How do I keep it tight and also drain in?Most fittings have a small hole that you can attach a wire to. Just put a straight-through connector in the lower end of the line, put a wire through the hole in the connector and attach the wire to a convenient tree to keep the whole line tight.
8. Exactly what is a drop line?A drop line is a short piece of 5/16" tubing with a spout at one end and a TEE in the other end. The TEE is spliced into the lateral line at each tree.
9. Lateral line? THe lateral lines are the 5/16" lines the run from tree to tree and eventually into a mainline (1/2" or larger)

[KenWP]

Thanks Perry it's always nice to reveiw something twice. I like where he says 70 trees in 2010 and all the trees in 2011. Shoud add all the neighbours in 2012 like Theron.

[Goggleeye]

Thanks for the info! I placed my order. Now I'm sitting here sick because of the warm weather forecast and no supplies yet. And yes, I have been spying the neighbor's trees.

[Maplebrook]

Goog,
I agree with Perry, with the following comments...

6. I saw some y-end forks w/plug - would these work for coming in from 2 directions to the main line? That fitting is the one to use for starting and ending a lateral. The "y" parts are plugged, sap only flows through the 2 barbs that are in line. The plugged ends are to use a piece of tubing to wrap around the tree to support the lateral. Use the same fitting for question 4&7. The plug is for the spile on the drop line that would run into the fork.
If this is confusing, let me know. I'll take a picture of mine. A picture would be worth 90 words!!! Count them!:lol:

Darren

[nymapleguy607]

1. Rigid or semi-rigid tubing?
If you don't have a tool for insterting the fittings I would go with semi-rigid

2. Is the tubing self supporting, or should it be supported somehow?
The tubing will support itself the important thing is to get it tight

3. If self supporting, does the tension not cause the fittings to pull out?
Tension will not cause the fittings to pull out I have tried to pull fittings out and the line has collapsed before the fitting pulls off

4. I start with a ____ at the upper end of my line.
Y fitting

5. I presume I come out of each tap with tubing to a Y or a T? which is best, if neither, explain.
I come off my tap to a drop line then into a T

6. I saw some y-end forks w/plug - would these work for coming in from 2 directions to the main line?
No these are the fittings used to connect to your end tree

7. I end with a ________ at my 55 gal drum? How do I keep it tight and also drain in?
I run my lines into my tank I use tension grips and a ratchet stariner to keep them tight
8. Exactly what is a drop line?
Drop lines are the line between the tap and your lateral line

9. Lateral line?
Connects drop lines to the mainline

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Goog,
I agree with Perry, with the following comments...

6. I saw some y-end forks w/plug - would these work for coming in from 2 directions to the main line? That fitting is the one to use for starting and ending a lateral. The "y" parts are plugged, sap only flows through the 2 barbs that are in line. The plugged ends are to use a piece of tubing to wrap around the tree to support the lateral. Use the same fitting for question 4&7. The plug is for the spile on the drop line that would run into the fork.
If this is confusing, let me know. I'll take a picture of mine. A picture would be worth 90 words!!! Count them!:lol:

Darren

The "Y" forks are all I use for bringing the tubing into the mainlines and this way, there is no tension on the mainine from the lateral lines. Cost a little more, but well worth it in my opinion as I have used them for years.

[Goggleeye]

Goog,
I agree with Perry, with the following comments...

6. I saw some y-end forks w/plug - would these work for coming in from 2 directions to the main line? That fitting is the one to use for starting and ending a lateral. The "y" parts are plugged, sap only flows through the 2 barbs that are in line. The plugged ends are to use a piece of tubing to wrap around the tree to support the lateral. Use the same fitting for question 4&7. The plug is for the spile on the drop line that would run into the fork.
If this is confusing, let me know. I'll take a picture of mine. A picture would be worth 90 words!!! Count them!:lol:

Darren

Thanks for the clarification on that - I was wondering about those.

[maplemaple2020]

i made a picture of what one would be like

[Goggleeye]

Got my supplies today and set up 2 gravity feed lines (in the dark), one with 7 taps, one with 10.
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Everything went real smooth. (Except for getting the 4WD stuck at the first spot and having to leave it dead at the second spot. I only had the headlights on for a little more than an hour.:lol: ) Oh well, it's worth it. Hopefully, I'll have many gallons of sap tomorrow.

Mark

[Sugarmaker]

Mark,
Good questions I went through most of the same when I set up our gravity tubing. If I can help P.M. me. I also have a few pictures on our web site and some on photobucket of the lines.
Regards,
Chris

[Leadft]

Thanks everyone for all the usefull info... I plan on trying some of there things this year...
One questions I have is how many trees can U run with 5/16 line and 3 or 4 taps in a tree ???

I am wondering if I will need something larger if I have 12 tree's together... that could be 36 to 48 taps ???

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

If the slope is good, you will be fine. If it is nearly flat, you will have problems. Check with Brandon (WestVirginiaMapler), he is the gravity guru.

[mapleack]

Thanks everyone for all the usefull info... I plan on trying some of there things this year...
One questions I have is how many trees can U run with 5/16 line and 3 or 4 taps in a tree ???

I am wondering if I will need something larger if I have 12 tree's together... that could be 36 to 48 taps ???

Leadft, if you're running gravity tubing I still wouldn't put more than 10 taps per 5/16 line, yes you can create natural vaccum with more, but from my own experiences I'd rather keep the tap count low. As to 3 or 4 taps per tree, be sure you know about tapping guidelines. There are very few if any trees that are big enough for 4 taps. I put one tap in a 10 inch tree and dont put a second one unless the tree is so big that I cant reach around it. You don't necessarily get more sap from more taps per tree.

[PerryW]

I only put 4 taps in a MONSTER tree. Most of my trees have one tap. If they are 18" or bigger, I put two.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Others are right, probably the fewer taps on a lateral the better but you could put 48 on one if you were in a bind and running behind and didn't have extra time to run a mainline or didn't have the extra $$$. I have had as many as 50 on a lateral without any problems. 48 taps on 12 trees is a lot unless they are about 4' in diameter or bigger.