open or closed bottom arch

[ejmaple]

just wondering is it better for draft, for the bottom of the arch under the fire box to be open or closed to the outside. i dont have forced air yet.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Not quite sure what you are driving at??? Outside air? Or do you mean should the bottom of the arch be completely enclosed except for the draft door? My Grimm lightning sits on a concrete pad with nothing under it but the concrete. The pad is level and any opening under is completely blocked by a bit of ash. I have no forced draft either. I control my draft with the draft door alone and for all practical purposes, I might as well remove it as it is propped wide open all the time anyway.

[farmall h]

just wondering is it better for draft, for the bottom of the arch under the fire box to be open or closed to the outside. i dont have forced air yet.

Do you mean to close off your draft door once you install your blower? If that is the case all you have to do is put a brick against it to keep it closed. My lightning draft door flops back and forth when the fire is roaring and the blower is on.

[jlemieux]

Do you mean your arch sitting on a full concreter pad as opposed to having a pit under the firebox for draft wide open all the time? The pit under the firebox works great, my sugarhouse was not big enough to install one. I have seen a 6 by 16 the had one and will suck a paper cup off the floor.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Remember that you want that ASH door big enough to clean out the ASH pit. Plus not having one to close at night will allow the wind to make a real mess of things or critters getting in. If you ever wanted to see a real pissed off wife just turn on the whole house fan with the fire place doors open:o :mad: :emb:

[3rdgen.maple]

If I read it right he is asking if it is better to keep the ash door open when boiling or closed and that he does not have a blower. If I got that right crack that door wide open and let her breath.

[farmall h]

I still think he is asking whether or not to keep the draft door open once he installs his forced draft. That's the way I read into it.

[johnallin]

Sounds like what the instructions - if you can call them that - from Leader suggest. The call for a "U" shaped brick setup under the fire box with the openning at the front for ash cleanout.

Now the the sugar house is closed in; I too am beginning to set up my new Leader 2x6 and am pondering that set up also. Seems like it would be an easy way to clean out the ashes being level with the floor and gets the fire door up off the ground which is good for my back....

I think EJmaple is asking if any of you use that setup, I have the same questions.

[JohnsSugarShack]

Thought I'd reopen this thread. I'm in the process of installing my 2x6 and debating on whether to install a 4" base under the arch making the ash pit bigger and leaving the front open under the draft door, Leader shows this in their installation manual but doesn't really explain it that well. I thought that if I did I could use a piece of steel to cover the opening if nessesary in order to cut back on draft. Has any one installed an arch this way or would it be better to just brick the arch up and use the draft door to clean ashes out? As I plan to start bricking this Friday. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[vtsnowedin]

I'm in about the same place with a 3x8 lighting. The original 1965 instructions show an eight to twelve inch ash pit extending a foot or more out past the front and they say to close the opening when in operation with a sheet on sheet metal (Not provided). Curiously this arch was a wood saver blower on it that appears to be original equipment but the instructions make no mention of it's set up or operation. It may be a well executed upgrade. It does say to grout around the back and sides of the firebox bottom so you can control the draft with the door and your sheet metal pit cover. It also came with a very clear drawing of the brick work inside the arch but I think I'll skip the asbestos board they recommended in 65.:o
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/warrenl_bucket/grimmbrickwork.jpg

[PerryW]

When the evaporator is in operation, everything below the grates must be blocked off from the outside, otherwise, the draft door wouldn't have much effect. The evaporator could suck air from below the firebox.

I arrainged concrete blocks (that can be removed) to allow access to remove the ashes.

[johnallin]

Johnsugarshack,

I too just received a Leader 2x6 with Patriot pans and am trying to get a good read on wether to build it up with blocks, as the instructions say or just leave it on the cement floor.

From what I've read here the last year or so it seems that the combustion is better if the air is introduced at the top of the fire not the bottom. The ash door seems plenty big enough for draft and to get a shovel in there to clean out.
Any one have any suggestions? Thanks

[3rdgen.maple]

Just thinking here but do your arches have a frame at the bottom where the ash door closes? I would think that if it did why would they tell you to raise it up for more room for ashes if that hunk of metal is in the way. The only reason I have ever heard of for raising your evaporator is for the comfort of not having to bend over to load wood constantly. Easier on the back.... Is it possible the directions are primitive nad not updated. I thought all the leader arches were much taller than previous models. My evaporator is not a leader but sits right on the floor and the ash pit and door is more than enough to get a good draft and room for ashes and cleanout. Plus it is as tall as leaders new arches so if I added any height to it it would be too high to deal with the inside of the pans as they are like another 16 inches above that. Heck if you are thinking of adding 4 inches set a couple 4 inch somethings on the rails and set the pans on them and see if it is still workable. If it is raise it and save the your back, if not set it right up on the floor.

[vtsnowedin]

Just thinking here but do your arches have a frame at the bottom where the ash door closes? .

All the old style fronts I have seen have metal below the draft door. it makes the frame for the draft door to close against and adds quite a bit of strength to the whole front. If you cut it out the draft door would just be a hanging flap and if you had to jack up one side to level it the stress could crack the rest of the front casting. In use without a blower I've seen the ash pit left uncovered to let in as much air as the stack could draw and only blocking it with a sheet of tin or ashes when shutting down for the night.

[johnallin]

3RDGENMAPLE & VTSNOWEDIN,
Thanks for the replies. The Leader 2X6 does have a piece of angle iron across the bottom to hold the sides together. The front is a new style with a single door and has cast iron under it and does have a large ash/draft door, but they still talk about raising the arch with blocks in a "U" shaped configuration - closed in the back and open in the front - for some reason. Is it for more draft?

I don't mind raising it up in the air if it helps but would rather not go through the extra work and time if it ends up being closed up all the time. My experience on the half pint for two years was that the ash door was always about 2/3 open and the little bugger would roar. This new 2x6 evaporator has a 10" stack that, in my case, goes straight up for 20', that coupled with the size of the ash door tells me it should also roar.

Raising it to make loading easier on my back makes sense, but it's at a decent height now, so I will rule that out. I am ready to brick it up this weekend and need to figure out which way to go pretty soon. If you guys are using them as they come I will do the same. Thanks

[3rdgen.maple]

I get plenty enough draft on mine with the ash pan door open. It sits right on the floor. With your 2x6 I think you will be fine with setting it up the same way. If you took a tour of sugarhouses I expect you would see the majority of them setup right on the floor..

[JohnsSugarShack]

After reading the replies I've decided not to build the u shaped ash pit. I'm going to set 4" spacers under my pans and if the higth is good I'm going to put 4" cinder blocks under the arch, if not I'm going to sit the arch on my existing cement floor. In hopes to get the arch completed this weekend. Thanks for the replies.

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

Here is how I did my 2 X 4 arch last year. The ash box has a door bolted on the front for ash removal. Also, I used fire brick for grates with 3/4" holes in them for the blower draft. This is our test fire for setting the fire brick cement.

[PerryW]

I think what some of you are calling an ash pan door, is actually the intake damper. I built mine up and put two removable blocks which can slide out easily. You can get a big shovel in there and remove ashes in a hurry. It holds enough volume so I only have to remove ashes once or twice per season.

SEE PICTURE:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/perryW/SugaringArchFront.jpg

[3rdgen.maple]

It is both Perry. It regulates the amount of air you want to the fire and it is also the door you open to clean out the ashes. Mine sits right on the floor and I too only clean it out maybe 2 or 3 times a year. It depends on alot of things as to how full and how fast it gets there. How efficient it burns wood and how much wood you are burning.

[Ed K]

i have a waterloo 2x8 the first yr i set it on the floor and tried a furnace blower set in draft door.This worked fine, next yr i put it up on 8" cement blocks (back) this worked much better and w/o blower. Last yr i changed the blanket an brick in flue pan (raised flue) and didn't have the dam across the back to keep heat up in flues set up right,and it sucked 4 cords of wood up the chimney in 3 weeks of not many boiling day. This yr i'm filling in the back flue to within a 1" of the bottom of pan and putting a dam across the back about 5" from chimney. I thought about lava rock for fill but Proctor Maple Center advised against this.