Michigan Maple Association Annual Meeting

[mapletbdf]

48th Annual Michigan Maple Syrup Producers Meeting
Saturday, January 16, 2010
Program Agenda

8:30 - 9:25 AM Registration – Coffee – Rolls
9:25 - 9:30 AM Welcome & Opening Remarks
Russell Kidd, Moderator – MSU
9:30 - 10:15 AM MMSA Business Meeting – NAMSC – IMSI Reports
Ron Thomas, MMSA President
Larry Haigh, NAMSC Delegate
Jean Mayday, IMSI Delegate

10:15 – 11:00 AM Marketing Maple Syrup through Social Media: Sue Stuever Battel, Sue Stuever Battel Public Relations and Beth Stuever, MSU ANR Communications

11:00 – 11:45 AM Determining Your Cost of Production for Maple Syrup: Bob Battel, MSU Extension

11:45 – NOON Results of MMSA Maple Syrup Contest & Door Prizes
Gerald Nelson, MMSA Board of Directors & Terry Coleman

NOON – 1:30 PM Buffet Luncheon

*********Main Educational Session ********

1:30 – 2:15 PM Break Out Sessions:
Tubing I –
Beginnings Session –
Conducting Sugar House Tours –
2:15 – 2:30 PM Break
2:30 – 3:15 PM Break Out Sessions:
Tubing II & Using an RO –
Alcona FFA –
Conducting Sugar House Tours –

3:15 – 3:30 PM Evaluations – Please take the time to fill this out

3:30 PM Program ends

[Haynes Forest Products]

What town is it in??? Heading to Mich. about that time going north of Grand Rapids

[KenWP]

Man they pack a lot into one day don't they.

[wkfg]

Doherty Hotel, Clare Michigan

[Tweegs]

My wife and I will be there, heading to Clare tomorrow night, the room is already booked.

The tubing seminars couldn't have better timing as I plan to start stringing mains on Monday, first time for me.

Hop eto see some of you there.

[firetech]

I'm coming up Sat am. See ya there Tweegs

[mapletbdf]

there will also be an informal hydrometer class Friday nite at 6:00 by the pool . try to make it, the weather look great, it makes for a good time

[shane hickey]

Hey, michiganders, The anual Michigan ***. meeting is less then 3 weeks away, (January 15) I really like that show very educational with lots of venders hope to see you there
shane

[Tweegs]

We will be there!

Looking forward to it.

[firetech]

The Mrs. and I'll be up Fri. pm. Looking forward to Ro 1o1 and runnnig the wood evap right

[shane hickey]

The Mrs. and I'll be up Fri. pm. Looking forward to Ro 1o1 and runnnig the wood evap rightWell tweegs and fireteck hope to run into you guys there. Going up there early saturday morning. shane

[kirkhedding]

The wife and I will be getting up there Saturday morning also. Hope to see everyone there.

[holey_bucket]

I am geeked. Heading up there Sat morning, as well.

[Tweegs]

Going up right after work tonight.

I already know Firetech, and I'll add "Tweegs" to my name tag.

See you folks there!

[shane hickey]

Going up right after work tonight.

I already know Firetech, and I'll add "Tweegs" to my name tag.See you folks there!Tweegs huh,well I'll put that on my name tag to so you'll know that I am one of the maple traders see you guys up there, I'm leaving tomarrow morning at 6:30am shane

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

we just got checked in,all settled in down by the pool having a cold beverage

[whalems]

Wish I could have made it this year. But my son has a basketball tournamet all day. maybe one of these years. have fun, Mike

[shane hickey]

Wish I could have made it this year. But my son has a basketball tournamet all day. maybe one of these years. have fun, Mike The show went very well came home with a couple of new toys. An automatic filler for the caner and low sensor warney for the evaporator and choclate maple candy as a door prize. I got to meet 3fires and tweegs there, which I hope you guys had a great time. It's nice to place a name with a face. shane

[holey_bucket]

The show went very well came home with a couple of new toys. An automatic filler for the caner and low sensor warney for the evaporator and choclate maple candy as a door prize. I got to meet 3fires and tweegs there, which I hope you guys had a great time. It's nice to place a name with a face. shane

Shane, I was looking all over for you. Never did see you, 3fires, or tweegs!
I did end up sitting with Mr. Ogden, though. I'm jealous about the chocolate maple candy...

[shane hickey]

Shane, I was looking all over for you. Never did see you, 3fires, or tweegs!
I did end up sitting with Mr. Ogden, though. I'm jealous about the chocolate maple candy...
Yeah I was talking with the vendors mostly and stayed for the the conversation on Ro I think that I finally got it figured out. Sorry I missed you hopefully I'll see you there next year, shane oh yeah the cholcalate syrup candy was good.

[firetech]

It was good to say hi to many of the maple family from the trader. Shane hope you can that Ro up and running before you really need it. Rich thanks for the good word for Mr Mason. Tweegs call me and pick up that 3pt carrier. Kirk thanks for the info on the web site start up. Sorry I missed 3fires and Holey Bucket. Oh almost forgot MAple Manic it was good to see ya. Strong and sweet sap flow for all this season. Herb

[holey_bucket]

It was good to say hi to many of the maple family from the trader. Shane hope you can that Ro up and running before you really need it. Rich thanks for the good word for Mr Mason. Tweegs call me and pick up that 3pt carrier. Kirk thanks for the info on the web site start up. Sorry I missed 3fires and Holey Bucket. Oh almost forgot MAple Manic it was good to see ya. Strong and sweet sap flow for all this season. Herb

Firetech, I didn't realize it at the time, but I think you were sitting right behind me in the #1 group, Forced air, with ReJean. Weren't you sitting against the back wall? Didn't even cross my mind, but thinking back, I know I saw "Firetech" under your name somewhere...

[michiganfarmer2]

missed it again

[Tweegs]

Good to see some familiar faces this year and some new ones, too.
Wish we’d have thought to bring the laptop so I could have checked in here to see if anyone else had chimed in. Sorry we missed Mark, Kirk and Ogdens (why does that name sound so familiar?).

Got some really good info this year, and not just from the seminar. Especially liked the break out on evaporator efficiency, though I could have done without the sales pitch, it’s had the wheels turning ever since. Already have my hands on a few thermocouples and a rough idea for a panel to monitor them.:D Summer project, time is too short for any experimenting this season.

Firetech…
Looks like we will be picking up the evaporator Saturday, so I’m going to have my hands full this weekend. I’ll have to play it by ear and see if I can get out there the following weekend, would like to get a look at that spiffy new sugarhouse of yourn, too. Always looking for good ideas.

Appreciate the loan on that carrier, it will make my life a whole bunch easier. Take a few measurements, tweak the design a bit, and weld one up for myself…yet another summer project. Man, I’m gonna be busy this summer. :lol:

[twofer]

...

Got some really good info this year, and not just from the seminar. Especially liked the break out on evaporator efficiency, though I could have done without the sales pitch, it’s had the wheels turning ever since. Already have my hands on a few thermocouples and a rough idea for a panel to monitor them.:D Summer project, time is too short for any experimenting this season.

...



Anyway those of us who missed it could get a rundown of the key points? Combustion efficiency is a topic that draws a lot of interest for me.

[Tweegs]

Anyway those of us who missed it could get a rundown of the key points? Combustion efficiency is a topic that draws a lot of interest for me.

Wow, normally type out in Word, then cut and paste, having tons of trouble doing that today...internal server error.

[Tweegs]

But here is the short of it:
The guy giving the lecture was an engineer for the LaPierre Force 5.
They use both air over and under the fire...40% under the fire, 60% over the fire, split 30% on each side of the firebox.
High pressure/Low volume air in the form of jets.

Smoke is unburned fuel, these jets of air are intended to create turbulence inside the fire firebox to help mix and burn
the smoke and other gasses released from the logs that normally go up the stack.

[Tweegs]

Ideally, you want the air to remain under your pans for 15 seconds.

Start a small fire, get it hot, then add to it to prevent creosote build up.

Do not fill the firebox with wood, the wood should be no less than 4 to 6 inches from the bottom of the pans. Filled too high, there is not enough room between the wood and the pan for proper combustion.

He was claiming firebox temperatures of 2400 degrees and a stack temp of just over 600 degrees.
Recharge time of the firebox was every 40 minutes.
He was also claiming 4,000 gallons of syrup from 10 cord of wood.

I'm sure there was a lot he wasn't telling us, proprietary information and all.
My goal is not to necessarily achieve those results, but rather to improve the efficiency by adding air, in the right amounts, in the right places.
Monitoring the firebox, flue pan, and stack temps should give an indication of how well things are going.

[Tweegs]

Sorry for the multi post, only way I could get it all in :D

[Ausable]

But here is the short of it:
The guy giving the lecture was an engineer for the LaPierre Force 5.
They use both air over and under the fire...40% under the fire, 60% over the fire, split 30% on each side of the firebox.
High pressure/Low volume air in the form of jets.

Smoke is unburned fuel, these jets of air are intended to create turbulence inside the fire firebox to help mix and burn
the smoke and other gasses released from the logs that normally go up the stack.

Makes sense - in my old electric generating plant - boiler operator days - we were going for the same goal. A clean stack with maximum generation of electric power. The darker the stack - the more fuel wasted - in this case low sulphur coal was the fuel. In each boiler furnace - The coal was first ground to a talcuum powder like fineness in Pulverizer Mills using forced draft air to aid in drying the coal and once ground to blow the powder like coal thru transport pipes to the burners that were located in all of the four corners of each boiler furnace - additional forced draft air was added at each burner and the burners were aimed offset to the center of the furnace so that a giant cyclone effect was made in each boiler furnace to insure that the coal was burned and not wasted. In these boilers we also used Induced draft fans to keep the boilers from going under pressure.......etc... What does this have to do with boiling sap ----- well the longer I read the various postings on this site the more I realize that Maple Syrup Makers are after the same thing as Power Plant Operators - the most bang for the buck - to get as much possible out of whatever fuel we are using --- Mike

[twofer]

Thanks for the rundown tweegs.

A few things I noticed are that he seemed to echo the same thoughts on stack temperature as Harry Atkinson from D&G and the key to the blower is low CFM and high pressure. This season I plan to shoot for 600° F in the stack unless I'm running behind on sap processing. Spend a little more time evaporating and a little less time cutting wood.

[3fires]

Shane, I was looking all over for you. Never did see you, 3fires, or tweegs!
I did end up sitting with Mr. Ogden, though. I'm jealous about the chocolate maple candy...


I wasn't there, too busy with school and such right now.

[holey_bucket]

But here is the short of it:
The guy giving the lecture was an engineer for the LaPierre Force 5.
They use both air over and under the fire...40% under the fire, 60% over the fire, split 30% on each side of the firebox.
High pressure/Low volume air in the form of jets.

Smoke is unburned fuel, these jets of air are intended to create turbulence inside the fire firebox to help mix and burn
the smoke and other gasses released from the logs that normally go up the stack.


Another detail to note, ReJean said the secondary combustion could not be achived until firebox temperatures reached 1100 degrees F or more. The primary fire, i.e. wood, is just to provide the fuel and get the box up to temp (1100 F). The REAL heat is generated by the secondary combustion, the gases and smoke, as Tweegs mentioned. The secondary combustion appears overtop of the wood, seemingly hovering - hence the need for the space between the wood and the pans. The hottest portion of the flame from the wood is where it is white and blue, then there needs to be many inches for the secondary fireball between the wood and pans. It surely was a sight to see.