A different scenerio and what may happen.

[mountainvan]

all is happyness

[PATheron]

Van- Your definitely right about one thing. All my buddies are farmers and they all drink beer and lean against pickup trucks. Theron:)

[smitty76]

a lot of pickups and beer around these parts as well

[Gary R]

I drank my beer yesterday outside leaning against my tractor. I was doing TSI work in the woods. I also used a hammer and a PLASTIC felling wedge. I had on the proper safety equipment for using a hammer. Safety glass and gloves. I guess drinking the beer while cutting wasn't too safe:)

[NH Maplemaker]

Now I know why I have my wife fill all our Jugs and put all our plastic spiles in ! Oh waite I don't use any plastic spiles. I think I will have her open the beer from now on ,you never know what pop tab could do to man! LOL

But this does remind me of a story about someone or some company making coffee to hot or something like that ! Ouch! $$ BIG BUCKS $$ Jim L.

[jrthe3]

here one that happen a few years back a drunk driver runns off the road about 30 feet hit a huge hemlock he is hirt pretty bad he sues the township cause the tree was to close to the road and wins

[3% Solution]

Morning Van,
Yes good things to think about!!!
Keep in mind these scenarios are ficticious.
They are one of those hypothetical situations.
Van are you going to be ok, that must have hurt like hell, and then only to injure your eye!!!!!

The difference between this and the coffee situation is that you had put your faith in the manufacturer / developer to make the product correctly and they failed to do so. Basically you bought a defective product.
No different than vehicle call backs.
So the lawyer is up to you, how are you made up inside.
To sue or not to sue that is the question.
If you sue, just think, you may get some money for some old useless junk you don't use anyway!!!!! :lol:

Now with the coffee, that person would have asked for a "HOT" cup of coffee not an "ICED" coffee. So the blame lays on the purchaser.

Knowing you Jim, I agree, that person had no ground to stand on for a lawsuit.

Just my thoughts on a cool morning.

Dave

[Haynes Forest Products]

Van All you said was valid and we all have gotten a bad product at some time in our lives. Its what we do after the product fails and what the manf does after they are made aware of the problem. I would bet that Leader would without hesitation replace the product if we asked them to. Now I could be wrong because I have never delt with them. I also believe that when you do explaine as Van has any company would rethink the early release of the product.

Its not the end of the company if they were to swap out the product and CURE them for resale. My wife gets pissed at me because I do complain when I feel that I havent gotten the service that I think I deserve. I start out quietly in private. When I feel that Im getting the brush off I escalate how I approch the situation. I dont take the first answer as the final answer and I also dont condem a company because the parts department person gives me the run around. NOW for the money shot AFTER a company decides to die on Their sword and not work with me on a simple resolution to a simple problem I will not go quietly. So lets give it some time ( 5 days ) and see what happens

[KenWP]

I personally will not be drinking beer let alone leaning on a pickup truck. Cost to much for the new paint job to have people leaning on it anytime soon.
I would say if a guy is so lazy he has to sit down well filling jugs he probbably is to lazy to do much else either so a burn wouldn't slow him down anymore then he is already.
If somebody hammers in spouts so hard that if they break they fly apart he probbably splits 50% of his trees when tapping and hardly gets much sap anyways.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Oh This brings up a funny situation This could not happen ( the breaking ) to Wagner on Dirty Jobs Because he only pushes and twists his spouts in the tree. Please see the new thread I started under INSERTING SPOUTS

[Dill]

Van- Your definitely right about one thing. All my buddies are farmers and they all drink beer and lean against pickup trucks. Theron:)

Which leads to a very serious problem with new trucks. They are too tall to do the proper farmer lean. It was always facing the bed with arms resting across the bed rails.While you talk across Like this

:[]. assuming 3 people, :[]: 4, and .[]. 2 respectively, more than 4 the tailgate must be used. However with the height of current trucks. Not only is the bed rail lean removed, but one can't not reach a 6 pack in the bed, even if one is freakishly tall enough to lean on a bed rail!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im 5'8" so I just put my chin on the rail or with my bad Knees I get first dibs on the tail gate:lol: But I digress

[red maples]

so with the taller truck there is a definite possibility of hitting a tooth and chipping it while drinking from said beer container. Due to lack of clearence between the bottom of said beer container and the side bed rail of said pickup truck. As well as the tailgate braking because things just are built the way the use to be and spilling said beer:cry: .

The container of which said beer is consumed from is irrelavent, but should not be an import in a glass bottle but a bud light can for this senario beacuse if said glass container is in the bed of said large pickup, there is a possiblity that it could fall over while driving on a farm road and break said glass beer container. And you would then be sad and you can'st call the lawyer because your drunk and you don't get cell phone service because you live too far out in the sticks.

Wow ok we really need to tap trees soon, you think??? :rolleyes:

[dnap63]

Van made a verygood point. There are sereral scenarios that could impact the way most people do things in the maple business. I have thought for a long time we are one lawyer away from regulations that would put a lot of us out of the retail business. It is one thing if a producer has an accident, and another if the person that got hurt is helping (even if not getting paid ) you better pray you have insurance and workmans comp. Trust me they will come knocking and the fines are big if you don't. The worst case is if a customer has a problem then all bets are off. I have been making syrup for over 30 years and for the most part many people are still doing the things the same way they did 30 years ago. Change has come slowly, this goes for the manufacturers and dealers as well. One of the reasons for this is how small the maple industry is. The total dollars generated for the entire industry is a mere drop in the bucket compared to most. Don't get me wrong, small is good, you can fly under the radar until something happens. The trouble is when that accident happens and it will, we may be forced to make a big jump from the sugar shack to an inspected facility licensed to manufacture a food product.

[peacemaker]

so safety equipment for said beer drinker is a mouth gaurd

[Sugarmaker]

Humm? I do set down and can syrup. It is fairly close to my lap too. Off to look for or invent a canning crotch guard for 2010 season:)
Also a full face shield for tapping may be in order too. I should have one of those now for all the stainless work I have been doing lately!

No Van, I'm not making light of your topics. I think that they are right on and bring safety awareness to our industry.
If I remember right Matt Emericks wife had very serious burns from hot maple syrup last year. Shes not the first and will not be the last.

I also may limit who does the canning. It would be much better for me to get burned than my grandson!
I think I could design and build in a canning over flow protection feature on the base of the canner to at least deflect a large portion of a gallon of hot syrup away from the person canning.

Darn. Got so wrapped up I forgot about the beer drinking against the truck! Even being 6'-1' this rising truck bead thing forced me to get the Ford Step Up tail gate feature. Which doubles as a convenient place to rest your butt and drink the beer while leaning back on the tail gate! Another great Ford breakthrough!

Thanks,
Chris

[smitty76]

sugarmaker, I want the ford step up tail gate feature, sounds like a truck leaning, beer drinking technology breakthrough.:)

I also set down when i bottle. I guess when you bottle alot of syrup its not so lazy to sit in front of the machine you operate.

and van, our society is full of those how what to sue. Were I work is so osha regulated that it is hard to be productive, and it is because of the law suits that it is mandated to be this way. which will happen to making syrup or anything that draws in the lawyers and such. Any way we can reduce the risk is a good thing and i also believe that what a few others said in this post about what ae you going to do, sue or not. I would not sue unless i new that it was intentional nelgect.

[red maples]

ok so joking around aside...

when I first asked about rules and selling, inspections etc. coming from a restaurant background I was very shocked that there isn't more rules and regs in place. With so many more folks making maple products than ever before I am sure its coming...could be years away but it will be here some day. look throughout history it only takes 1 lawsuit to change legislature on how things are done...so enjoy the freedoms that we have soon the powers that be will step in and there will be yearly fees(which were already talked about this summer) yearly inspections, health department inspections, liscencing, permits, required classes, tests to take, and the list goes on and on and on...

[DrTimPerkins]

Anyone who is concerned that their CV adapters are not cured properly should CAREFULLY follow these instructions. You should see results in approximately 1 week. WARNING. Uncured adapters may fly apart if hit sharply with a hammer. To avoid this possibility, please keep all hammers out of the reach until adapters are fully cured.

If you wish to follow the accelerated curing procedure, skip directly to Step 11.

ADAPTER CURING INSTRUCTIONS

1. Round up the bags your adapters are in. Poke 4-5 small holes in each bag. WARNING. Take great care not to poke yourself while accomplishing this step. If you are not physically capable of this step, please find trained assistance.

2. Find a box. CAUTION. Be sure your eyes are open and the lights are on so you do not walk into walls while looking for said box.

3. Put open bags of CV adapters in the box. Tape closed. WARNING. Tape is sticky -- do not stick yourself to the box.

4. Write your own name and address on the box in the TO: area. Be sure to include a return shipping address as well. DANGER. Writing implements can be sharp and/or may leave indelible marks on skin.

5. Wait 5 days. CAUTION. Do not engage in dangerous activities during the required 5 day waiting period.

6. Go to the U.S. Post Office and mail the box. WARNING. Walking or driving to the U.S. Post Office may involve crossing the road. Be sure to look both ways before proceeding.

7. Wait for the mailman to come and deliver your package. This may take a day or two. CAUTION. Waiting may induce sleepiness. Do not drive or engage in other strenuous activity when tired.

8. After mailman comes, go out to the mailbox and get the package. NOTICE. It may be cold outside. Please dress appropriately.

9. Open package. DANGER. Opening package my require sharp objects. Be sure to read all instructions before using the sharp object to open package. If you do not understand those instructions....chew a hole in the package (NOTE -- chewing through box assumes you used a food-grade box in Step 2).

10. Take bags of CV adapters out of box -- they are now fully cured.

------

OPTIONAL ACCELERATED ADAPTER CURING INSTRUCTIONS

11. Open bag. Place 2-3 tablespoons of water in each bag and reseal bag. CAUTION. Water is wet and may induce drowning if used improperly.

12. Wait 2 days. NOTICE. See CAUTION in Step 7 above.

13. Adapters are cured.

-----

Legal warning. The above instructions should not be carried out by young children or people of questionable intelligence and skill insufficient to complete the required tasks. If you fit either of these categories, please return the product to the place of purchase.

[red maples]

oohhhh wow you've done this before??!!! Your good at it!!!

[Smitty]

making maple syrup without beer is like, well, fishing without beer.
not to make it sound like i am an alcoholic, i drink in moderation ( i like
to run a safe and professional operation). It just seems to be part of
the process. well i guess i need to look into some beer drinking safety
equipment.

[Dill]

Dr Tim, I thank you for your post. However much like the man who thought the had written the perfect county and western song all those years ago only to find out he forgot about Mamma, trains, and pickup trucks.
I'd like to point out that you forgot the crux of the issue, can I lean on my truck and have a beer anytime before steps 1 and 20? Where could I fit that in and would the carbonation of said beverage accelerate the curing process? And how difficult is this task of curing using a locally know scale? That being the six pack scale of home improvement?

[cncaboose]

Van and Dr P, YOu guys just gave me my laughs for the day and I don't even use plastic spiles or tubing. Well done.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thats why I only drink Light bear and Because I live at 6400' above sea level most ov the year. Im able to consume more beer than most ove you:razz: I also find that most of my screw ups in the sugar house were commited during the morning hours when I was under the influance of Coke Classic:mad: Im heading to Michigan to diliver equipment for the week to catch up on my beer drinking. Im leaving the wife and taking the kids so I will get a break:rolleyes:

[Dill]

So beer isn't safe?
What about this bi-hydrogen Monoxide chemical he wants me to put in the bag? Will the syrup still be organic after the secret curing agent is used?

[Smitty]

it is not the beer that is not safe, its the applicant that is irresponsible
enough to not realize that he is not above 6400' sea level, and can only
drink half the beer Haynes can. that is why it only takes me 400 taps
to support my drinking habit, unlike Haynes, who has to tap a stagering
1100.


happy tapping and drinking gentlemen.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Now Smitty was that a pun I detected at the end of your post or have you seen me walking in the wood from GOOGLE EARTH

[Smitty]

Haynes,
no pun intended, we spend a bunch of money on syrup making beverages,
if we add one more 12-pack to the already intoxicating amount of
consumtion, i will have to add another 200+ taps to my operation. It is
amazing, the sap to syrup ratio is about 30-40 gals of sap to 1 gal of syrup.
the beer to syrup ratio is approx the same, 30-40 cans of beer to 1 gal
of syrup. (P.S. unless it is a bad year:cry: )