When to tap

[michelle32]

Now that we have check valve taps. Do we tap two weeks early or do we tap the same time and get a better flow. Do to the holes staying open longer.We usually tap the last days of febuary. But now we have vac so we don't want to miss any early runs either. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and happy new year Keith & Michelle

[3% Solution]

Keith,
The sap will flow when it's ready to flow, it has nothing to do with your tap style.
There is really no set time, I usually watch the weather forecast closely when it starts getting towards the end of January.
I am looking for a 3 to 4 day period to be up in the 40's, just remember it's going to take a couple of days for the trees to thaw out too.
I have tapped as early as February 1st before and boiled.
That has happened just once since 2000
Hope this helps!

Dave

[DrTimPerkins]

Now that we have check valve taps. Do we tap two weeks early or do we tap the same time and get a better flow. Do to the holes staying open longer.We usually tap the last days of febuary.

Unfortunately we do not (yet) have any research specifically addressing this question. Theoretically you should be able to tap a bit earlier without any loss of sap at the end of the season.

We are doing a study this spring comparing the following treatments:
1. Normal spouts tapped mid-January without taphole sanitizer
2. Normal spouts tapped mid-January with taphole sanitizer
3. CV spouts tapped mid-January without taphole sanitizer
4. CV spouts tapped mid-January with taphole sanitizer
5. Normal spouts tapped late-Feb/early-Mar without taphole sanitizer
6. CV spouts tapped late-Feb/early-Mar without taphole sanitizer

All trees on vacuum, sap collected in chambers, measured after each flow period. Average of 10" dbh trees. Eight chambers per treatment.

For those statisticians among you, it is a 2x2(-1) Factorial design.

We expect to have results at various Open Houses in May 2010.

[KenWP]

Since here in the great white north they don't have any info like down south I never did find a source for those check valves. I don't do mail order and such as it involves credit cards but it would have been nice to have some info on such things. I did find CDLs web site and they were going to put me on their mailing list but D&G woudn't for some reason and Lapierre didn't bother answering my emails.
I tapped Mars 5 last year but never got sap until about the 11th so this year I will just listen to you guys that are close and tap the same time again and see what happens. Now that I know not to tap the north side of my trees like I did last year it helps.

[paul]

Tim

What do you use as a sanitizer?

[DrTimPerkins]

Tim ... What do you use as a sanitizer?

In our production bush, we do not use any taphole sanitizer, and do not recommend their use. We've tried several in various research projects, but none seem to have much of any effect, most likely due to the lack of residual action (they sanitize the taphole for a brief period, but then they wash away and microbes get in and do their thing).

We are testing ethanol in combination with Check-valve spouts under the hypothesis that if you initially sanitize the taphole, and the CV spout keeps innoculation from occurring (or at least slows it down a lot), the taphole might run even longer.

As I said....we'll know quite a bit more in May.

[maplwrks]

I would agree with most anyone on here as to the time to tap. There was a time that if you were to tap before Town Meeting day in Vt.( the 1st Tuesday of March)you were told that your holes would dry up. Now with the new spout adapters each year, you can tap anytime now if you wish...There are a few producers in the northern part of the state that will have made syrup by the middle of January. This is not the norm up here, but it happens every year. These producers have 60-70,000 taps and they need to start tapping this coming week to be finished by the end of February. I like to wait until we get a good crust on the snow,(one that will hold my fat a$$) then I tap, anytime after the 1st of February.

[jrthe3]

ok i am lost here have i been doing it all wrong i start taping when the waether looks good but the more i read it looks like most set a date and tap on that date regardless of the weather

[DrTimPerkins]

ok i am lost here have i been doing it all wrong i start taping when the waether looks good but the more i read it looks like most set a date and tap on that date regardless of the weather

It largely depends upon the size of your operation. Smaller producers and/or those on buckets/bags generally get ready to go by a certain time of year, but wait and tap when the weather forecast looks favorable. Very large operations (using tubing or vacuum operations) can't do that because it may take them 1-2 months to tap and do repairs in their woods. In that case they pick a date to start that will allow them to finish in time or just before the historical time the weather is favorable in their area.

[gator330]

To me it's all part of the game tape? don't tape? I only have 100 so I can tape in in short order. I like to do it when the weather is looking faverable for a few days good run to start off the season with a lot of sap in the tank. Hate to tape and look out the window at an empty tank the next morning. Last season I had two tapeings . The line started to shut down and there was a lot of good weather after that. I set 20 buckets in a hury and was able to keep going. They produced sap three and four times what I was getting from my tubeing. Going to try the same this year. I'm not so scared to tape and get some early run sap in fear of the line shutting down. I have a lot of maple that can be taped quick along a field for easy pick up. I may look into two or three main lines in the future to keep a good flow going. I can hear PATheron and the good Dr. screeming right now. TAPE THEM ALL GET IT, BOIL IT, SELL IT!!!!! I wish I could!!!!!

[Smith's Maple]

In my fifteen years of tapping. I have taped any wear from the last week in januray to the second or third week in Febuary. From year to year it has differed two or three weeks. I am in southern somerset county Pa. With only 700 on the pump it only takes me a day or so.

[Smith's Maple]

This quistion is for Dr Tim. With the new check valve Spout do we drill the tap hole at a slight angle as with the normal spout. Or should they be tapped different.

[DrTimPerkins]

This quistion is for Dr Tim. With the new check valve Spout do we drill the tap hole at a slight angle as with the normal spout. Or should they be tapped different.

Tap exactly like you would with a regular spout...with a slight downward angle from the inside to the outside of the tree.

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

Smith's- How many taps are Sanners going to have out this year? They aren't too far from you. Sounds like they are really expanding.

[jrthe3]

if the big operations take a month to tap how long will them first wholes stay good for if the sap aint running seams to me if it took a month to tap the first whole would be dried out befor the season was done

how long will the wholes stay good with out sap in them

[DrTimPerkins]

how long will the wholes stay good with out sap in them

Time is not as big a factor as is temperature. They'll stay open for quite a long time as long as it doesn't get hot enough for the microbes to start working too much.

[Smith's Maple]

Smith's- How many taps are Sanners going to have out this year? They aren't too far from you. Sounds like they are really expanding.

Before they add the new tank last year they roughly 8 to 10 thousand out. The new vacumm system they added last year has 6,800 new taps. They all so up dated some old tubing and add some new this year. They should be over 15,000 I would think. I have not helped as much this summer as I have in the past so I don't have all the info. They are my next door neighbor, and Andy is my age.

[Russell Lampron]

Kieth I have tapped as early as Presidents Day weekend but normally don't start until the last weekend in February. We usually get a cold spell the first week or two in March and everything is frozen solid. I have tapped as late as March 13th because of the cold. That season it looked like we were going to be all done at the end of March and we were. One other year we tapped the last weekend of February and had our last boil on the 21st of April.

If you want to catch the early runs tap now. I have seen years where some people tapped and got some goods runs in January and early February. The holes don't dry up much when the trees are frozen solid. With new CV adapters and fairly new tubing you should be able to make it through March without having to ream your holes. Those early runs will give you a chance to tune up your vacuum system.

[DrTimPerkins]

you should be able to make it through March without having to ream your holes. Those early runs will give you a chance to tune up your vacuum system.

All the research I've seen indicates that reaming of tapholes is not an effective strategy to increase yield (although I'm sure some will undoubtedly say they had luck with it....in that case reaming probably wasn't necessary). In some rare cases I suppose it could help. In most cases though it's one of those things where it looks good...you go and ream and sap starts running out again. If you stayed there for a several hours you'd see it stop again. Taking off 1/16" off each side (reaming 1/8" bigger taphole) only takes off the surface wood. The bacteria are still there and will quickly plug the hole again.

Russell does have a good point about starting early to work the kinks out of your vacuum system though. Tapping a bit early does gives you more time to find and fix those problems before the sap really hard.

[saphead]

Back in the "day",(70's), we always tapped presidents day week as we were all on vacation.That was back when you worked outdoors and didn't live for your "i-pod",text massaging, etc. It's great to see some younger sugarers on this site to carry on the tradition of locally produced and consumed food.This site is an amazing resource for veterans as well as new comers!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

All the research I've seen indicates that reaming of tapholes is not an effective strategy to increase yield (although I'm sure some will undoubtedly say they had luck with it....in that case reaming probably wasn't necessary). In some rare cases I suppose it could help. In most cases though it's one of those things where it looks good...you go and ream and sap starts running out again. If you stayed there for a several hours you'd see it stop again. Taking off 1/16" off each side (reaming 1/8" bigger taphole) only takes off the surface wood. The bacteria are still there and will quickly plug the hole again.

Russell does have a good point about starting early to work the kinks out of your vacuum system though. Tapping a bit early does gives you more time to find and fix those problems before the sap really hard.

I agree that Dr Perskins has hit the nail on the head. I have tried it 3 different times experimentally as I am always experimenting to find out if things really work and have not had any good luck. From my experience, he is totally correct in that when you hit the hole with a drill and the temps are right, the sap will start running again but in a few hours, they have just about plugged themselves back up. Only exception I have found to this is that if you ream holes that are still running a little, then they will continue to run a little just like they would have done before reaming.

I think the guys that are having luck with doing it are reaming trees that haven't completely quit running or going deeper into the tree to hit new wood.

[michelle32]

Thanks Russ I was hoping you where going to chime in. My thoughts where for taping valentines day. My wife loves maple so much I'm thinking a new dewalt drill for the day and let her have at it. Never had any intentions of reaming the holes out. The trees are stressed out enough. Thanks Keith

[Russell Lampron]

I have reamed tap holes twice in the 9 years that I have been sugaring. The first time got me an extra week and a half of sap while the second time it was just as Dr Perkins said. Good sap flow for a day and plugged up by the next day. When I reamed my holes I drilled the tap hole a 1/2" deeper to expose new wood using the same size bit. The first time the taps and tubing were new the second time it was 5 years old.