Homemade Arch

[Z/MAN]

I'm planning to start building my new arch soon. I purchased a 2x3 pan from Patrick and plan on building an arch like Davy Jones. My first question pertains to size. I bought the 2x3 because of budget and time reasons right now. Like everyone else I plan to grow in the future and would like to build the arch with that in mind. My plan is use the 2x3 pan but build the arch 6 feet long. I plan on putting a 3 foot piece of plate steel behind the pan that I can cut 2 feet out of in the future to add a 2x2 pan to connect to the 2x3. Does this seem like a good idea or are there problems I will run into? Any ideas will be appreciated.
Paul

[Bucket Head]

No, it should'nt be a problem. Its good to think ahead.

I'm pretty certain that after this season I'm going to stretch my arch and add air-over-fire. I hope to get longer pans in the future. So I'm going to make the arch long enough to accept either an eight or ten foot set of pans. Steel plate will be in place of the "gap" with my current six foot pans.

Good luck with it.

Steve

[Pete S]

You could use that hot flaty spot to set some pans to pre-heat,...........as well make some coffee!

[KenWP]

That flat spot would make a eccellent preheater area since it's going to get bloody hot anyways why waste it. Might even be a good idea to insulate part of it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Once the heat is past the last pan its wasted so why not use it. I would put the plate in place and cut a hole or holes that will equal the flue pipe size. I would install the flue pipe as you would if you had the full set of pans on it. Install a flat plate over the open arch and consider the plate in the arch as a baffel to keep the heat in the arch but still allow the heat to be used as a preheater in the back. You dont need the baffel to be steal you could use fire brick or sections of scrap.

[DavyJones]

If your stack is going to come out the top like my plans then you might want to consider going maybe 6'6" or even 7' overall; The stack is going to take up a bit of space so if you go out the top you want to make sure you leave enough space once you go to the 3' and 2' pans connected that you can still fit a coffee pot or other pan on the back. If you go out the back with your stack you'll leave your self 12" it sounds like after all is said and done and that should be plenty for a coffee pot or other pan. I brew coffee and heat up span or whatever on mine. It's going to get real hot like everyone says.

Let me know if you need help or have any questions once your start. I have all the construction photos online too.

Good luck
David

[Z/MAN]

Never thought of a baffle after the pan, will think about it. My stack will come out the top. I figure the 12" left will be enough for a oval opening about the width of the arch. I have a lot of 10" stainless stack pipe that was given to me by a friend who got it from a demolition job. Will this pipe be too big for this size evaporator or can I use it? Needless to say I want to use it if possible! Not worrying too much about coffee as I don't drink it but I sure will heat other stuff up on it and yes I will use it as a preheater.

[3rdgen.maple]

Z/man 10 inch would be fine. I would not just attach the pipe right to the arch. You will want a stack base as wide as the arch to get the heat evenly distrubuted across the back pans when the time comes. The baffle is a great idea. My old arch had a metal baffle in it so when you were running out of sap and pulled pans as you worked the sap forward, you raised the baffle to keep the heat up at the front pans. Worked pretty good. The sheet metal that we had was 3/8 thick and did sag in the middle in a few seasons. My only other recomendation is to plan it out for a full 4 foot pan in the future expansion. That way you can get a 4 foot flue pan on that arch and get max gph out of the setup. Don't cut yourself short with a 3 footer in the back if you are like the rest of use you are gonna need that extra foot of flues.

[Z/MAN]

Well, I have been working on the arch and it is starting to look like a real arch. Thanks Davy Jones for the plans. Have all the angle iron welded together and the front cut out.(Took forever to cut out the main and ash cleanout openings with a sawsall in 1/4" plate) Today I cut out all the stainless pieces for the sides. Picked up all the stainless at the scrap yard for a good price. Plan on riveting the stainless on and sealing it with high temp silicone. Trying to make it as airtight as possible as I plan on adding forced air in the future. Any comments? Next will be making the doors and cutting the stack opening. My neighbor is a retired sheetmetal worker and is making me a basestack out off stainless. I guess I will owe him some syrup!:lol: I'm still looking locally for arch board but cannot find any. What kind of store might carry it and by what other name is it called? I know I was told a refractory place but what is a refractory place?? I added a link to photobucket with pics, I hope it works.
Paul

[Maplewalnut]

Paul,

That is looking real nice. Can't wait to see it finished. I couldn't find any archboard locally either. finally just ordered from Bascoms. Price was the best of the mail order places! Keep a running list of supplies you need, I take a long weekend to VT/NH every summer and stock up on supplies. Be happy to pick some up for you.

Mike

[Haynes Forest Products]

WATCH YOU DOIN SPRAYING SPARKS ALL OVER DAT DODGE:mad: Looks real nice now dont forget the upside down bolts on the legs for leveling.

[Z/MAN]

Maplewalnut, How is the leg coming? Season is just about here. You'll have to stop down when I get it done. Yes it looks like I will have to get the arch board at Bascom's.
Haynes, I do plan on bolts on the legs for levelers. The Dodge was further away than it looks.
The neighbor brought the finished base stack over today. It came out great. Owe him LOTS of syrup.
Paul

[BoarsNest]

Z/Man - here is a link to the local place I bought my refractory supplies. I bought a box of 2300 degree 1/2" blanket for $50. Its the end trims from the rolls they cut. They could probably UPS it to you pretty reasonably. I think the box had 8 or 10 pcs that were about 3ft x 4ft. Seemed like a good deal to me. There are a couple guys that work there that make maple syrup too.

http://www.indfirebrick.com/

[Z/MAN]

It took longer then I expected but I finished my evaporator today.:D It has a 2x3 pan by Patrick and the arch is built 2 feet longer to allow for expansion in the future. I will use that extra area right now for preheating sap and cooking while boiling. I should be able to do a test boil this weekend. I hope I can get 6 gph or more out of her. Hows she look???
Paul

[wnybassman]

Sweet!!

I'm jealous.

[vtsnowedin]

Great Job. Now about that Sugar Shack??:D

[Gary R]

That's very nice looking!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Very nice. Did you add the insulation and gasket to the front or did it come that way from Patrick??

[Maplewalnut]

Very nice, now throw a blower on that sucker and get the fire really cracking! I'll be up to see it in action.

[Keyes Hollow Gold]

Very nice, you got skills!!:)
I'm planning on basically the same evaporator once I can put a roof over its head, but it's concrete blocks and firebrick this year(an upgrade over kitchen stove from last year!!). I hope I can come close to yours.

[Z/MAN]

Brandon, I built the arch myself, the pan is the only thing I bought from Patrick. So Yes I did install the gasket and insulation myself.
Mike, I do intend to add a blower ( already have one and built the arch air tight ) but just not yet. I want to see what it does normally first and then I will experiment with a few different things to see how I can improve its GPH.
Paul

[Z/MAN]

I finally finished shoveling, blowing, and pushing snow around. I was able to finally get the evaporator in place and setup today. I test boiled it with water today and am very happy with the results. I only ran it full blast for about an hour and a half but learned real fast that it wants to be fired about every five minutes. Pan boils nice but I will add a few bricks in the ramp to try to get a better boil in the back of the pan. Stack temp running about 1,400 degrees so I guess I am getting a good enough draft! Will post some pics in the next few days.
Paul

[Grott]

At 1400 degrees would a damper in the flue or a smaller exit under the rear of the pan help to utilize the heat?

Garett:confused:

[wanting to get into it]

Zman, where are you in PA? Looks like I should have brought the snowmobiles to your neck of the woods this year instead of Marienville.:) Hardly any snow there:(

[Z/MAN]

At 1400 degrees would a damper in the flue or a smaller exit under the rear of the pan help to utilize the heat?

Garett:confused:

Today it got up to 1650 degrees. I am going to try to raise the ramp up with some firebrick tomorrow. It boils best above 1400 but I know that is waaay too high. The temperature gauge probe is bending way down in the stack because of the heat.:o
Paul

[Z/MAN]

Zman, where are you in PA? Looks like I should have brought the snowmobiles to your neck of the woods this year instead of Marienville.:) Hardly any snow there:(

I'm in the northeast part of the state near Scranton. We are still buried. For some reason my neighborhood seems to get more snow then any place around here. Wanted to tap more trees but too hard to run lines in this snow. Tried snowshoes but even with them I gave up.
Paul

[BarrelBoiler]

zman how are you letting air in to your fire? through the ash door?
how close to the bottom of the pan is the back part of your arch?

i'd do two expermints

1 choke the intake of air instead of the exhaust. less air less fire. don't know how you run the ash/damper door while or fireing once the fire gets going i'd control the air to control the burn. start trying to stiffle teh exhust and you wwill find where your stove isn't air tight with the smoke getting out where it can
2 squezze the area under the back of the pan, 6 inch stove pipe has around 28sqin of area and according to what i have learned on here if thr area under the pan is kept around that area or bigger its ok and will work(guys, if i got that wrong please correct)

you may need to put some sort of baffle/deflector near where your stack leaves to disrupt the direct route to the stack maybe just behind the back of the pan to hold the heat for a split second longer

"smoke shelf"? good luck

[Z/MAN]

zman how are you letting air in to your fire? through the ash door?
how close to the bottom of the pan is the back part of your arch?

i'd do two expermints

1 choke the intake of air instead of the exhaust. less air less fire. don't know how you run the ash/damper door while or fireing once the fire gets going i'd control the air to control the burn. start trying to stiffle teh exhust and you wwill find where your stove isn't air tight with the smoke getting out where it can
2 squezze the area under the back of the pan, 6 inch stove pipe has around 28sqin of area and according to what i have learned on here if thr area under the pan is kept around that area or bigger its ok and will work(guys, if i got that wrong please correct)

I

you may need to put some sort of baffle/deflector near where your stack leaves to disrupt the direct route to the stack maybe just behind the back of the pan to hold the heat for a split second longer

"smoke shelf"? good luck

have been running it with the ash door wide open. I also have a ten inch stack. How many square inches is that? ( I'm not good with math)
Paul

[Pete S]

10 inch stack cross sectional area.

Pi x radius squared.

(Pi is a multiplier that is utilized in working with areas of circles, wither it be circumference, or area. This number is 3.14 for our purpose here)

Anyway the equation would be 3.14 x 5 x 5 =78.5 inches

HTH


Pete

[BarrelBoiler]

Z
pi(3.14) r squared (no pie are round, old joke)
i looked at your photobucket and got a better idea about how you built the rig than i had off the pics with your posts NICEEE! JOB! nice area to warm things up on. Stock pots full of sap! with the full width stack all the stuff about the stack is mute
my thought now would be to consider everything behind the pan area "stack", at this point. with that in mind i'd set some bricks up under the back of the pan to make a "false" back wall to the rig to make it more llike a half pint. a couple of bricks in the middle would let the gases flow round the ends and some over the top. i would put these underneath just behind it to capture heat.
play with the air supply that will help control the heat

tweeking is so much fun:D good luck

[Z/MAN]

Thanks guys. Before I boil again I will try to place a few bricks after the pan. I thought about this but wasn't sure how many square inches I needed for that 10 inch stack. Hope to do a boil tomorrow but have Mom and Wife in the hospital right now. Hopefully both will be coming home tomorrow.
Paul

[Z/MAN]

I boiled today and am still having problems with trying to get the stack temp down. I have tried stacking bricks under the pan in different areas the last two boils with mixed results. By adding a layer of full bricks under the pan I was able to cut the wood consumption way down but the stack temp is still ridiculous. Today I hit almost 1,900 degrees!! After the bricks heat up it just hums along at 1,500 to 1,600 degrees. I now have a 3 1/2" gap between the top of the ramp and the pan. Should I add another layer of 1/2 or full brick to narrow the gap? I am thinking that the extra 2' area I have behind my pan is creating a huge draft when all that brick gets hot. If I close the ash door down at all I lose my good boil. It also only boils really well when it is above 1,400 degrees and fantastic above 1'600. On a positive note it is boiling 10+ gallons per hour, not bad for a 2X3 pan. My base stack is so discolored it looks like a piece of s--t. At night the whole base stack glows red! Would a damper in the stack help? Where would I get one for a ten inch pipe? I hope I get at least one more boil to try to figure this thing out before my stack melts! Ideas?
Paul

[gar]

Install a damper in your stack. You can get them at a heating/plumbing dealer. Not sure about 10'' though. I think your Stack is too big. Put the damper in and slowly close it until you have a good boil with less stack temp. I have a 2x8 drop flue and only a 6'' stack, works good for me. Any thing over 800 stack is usually wasted heat. Looking at your arch I would also close it up some right behind the pans to keep the heat in your arch more. Most important is that it is all a balance of all of those factors. How deep are you running your sap in your pans? You may want totry running a little less sap in your pans? Good luck.

[Pete S]

A 10" damper may be a hard animal to find. Try out a 8 x 10" reducrer on the stack top. That should drop it down enough.

Not that it's the same thing but my hom e made unit has a 6" cuz that's what I had, and I scaled the ash door draft to just a but bigger than the cross sectional area of the stack. Outside we're gettin' a chubby 7+GPH.

Good Luck!

I really love this "no rules" way of building these things.

Pete

[Z/MAN]

Install a damper in your stack. You can get them at a heating/plumbing dealer. Not sure about 10'' though. I think your Stack is too big. Put the damper in and slowly close it until you have a good boil with less stack temp. I have a 2x8 drop flue and only a 6'' stack, works good for me. Any thing over 800 stack is usually wasted heat. Looking at your arch I would also close it up some right behind the pans to keep the heat in your arch more. Most important is that it is all a balance of all of those factors. How deep are you running your sap in your pans? You may want totry running a little less sap in your pans? Good luck.
Running the sap at 1 1/2 inches. I don't want to go any lower then that, I get distracted easily.
Paul

[lpakiz]

A quick temporary damper can be made by placing a sheet of steel over the top of the stack. Cover 1/3 to start, then more until you get the results you want. If this helps, you can fab a damper out of a round (10"?) piece of heavy steel and a pivot shaft with handle, centered in the stack at a convenient height..

[Z/MAN]

A quick temporary damper can be made by placing a sheet of steel over the top of the stack. Cover 1/3 to start, then more until you get the results you want. If this helps, you can fab a damper out of a round (10"?) piece of heavy steel and a pivot shaft with handle, centered in the stack at a convenient height..


I can't reach the top of the stack. It is 12+ feet high and not at the edge of my roof. Can you buy a damper for a 10 inch stack?
Paul

[vtsnowedin]

I can't reach the top of the stack. It is 12+ feet high and not at the edge of my roof. Can you buy a damper for a 10 inch stack?Paul
Sure can. It is a pretty common size for wood furnaces.

[Dan Bolton]

I am also fabricating my own evaporator! I started on it today and so far so good! I got a used Grimm cast Iron frame and door that is 3 wide! I am going to build it as a 3x10! I am using 2x2 angle 3/16 thick! It is a really good thickness because it seem's to be really solid! I will try and get some pic's up I just have to figure out how on this site! It can't be hard i post them on other site's.

[vtsnowedin]

I am also fabricating my own evaporator! I started on it today and so far so good! I got a used Grimm cast Iron frame and door that is 3 wide! I am going to build it as a 3x10! I am using 2x2 angle 3/16 thick! It is a really good thickness because it seem's to be really solid! I will try and get some pic's up I just have to figure out how on this site! It can't be hard i post them on other site's.
Do you know what happened to the castings that go to the back end of that Grimm? There should be three of them. A back end, a clean out door and the base to the stack taper. If they moved up to an insulated front they are still in use but if they are just laying around in a scrap pile buy them if you can.
If you don't have a 3x10 to look at for a pattern I can give you most of the dimensions you need by taking them off my 3x8. The 3x10s have an extra set of legs in the middle but other then that it's pretty much a matter of adding two feet under the flue pan.

[Dan Bolton]

I don't! The guy I got it from had it as a spare for his originall set up which he sold! So all I got was the frame and door! I do have a 3x10 to look at! My neighbor's have one! Thank's for the advice though! That would be sweet to find a back half! I never even thought of that! I just figured I would build that part!

[vtsnowedin]

I don't! The guy I got it from had it as a spare for his originall set up which he sold! So all I got was the frame and door! I do have a 3x10 to look at! My neighbor's have one! Thank's for the advice though! That would be sweet to find a back half! I never even thought of that! I just figured I would build that part!

There is nothing there that can't be made from 1/4" plate and flat stock you just need a welder in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. What's the plan for the pans?

[Dan Bolton]

You are right on that! I pretty much have all of the frame work done and welded! For the front pan I was going to make that as well! I am going to have one of my co worker's who is a fabricater bend the metal and tig weld it together! The back pan we are going to order! That will be a drop flue! All said and done I think it will be sweet:) !

[Dan Bolton]

We are making excellant progress on the evaporator! We have all of the metal hung and just about all welded! The only thing left to do really is build the stack base! For our first build I think it turned out really nice!