Maple Winter Institute

[dschultz]

Just seeing who's going to the meeting in Neillsville on Jan 16th

[lpakiz]

Danny,
I signed up and sent in the money. Hope to get there Friday evening also.
Look for a tan "Willard" cap....

[jfroe939]

Heard they're a little short on maple queen contestants so if you guys put on your best Sunday dresses and dabble on some makeup, you might get yourself a crown Saturday! I will be in attendance as well. Erin Nutter from the state inspector's crew will be presenting her topic supposedly around 10am-ish.

[dschultz]

Larry
I'm planning in going Friday to the fish fry,and then to see want they have on display.Haven't decided yet.

jfroe939
It sounds like you've done these contest before.So I think it would be best you do it this year,so me and Larry know what we have to do for next year.
And don't forget to shave your legs.
Just kidding but had to say it.

I'll be wearing a red CWIRA cap with black and white flags on the front.
Danny

[Pete S]

is this open to the public?

is there a web link for the event?

thanks!

[jfroe939]

Pete,

Go here http://www.wismaple.org/
That's the link for the Wisconsin Maple Syrup Producer's Association (WMSPA)
They're hosting the Winter Maple Institute in Neillsville this Saturday at the American Legion. I think I've got links on there from past events. (I'm the so-called webmaster for the site) Registration for the event is $16 for members or $26 for non-members, but if you become a member that day then the $10 extra fee for non-members is waived. I think the price is at the high end of what you'd want to pay, but it's mostly for food and then for the cost of renting the facility, too. Registration through mail is probably a bit too late, BUT feel free to show up before 9 am and ask for the WMSPA director (Gretchen) or the treasurer (Lloyd) and you can slide in no problem. The only reason they wanted early registration was to determine the amount of food for the meal that was needed. It's a really good opportunity to talk to maple equipment vendors and regular folks who tap. Lots of good people. Nobody's an outsider at this event so feel free to come. A lady from the state will be there this year and she's giving a talk around 10am or so about inspection rules and the supposed strictor enforcement of that this year and after lunch there's round-table events where you'll be able to ask questions in small groups to get whatever question you have out there and answered. I think there's another round-table on tubing and probably some of the more basic ones for beginners to tapping, too. The whole thing is just a real good opportunity to get "the vibe" about the local syrup industry prior to the season. Membership to join WMSPA is $30 if I remember correctly. No pressure to join! No Jehovah's Witness stuff goes on here! Whatever else you want to know I could probably answer for ya as I usually get fed most of the info to put on the site. Aside from that, does anyone here sell sap? If so, what's the going rate and is it expected to be the same or going up? Just wondered if anyone has heard anything. All indications are that demand is still very strong for syrup, but it's not as "dire" as it was before last season when Quebec had a pretty horrible '08 as far as stockpiles go. I'm sure it depends on regional supplies, too. Jason

[Jim Schumacher]

Danny, Angela and I will be there. See you then

[Pete S]

We just might wander by ourselves.

[Pete S]

Went there and did that. Very nice turnout. Good vendors, nice people.

We left just a bit after lunch.

Glad we went.

[jfroe939]

The executive director (Gretchen) said there were over 120 that attended. Looked like a very good showing. If you happended to see me, I was the guy in the blue coat taking pictures (standing) to the right side while Erin Nutter was answering questions from the audience. In case anyone didn't get the handout about "inspection guidelines" I'll scan that and post it online at www.wismaple.org I've also got her contact info in case you finally thought of the perfect question to ask after the meeting was over. All I know is that I'd really like to get a press filter sooner than later. Someday.

[lpakiz]

Went to the meeting today and met some really nice folks. Erin Nutter did a great job of reassuring small producers that they wouldn't be pulling the rug out from under us by enforcing the regulations unreasonably, and that inspections would be completed in time for selling syrup. Hope everyone made it home safely.

[Rhino]

Larry, just wondering what Erin Nutter was getting at when he said that the small producers won't have the rug pulled out from under them?? Did he mean that the "packers" will only make sure the large producers are inspected and licensed and will buy small quantities under the table so to speak? I hope this is not the case, My opinion is right across the board no exceptions. I wasn't at the meeting so I am really curious now. Will check with other producers who may of went and hear what they think. Thanks...Rhino

[lpakiz]

Rhino,
First, the phrase "pull the rug...." was mine, not HERS
Erin gave us the inpression that her department was not going to unreasonably enforce the regulations that are already on the books.
For example, she said that the requirement for an evaporator room floor that is "smooth, durable and maintained in a clean condition" (per the handout she had) would include a floor of silo staves. (Evaporator room only, not the finishing/packageing room) Seems pretty lenient to me.
This is what she is instructing her inspectors to approve.
When pressed as to whether inspections would be completed in time to SELL syrup, she FIRMLY stated "I guarantee it"
Stainless steel counter tops are not required in the packaging area. She pointed to a counter behind her (formica) and said that would be acceptable.
A double sink with a 3rd separate hand wash sink is OK, but she added that they PREFER to see a triple sink with a 4th handwash sink. Doesn't seem at all harda$$ to me.
I did not get the impression that there would be any dicrimination between large or small producers when it came to getting inspected and licensed to sell bulk to packers.

[Rhino]

Larry, thanks for clearing that up, I hope all the Wis. inspectors will be understanding like Errin. Mine is out of the Saint Germain Wis. office. Met her in Oct. for a pre inspection walk thru. Nice person to deal with. Heres a question, can the Wis. packers buy syrup that is not inspected and licensed in Wis.? even say a Minn. producer has a Minn. license, is that the same? Was that question ever brought up at the meeting?

[dschultz]

Larry,
It was really nice to meet you at the meeting had a good time.I'd like to come and see your setup if and when I have time too.
The only thing that will be hard for the small producer is the cost of the license.

Jim and Angela,
It was nice to see you's again .Hope you get your pan up and running before the season.

Rhino,
Anybody that sell's to a WI packer has to have a license or they will not buy.As far as out of state,that was never brought up.

Danny

[markcasper]

120 people and no one thought to ask that question? Miss Nutter should have covered the issue of "out of state" syrup and how that is going to be dealt with.
The fact of the matter.....no one with the state probably does know, as in October I asked this question to a large packer and their response was they received no answer from the state.

"More government is always a good thing!"

[Rhino]

Lets take the out of state question one step further and ask what about canadian syrup being trucked into Wis. without the proper Wis. Dept. of Ag. and Consumer protections stamp of approval? The packers might find it really hard to fill orders if their hands are tied that they can only buy Wis. licensed syrup. Would be a interesting question to ask the inspectors and packers how they are going to tackle this probem.?.?.?

[Jim Schumacher]

120 people and no one thought to ask that question?

It was tough to ask all of the questions. Some of the attendees were focused on attacking Erin as if she were some force against us, which absorbed a lot of valuable time. Others just sat on one question and beat it to death. She covered a lot of the most popular questions and left the door open, made her business cards available to every one, and encouraged them to call with specific questions.

Danny, it was nice to see you again. The evaporator is under construction and should be ready for our mid-March season. If not, I'll extend your season with some sap from the tip of the state.

[dschultz]

Jim
You'll have that evaporater finished by sap season, there's plenty of time.Then when you have enough sap and the pan is just a boiling away you'll be happier than a pig in $%#&

[Maple Hugger]

Lets take the out of state question one step further and ask what about canadian syrup being trucked into Wis. without the proper Wis. Dept. of Ag. and Consumer protections stamp of approval? The packers might find it really hard to fill orders if their hands are tied that they can only buy Wis. licensed syrup. Would be a interesting question to ask the inspectors and packers how they are going to tackle this probem.?.?.?

Hi. I got clarification from Erin Nutter, who gave the presentation at the Winter Institute last weekend. This is what she said:

Your Michigan license is good in Wisconsin - our rules just say syrup must come from an approved source not that it has to come from a WI licensed source. This would hold true for Canadian syrup as well.

[Rhino]

Thanks for the answer to that one maplehugger, If you ever talk to Errin again, could you ask her about this interesting question i heard..... One producer claims that they won't need a license to sell bulk syrup because they will cook their syrup to just under 66 brix, and by law,that is just concentrated sap,and you don't need a license to sell sap or anything under 66 brix. I know it would be up to the packers to buy lets say 65and3/4 brix, but that might be good enough to blend with a bit heavier syrup they buy from a licensed producer. I will ask my inspector about this when i see her in March if you or anyone else dosn't get a answer to this one. Always seems theres a loop hole to everything.

[southfork]

Packers I have spoken with will not buy syrup or near syrup unless it is from an inspected and licensed facility. Time will tell I guess.

The inspection process is simple and my USDA inspector was very helpful. Quite frankly I think the maple industry should look down on those who fail to comply. Noncomplience just casts a shadow over the rest of the maple industry. People attempting to short change the system will cause the USDA to be a heavy hand on all of us. Right now they are understanding, helpful and consumers will be happy that there are some quality guidelines in place, lets not abuse it.

Race in Rhinelander
750 buckets

[Jim Schumacher]

One producer claims that they won't need a license to sell bulk syrup because they will cook their syrup to just under 66 brix, and by law,that is just concentrated sap,and you don't need a license to sell sap or anything under 66 brix.

Rhino, That exact question came up at the meeting. One guy thought it would be a great idea until one of the guys up front stood up and made it very clear that not one packer would touch the stuff. I guess he could sell it to a licenced producer if he/she felt like running it through their evaporator. It seem like it would just be easier to sell sap... or become approved.

[Rhino]

Race, totally agree with you, read your post from before and i also have Ami Johnson as my inspector. Nice to work with, looked once at our set up and all i have to do is make an appointment when i am up and running in March.

[Rhino]

Just read your post Jim. thats good to hear they are standing tough.

[Rhino]

Maplehugger, Just got off the phone with a producer and i mentioned to him what Erin sayed about syrup sold in Wis. has to come from an approved source. He said that Wis. is one of the few states that have any kind of license or a dept. that can be accepted as a approved source. He mentioned Minn. dosn't have anything, you just go make and sell the stuff. Other states you just go and buy a permit like a hunting permit. I kind of doubted him on the phone but sure would like to hear more about how other states license, or inspects the syrup makers. There almost has to be some sort of dept. of ag. or something in other states right???? You would expect Vermont to really have tight regulations.

[lpakiz]

And another thought occured to me--how about the guys who have their sap boiled on a 50/50 arrangement? Several tappers in this area do just that. Can they sell their half of the syrup to a packager on the boiler guys license?
To whom is the check made out to??
If it must be made out to the boiler, does the boiler want to claim this as income? Bet not!
I was gonna EMail Erin to see what her take on this was, as well as maybe call Roth or Anderson.

[southfork]

Please remember that in the big picture, quality assurance is a positive thing for promoting Wisconsin maple products. Wisconsin should be promoting that their syrup facilities are subject to licensing and inspection by the USDA, that will be a selling point to the consumer. I am not speaking of labeling, just the concept in general.

From my experience the USDA has done an excellent job (so far) to be on the side of the producer and help us comply with these very simple requirements. Why fight it ? I think the Maple Producers should take a strong stance embracing the concept and use it to our marketing advantage.

Race Foster in Rhinelander
750 buckets and a USDA registered establishment

[Rhino]

Race, just for the record, I am not fighting the requirements to be licensed to sell. I am just bringing up questions that the packers and inspectors have to think about. Now that Wis. producers have to show proof of inspection before the packers will buy our syrup, i hope they inforce it across the board and fair. It would bother me to hear that they bought syrup from unlicensed producers or from other states that don't need any proof of inspection. Alot of us have to put in alot of time and $$$$ to bring our operations up to code. Fair and honest is all i ask for.

[southfork]

I agree with you Rhino. Good luck this season.