collecting sap!

[twoodrum]

Hey guys.....I'm looking too make some syrup this year.....I've made lots of sorghum syrup over the years but never tried maple. Last year, we made an attempt at collecting sap using clear tubing for spiles and plastic bags...worked great but we started too late in the season as the buds were popping already so we didnt follow thru.
We're pretty tight on finances here so buying equipment is out of the question....we're gonna use the tubing into plastic milk jugs for collecting...we can tie the milk jugs too the trees loosely and run the tubing into the cap thru a drilled hole. In collecting, just unscrew the cap and dump it into 25 gallon plastic containers we already have.
Now comes the part I need some help with.....how do we cook it down as we dont have a fancy evaporater and I dont want too fire up the sorghum house as it would take wayyyyy more sap too feed it than we could collect in an efficient manner.
We're just looking too jug up maybe 5 gallons for our personal use this year......

1. When do we start tapping.
2. How do we store the sap until we get enough too cook down.....I'm assuming that leaving it in the plastic drums in the cold will keep it but will it freeze?.
3. What is the best way too cook down the sap into syrup? I have a big (15 gallon) cast iron kettle. I also have 3 copper apple butter kettles. We have several stainless steel stock pots (3 - 4 gallons each). Thats what I have too work with......are we going too be able to use any of this or do I need too look for something else?

I hope next year too enhance the operation if it works this year and maybe invest in a good used evaporater......but money wont allow it this year.

Any idears???? Thanks in advance for help.

[PerryW]

I've seen people cut a small 1" square hole in the 1 gal. milk jug near the top and then hang it right on the plastic spout. (no tubing required) It just hangs right on the tree and you can take the cap off and dump into a pail.

Five gallons of syrup means boiling down 200-250 gallons of sap, so that's a lot of boiling in 5 gal pails. A Small flat pan set on a cinder block arch works good.

[gator330]

twoodrum,

Get moving man!!!! All your answers are in this forum to much to put into one post. Top of this page there is a SEARCH section. Type in a few key words and every thing you need to know is in here. Better get going!!!There are some members from West Virgina on here lots of info for your area. Get lots of sap and fire up the sorghum rig. I don't like to store sap more then Three days it will sour. How many taps can you get???? Five gallons of syrup means you need 215 gallons of sap at 2% sugar more sap if less sugar. Figure ten gallons of sap per tap for the season. or 1 quart of syrup per tap. Some days one tap may run two gallons plus. Be dumping jugs a few times a day. May want to run that tubing into somthing bigger...

Any way do a few searchs and see what you come up with. My self and others will be more then glad to tell you what and how. Don;t mean we know what were talking about, but be glad to help!!!

[maplehound]

My first year I boiled in cast Iron kettles. It worked great but I did get up to 4 of them going at once to keep up. We made about 7 gallons of syrup that year. However once we got about 2-300 gallons of sap boiled down to about 1/2 a kettle full we would finish it in the house. It took alot of time but we did it.

[C.Wilcox]

twoodrum,

I don't see why it won't work. As Perry said, it may be slow going using kettles to boil in, but I did it that way for two years and made about 2-3 gallons of syrup each year. I actually used an enameled pot designed to be used as a hot water bath for canning. I set it up on some concrete blocks, built a fire under it and boiled away. It was slow and my syrup was smokey, but it was still good in my opinion. 5 gallons of syrup may be expecting a bit much seeing as how that's over 200 gallons of sap. You'll need to have about 15 to 20 taps to get that much and if you go with the 15 gallon kettle you're going to be boiling every available moment to keep up so storage won't really be an issue. Just try to keep it in pails in the shade or bury them in snow if you've got it. Keep in mind that whatever you decide to use to boil in is going to be covered in soot so I wouldn't use good stainless stock pots from the house. Your milk jugs will fill up fast on a good day so you may need to empty them every morning and night.

As to when to tap, maybe WESTVIRGINIAMAPLE (aka. Brandon) can give some advice. He taps in WV I believe.

[gator330]

What size is the set up you make sorghum on??? Kettle over wood or a flat pan type set up? Don't know much about sorghum, make it like a batch at a time don't you? You may already be sitting on a perfect set up for what you want to do with the maple. Brandon is in wv I bet he'll jump in soon and tell you the date and time he has tapped for the last few year. Were I am it's Often March when we tap your season could be over by then.???

[firetech]

How big is your sorghum evaporator? I make both maple and sorghum also. I have a 30inx10ft arch but put a 29x82 in flat pan on the arch and cooked down 65 gal of juice to about 10 gals and finished the juice/syrup in a SS banquite pan on the gas turkey fryer. It took 2 hours to cook the juice down before I went to the SS pan. you could do the same with the maple sap. Just tap enough trees to get a good quanity of sap and cook for a while till you've consentrated it down to use a smaller pan. We made 100 gal of maple and 6 gal of sorghum in 09

[gator330]

Twoodrum,

See how this works, Now were asking you the questions!!!!

[twoodrum]

Thanks for the replies.......I've got a lot of research too do and today is a good day too do it! Wow....8* here right now...not too good for outdoor sports!

We have access to more than 100 trees that are larger than 14" diameter.....alot of them are huge older maples. So tap no's shouldnt be a problem.

We have tractors with wagons and 6 of the 25 gallon plastic barrels......and I can get more if needed so storage shouldnt be a problem.

If you guys think that it will work better.....I can use the pan for our cane mill.....it is an 3' X 8' pan with 16 bars. Sides are 6" and already has a nice firebox under it.

[firetech]

Get 5 gal buckets to tube to you will be happier and longer collection periods they are free to a buck at your local grocery store bakery. Use plastic spiles and tubing to get the sap in the bucket.

[twoodrum]

the cane mill is a continous operation...we cut a few wagon loads of cane stalks and run the mill at the same time we're cooking in the evaporater.....as the juice comes in one side and starts cooking down, it winds down thru 6" wide channels...there are 16 bars in our pan...by the time it gets too the last couple of bars, we have molasses.......I fine tune it in the last bar and pull the stop plug and run off a bar at a time too be jarred up.

We chase the sorghum sap at the end of a run with a wet rag pulled thru the pan......water behind it......juice in front...works good too keep from losing juice at the end.....but with the maple, we could cook it down at the end too a certain point and pull the fire and then finish it in smaller cookers. Hey...this could work with minimal work involved in getting set up!!!.

[firetech]

Ok I just read your last post. Your pan will work it should boil 1 gal/hr for each sqft. so you are 24gal/hr. Can you level your pan? also can you rotate your pan so that the draw off valve is in the front corner? If you can you can make this work as a contious flow flat pan and make good syrup run it 1 1/2 - 2 inches deep and your good to go. Do you have a thermometer port at your dram off valve? Or you can batch cook with it and cook maybe 300 - 400 gals of sap to concentrate and finish in a smaller pan.

[gator330]

Thanks for the replies.......I've got a lot of research too do and today is a good day too do it! Wow....8* here right now...not too good for outdoor sports!

We have access to more than 100 trees that are larger than 14" diameter.....alot of them are huge older maples. So tap no's shouldnt be a problem.

We have tractors with wagons and 6 of the 25 gallon plastic barrels......and I can get more if needed so storage shouldnt be a problem.

If you guys think that it will work better.....I can use the pan for our cane mill.....it is an 3' X 8' pan with 16 bars. Sides are 6" and already has a nice firebox under it.

Five gallons is all you want!!!! You could be making 105 gallons!!!!!! A 3x8 !!!!! Tap every thing you got, taps cost .39 a short tube and any thing that can hold water, a garbage can (Clean one) a tote a pal a $45 roll of tube and run them to the 25 gallon barrels, you'll make money if you have a pan like that at your disposal!!!!!!!

[KenWP]

I used milk jugs and other kind of jugs and I found the easyiest way was to hand them off the taps with a look of string with a short length of tube into the jug. Just had to lift off and dump. The hole on the jugs so small nothing gets into the jug anyways.

[brookledge]

If money is tight as you said then you should definately look at the pans you have. That being said there is a guy near me that uses a turkey fryer with propane burner and he told me he likes to make some for his families own use. However he told me it takes about the same money in propane to make a gallon as if buying it. He did it for the kids to have fun with it.
So that is why I'm suggesting using what you have especially if you can use free fuel like wood instead of having to buy fuel.
It would also be good to go and look at other sugarhouses even if there are not many around you there are some. Make a day trip out of it and it will help you see how others do it.
Keith

[PerryW]

Yup, my cousin would use $40 worth of propane in a turkey per gallon of syrup. Kind of takes the profit out of it.

[twoodrum]

Well.....I've decided that if we're gonna do this, might as well go full blown and use what we've got.....the only expense will be collecting as we have plenty of free firewood ready too go....the mill pan is already spotless clean and ready too go...as is the make house and fire box. I guess we were already squared away with a sugar house and didnt even realize it.
The pan is fully adjustable on all four corners so working depth of sap wont be a problem.
I also have a fellow that has a water tank you haul in the bed of a truck and a trailer too put it on.......so that takes care of hauling large quantities of sap if needed.
I also have a tranfer pump (12 volt) too pull sap from the 15 gallon plastic drums) I thought they were 20 or 25 but they're 15) so I could tube each small sugar bush too those and then just pump into the larger tank too get it too the sugar house.
Hey.....I'm all set up and havent even started.

Last year, we drilled 7/16 inch holes about 1-1/2 to 2" depth and inserted plastic tubing instead of spiles....it seemed too work fine....and once removed, the holes healed over. Should I go ahead and buy the spiles too insert and what is the advantages of spiles over just inserting the clear tubing into the holes? They didnt leak around the holes either.

But I'll go ahead and order spiles if you guys think it would be beneficial.
I know I would gain the advantage of tying the jugs too the spiles instead of around the trees.

[gator330]

twoodrum,

The spiles will be a good deal better. I still don't think your going to like the plastic jugs. Something bigger if you can't pick up every day you won't loose sap. How many are you planing on tapeing?

[C.Wilcox]

Well.....I've decided that if we're gonna do this, might as well go full blown and use what we've got.....the only expense will be collecting as we have plenty of free firewood ready too go....the mill pan is already spotless clean and ready too go...as is the make house and fire box. I guess we were already squared away with a sugar house and didnt even realize it.
The pan is fully adjustable on all four corners so working depth of sap wont be a problem.
I also have a fellow that has a water tank you haul in the bed of a truck and a trailer too put it on.......so that takes care of hauling large quantities of sap if needed.
I also have a tranfer pump (12 volt) too pull sap from the 15 gallon plastic drums) I thought they were 20 or 25 but they're 15) so I could tube each small sugar bush too those and then just pump into the larger tank too get it too the sugar house.
Hey.....I'm all set up and havent even started.

Last year, we drilled 7/16 inch holes about 1-1/2 to 2" depth and inserted plastic tubing instead of spiles....it seemed too work fine....and once removed, the holes healed over. Should I go ahead and buy the spiles too insert and what is the advantages of spiles over just inserting the clear tubing into the holes? They didnt leak around the holes either.

But I'll go ahead and order spiles if you guys think it would be beneficial.
I know I would gain the advantage of tying the jugs too the spiles instead of around the trees.

So just to summarize, you have all the trees you could want, an evaporator already in place, a sugar house built, bulk sap storage ready and waiting, plenty of firewood, and willing helpers? It appears that the only thing you don't have is actual spiles and buckets. Sounds like a dream come true. If I were you, I'd invest in some decent quality spiles and scrounge up some clean 3 or 5 gallon buckets. Yes, it will cost you a few dollars, but with the set up you already have you'll be able to sell a few gallons of syrup and make back all of your initial investment in the spiles in no time. And if you go with a metal spile you'll be able to use it for many, many years. Provided you don't invite Haynes over to drive them in. :)

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If you get a chance, run up for a couple of hours sometime and I could show you more in a couple of hours than you could learn in years of trial and error. Just seeing things in person and putting your hands on things is a huge advantage to trying to visualize in your head since you aren't very familiar with syrup equipment. I live just outside of Beckley and my operation is about half way between Beckley and Lewisburg 1.5 miles directly off I-64.