Thermostat

[Kevin]

First year using Vacuum and want to use a thermostat to get it to turn on and off. I have a 5hp Universal but have no idea how to get a thermostat to make is work. What kind of thermostat do I get? From where? What should I expect to spend for something like this? What is needed to jumpstart a large pump like this due to the amount of amps it takes to get going. Thanks

[syrupmaker]

Kevin.....T-stat from Graingers,$42.00 stock # 4E047. After that things get kind of difficult. Give me a call (716-867-2866) and i'll see what we can figure out for ya.

Rick

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

I'm using one fro McMaster Carr


#1846k26


http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=1846K26&pagenum=563

[gmcooper]

Hope you guys have better luck with t-stats for vacuum pumps than I did.
I fried 2 in less than 3 days. They came from grainger. First one was replaced and the second is still in place just the contacts are welded now. I had 3 hp motor but the amp draw cooked the thermostat. Can't seem to find Grainger catalog now but it was a Dayton brand and was the highest amp rated model (15amp I think). A programable one would be ideal as you can set the start temp at say 38 and the shut off temp at say 31. This would avoid running while trees are still frozen and yet allow you to catch the good run on the late afternoon/evening cool down.

[syrupmaker]

Kevin and gmcooper....You want to use a motor starting contactor with the t-stat and wire it so the t-stat controls the pull/holding coil. The contactor has the heavy contacts to take the high starting amperages to kick the motor in. Rule of thumb is to look at the motor nameplate to see what the full load running amps are. Multiply that # by 3 and that is what is required to start that motor.It's only for a breif second,but the points on the contactor are made to take the amperage. If you handy and can wire it up yourself it is a lot cheaper to by the contactor and box and mount it yourself. Like Mapleman,you can add all the lights, buzzers and bells if you wish.

Rick

[mapleman3]

Kevin, here is a picture of my control panel I designed, it's pretty simple just a few relays a transformer and tstat control, Maybe a bit over kill but I like it. it's also good I can add controls to it as I see fit.
http://www.desjardinsmaple.com/Control_Panel3.JPG

Here is a link to my Vacuum setup on my web site

http://www.desjardinsmaple.com/improvements_to_vacuum_system.htm

[powerdub]

Rick has the answer. I run a johnson conrols A419 t-stat. One reason is you start your pump at a much higher temperature than you shut it off at. Instead of a transformer like Mapleman uses, I just use 110V as my control voltage. (my transformer burned up a while ago and I had a 110V coil on another motor starter) I have not had so much as a hiccup with that t-stat. If you are not sure about all this please see an electrician. It would take them no time at all to get you set up and they may even have something laying around that will work for you. By the way, using a motor starter has more advantages like better motor overload protection and will stand up to short cycling on those mornings the temps don't come right up on. I might add the A419 has programmable off cycle delay built in so your pump won't bang on and off. I think they are about $60.00.

Nice wiring job Jim!!

[mapleman3]

Thanks Scott most of the stuff I used was either stuff I had laying around or cobbed off other jobs... freebies are great. Yes I agree with a motor starter with heaters for protection and for sure if I come across one for cheap or "FREE" I will use one.
My relays are rated too close to the running amperage of the vac pump, so the wiring may change.. but it gets me in the "ready" stage.

[themapleking]

Anyone got any ideas on how you would make a auto start for us that use gas engine driven pumps.

[mapleman3]

sure a nice comfy seat heat and a 30 pack of beer and alarm clock... then hope the guy will sit there through the whole season :wink:

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

what about a starter for a grenerator?? RICK??? anything?? there has to be something that starts a gas generator when the power kicks out!!

[brookledge]

Using a timer for a starter would be hard unless the gas engine is fuel injected. Most engines that I have seen in the sugaring business are not brand new, easy starting engines including some that I have used. If you have to manually choke it that would be hard to do. I'm sure there is a way to do it but it doesn't sound easy
Keith

[Kevin]

Thanks for all the advice nice to have this site to go to to learn from the experts

[syrupmaker]

Brookledge hit it hard on the head there.Choking is the hard part of auto starting.Otherwise your t-stat could control a relay to hit the starter,Tap into the signal wire on the ignition,When engine starts,signal wire tells relay to quitcranking starter.

Rick

[Parker]

how about a small diesel engin,,,Lister,,Hann,,Dutez???plus they would last forever in that application

[syrupmaker]

Parker.....Good idea,never thought of diesel.No choke needed,but do they have glow plugs for cold starting? That would be easy to do though too.

:idea:

T-stat calls for engine to start,relay closes to heat glow plugs,timer times the heat cycle ,then another set of contacts close to kick the starter in,timer times out dropping starter.

Easy huh, now find the goodies to do it all for free. OK OK Mapleman would be the guy to find it for free i'm sure. :wink:

[mapleman3]

hmmm gotta get the wheels movin :wink:

[Parker]

Those types of small diesels are what they use in portable sine boards,,portable light plants,,,,see them for sale in Uncle Henrys,{Last weeks issue had a bunch in it},State auction,,Big construction companies,,,any one of those applications the moters are hooked to a generator, have a fuel tank and a battery pack, electric start,,you could run an electric releaser and pump if you wanted to go that route,,and mount it all on the trailer it came with??end of the season, tow it home

[mapleman3]

true may as well go electric motor for the vac pump with that type of generator..



Picked up a nice used(free) contactor for the control board, sucker will allow up to 50 amps through it... no worrys about amp draw thru my contacts now for the vac pump!!!! love that free stuff!!

[brookledge]

To bad stand buy generators wern't so expensive. they would work great in the woods. They can be programed to start and stop when you want or you could set up by temp. Then all you would need is electric motor to run the vacuum.

[mapleman3]

Exactly my thinking!! we're on the same page keith...