Installing Saddles

[Dennis H.]

This may seem like a real simple thing but I want to be sure I am doing this part correct.

I am using saddles that I got from leader, I see on the inside is say CDL.

It has the swivel style barb fitting on the top.

I thought all along that you drill the hole in the main on the top and put the saddle over the hole, well Once I got the saddle I see what looks like a groove for the wire to fit in on the saddle which would put the barb fitting off to a 45 degree angle is this correct?

I posted a pic of the what I think the saddlw would look like once installed on the main.

Thanks for any help

[caseyssugarshack93]

dill a hole at the 2 oclock position and put the saddle in, these type are off to the side of the pipe, yes the wire goes in the groove

[KenWP]

Whats the wire for.

[Grade "A"]

Whats the wire for.

To hang the main line on.

[Brent]

file:///C:/Windows/TEMP/moz-screenshot.pngYou may want to look into the fittings that eliminate the strain on the saddle caused by tension from the 5/16 laterals.

See item 4710 on Leaders web site.

When you use these the hole gets drilled into the mainline on the side opposite the side the lateral comes from. You connect your latteral to this and put on as much tension as you want to keep it flat and level ( well really on slight down slope ) The hook on this fitting takes the tension. Then with about 12 - 18" of 5/16 you make a simple U shaped loop from this fitting into the saddle. I put them on my lines last year and I had zero leakage on the saddles.

One other thing. Get a huge Crescent style wrench and tighten the saddle with them on the main sides of the saddle. The little tab sticking out should be considered and aid to releasing the saddle.

[caseyssugarshack93]

there will be very little tention if any at all on the saddle if you use a Hook stright connector which hooks to the wire as brent said

[jason grossman]

yes drill the hole on an angle , then install the saddle always make sure and check the gasket for defects and proper seatting. click the strap together as tight as you can by hand, then put a wire tie ,around the saddle and the wire in the groove on both sides of the fitting. tighten both of them and you can get one or two more clicks on the strap. then put a wire tie around the strap. they can work loose over time. this is the way they were designed to be installed. i have done many installations and have had only one reported leak. these fittings are the best around and work very well. when they are installed right they will hold 26" plus no problem. always use the hook connector to relive tension on the saddle. if you use non maple line the wall thickness is less and you will have some problems tightening them enough!

[Dennis H.]

Wow thanks for all the fast responses.

Alright then I will drill a hole about at the 2 o'clock postion opposite for the the side the lat' comes in from, yeah I have used the hooked ends for the lat's. I will make sure that the wire that the main is hung from sets in the little groove and then will click the saddle shut as tight as I can get it then use a wire tie to add a little peace-o-mind that it will not loosen up and leak.

Easy enough. Thanks.

[vtsnowedin]

A nice timely thread that saved me from asking some of the same questions. One other question? I see hand drills in the catalogs for tapping into the main line. Do you guys have these or just drill the proper sized hole with a cordless drill being careful to not drill through both sides of the pipe?

[Dave Y]

I have the hand drill made for mainline. It is lighter and easier to control than a battery operated drill. I wouldn't put saddles on without it.

[Snow Hill Farm]

If you slide a piece of 5/16 tubing over the drill bit and leave only a short amount of the drill bit exposed you won't go through both sides of the main, of course the proper tool is always the best way to go. I'm just starting with my branch lines off the barb fittings on the saddle and want to know is there an easy way to connect the 5/16 to the barb? I haven't tried yet but it didn't look like the one handed tool would work well or will it?

[caseyssugarshack93]

I use a Drill with a peice of tubing seems to work okay for now, till i get a hand one,

[caseyssugarshack93]

for hooking tubing to the saddle use some warm water and push it on Since these type saddles are at a angle its hard to get a tool so i make up 12 inch peices of tubing and then dip them in warm water and push them on works great and fast then i bring them into the woods the hook them to the hook stright conecter then drill a hole and put the wire over the saddle in the groove then ur ready to tighten and twist tie

[maple flats]

I use a hand tool with a sharp point to rotate around and a sharp circular cutter. I works real well and makes a perfect, smooth hole.

[red maples]

speaking of saddles does anyone have a preference in saddles I have some that have a 90 degree and that were 3 pieces that I had to put together forget who makes them? and drill from the top and some like the ones mentioned here both seem to fit tight and are easy to work with.

[caseyssugarshack93]

im guessing lapierre red maples i have some with a 90 degree and you have the straps that fit 3/4 1 inch and 1 1/4 pipe and have like a zip strap

[sapman]

I've been using the "multi-fitting" (CDL, Leader), and like them. As suggested by Brad at Leader, I use a cordless drill.

Tim

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Hose clamp nice and tight on the drill bit will work good too. I am not a big fan of the connectors with hooks as I like nice and tight lines, so I try to bring my lines in next to a tree and use a "Y" fork to take all the tension off of the mainlines. More expensive, but worth the extra $$$ in my opinion.

[mapleack]

I've become a fan of the lappierre "slide tensioners" for tensioning laterals to the main at saddles. They seem to work well, with no extra fitting to cause a leak. You can tighten them if necessary and also loosen them easily.

[sapman]

I've heard about these slide fittings, but still don't understand them. Are there any pics or videos of these being installed?

Thanks,
Tim

[Dave Y]

Sapman
Pm me your address and I will send you one.

[caseyssugarshack93]

heres a video of the slider fitting sapman there suppto be really good 2 less fittings for leaks


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y3KPIvlyZc&feature=player_embedded

[Jim Schumacher]

Any thoughts on the new "Super Saddles"?

[Amber Gold]

If the super saddles are the one's w/ the two pull straps on them, I use them and like them a lot. They're good for 3/4", 1" and 1 1/4" pipe, they're easy to install, kind of a pain to take back apart but doable, and you can easily get a one-handed tool on the backside to put the tubing onto the fitting.

[caseyssugarshack93]

the new super saddles have a stiff head where the toubing hooks to the barbs and a you can either use twist ties to hold them or get the Rachet staps for them i think the ones your talking about Ag are just the lappiere ones not the super saddles

[adk1]

do the CDL fittings work ok on Black waterpipe?

[3rdgen.maple]

do the CDL fittings work ok on Black waterpipe?

Yes they work fine.

[Randy Brutkoski]

The 3/4 inch ones work good but the 1 inch cdl saddles leak. But all you need to do is wire tie it to the mainline. There is a notch on both sides of the saddle to do this. The notches were put there for a reason. I started using supersaddles this year and they do not leak. Way better than the cdl multi fitting. And that is a fact. Whoever says different has not used both of them.

[adk1]

who makes the super saddles

[adk1]

I think this has been asked before but, if I use a hook connector, does anyone add the hook connector, hook to mainline and then run the lateral out until you get to your end tree, wrap around etc..then go back and install your drops? Or do most start at the end tree and work back towards the mainline?

[michiganfarmer2]

I think this has been asked before but, if I use a hook connector, does anyone add the hook connector, hook to mainline and then run the lateral out until you get to your end tree, wrap around etc..then go back and install your drops? Or do most start at the end tree and work back towards the mainline?

THATS a good question. Ive never been able to figure out how to do it, and not put a lot of pull on the barbs of the spiles.

I tied electric fence wire to the maiin, pulled it tight to the end tree, then tied my branch line on that.

[Randy Brutkoski]

You can start at the end tree or at the mainline. I prefer starting at the end tree. Hang you lats. and then put in your drops in with the 2 handed tool. This will make your lateral line tight. Make sure that you cut out at least a 1 inch piece of your lateral line when putting your drops in so it will be nice and tight with no sags.

[danno]

When your line is tight, it's whole lot easier to hook the hook connector onto the mainline, than to put on an end tree connecter. Therefore, I always put the end tree on first, pull tight, cut lat a couple inches short of the mainline, put on hook connector, pull the mainline and lat together and hook the connector. Usually do all my lats, then go back and add all my drops.

[3rdgen.maple]

I think this has been asked before but, if I use a hook connector, does anyone add the hook connector, hook to mainline and then run the lateral out until you get to your end tree, wrap around etc..then go back and install your drops? Or do most start at the end tree and work back towards the mainline?

This is like the 3rd time you asked this same question. Are you losing your mind. lol Your over thinking the whole process ADK just get your crap and get out and put it up. You will figure it out fast which works best for you.

[maple flats]

I run in either direction but usually from the mainline out. This is because I hang the latteral tubing spooler on the mainline. At the next I just move the spooler as needed up the main. I pull the latteral to the end tree, connect to that tree and then go back to the main. Then I pull tight, cut the latteral, install a hook connector and attach to the main. The saddles and loop are done later, after the latterals are all up or that section is done.

[Meridian Maples]

I do the exactly the same as maple flats, those tubing spoolers are worth every penny!! One guy can run a lot of laterals in one day with one. If there is too much slack in the line we take it out when you put the drops in with a 2 handed tool.

[Monster Maples]

This is like the 3rd time you asked this same question. Are you losing your mind. lol Your over thinking the whole process ADK just get your crap and get out and put it up. You will figure it out fast which works best for you.

LOL, this is hilarious, and I was thinking the same thing. However, I do hook mine on the end tree first and then hook on the mainline last. I also do all of my lats and then go back and cut my drops in. I don't mind going back and doing it this way. It may take more time, but I really don't care. I am usually in the woods by myself doing it, so more time in the woods is never a bad thing to me. It is where I like to be.

[adk1]

3rdgen, I hear yeah, and I am going to do jsut that. get r done man

[3rdgen.maple]

You will see ADK when you start it is a very simple process just a little labor intensive. The hardest part is getting and maintaining the proper grade and getting the mainline up. After that its all down hill and simple. Having the proper tools is the big thing to make it go smoothly.

[adk1]

thanks 2rdgen. I was just out walking in my bush. Wondering if it is better to install another mainline, perpendicuar to me main mainline and have shorter lats off of it. this is my next delimma. more mainline or longer lats...that is the question. I am leaning on more mailine.. all on gravity..thoughts?

[Randy Brutkoski]

If you dont plan on going vacuum, then you should make your lats. longer to get natural vacuum. You will not need another mainline. With a gravity setup you should probably stick with about 20 taps per lateral. Sometimes even more. Your yeild will be better.

[stoweski]

Having the proper tools is the big thing to make it go smoothly.

And what would you say are the proper tools? Looking through the catalogs I see several tools and wonder which ones are necessary and which can be substituted with something from my workshop.

[Randy Brutkoski]

He means a 2 handed tubing tool. It is a must to put your drops in. It will be your most important sugaring tool. Do not buy the single, make sure you get the 2 handed.

[3rdgen.maple]

Randy has it right. If you plan on putting in a fair amount of taps the 2 hander is a must have. A good sharp tubing cutter is a huge bonus and fencing pliers or good pair of wire cutters and a means to carry it all. Also dont forget a nice bright out of the enviorment norm painting so when you set a tool down or drop it you can find it. I personally welded my own tubing tool and it fits my needs for the moment. A cordless drill with the proper sized bit with a stopper on it worked just fine for the saddles but I must say it is an added weight and awkward shaped peice of equipment to lug around. The thing that drove me nuts about the drill was putting in the saddles after I put the 6 star ladder in. The filings end up in the mainline and I had to pull the lower star apart and clean out the plastic filings on the first run cause it was clogging the lines up. I dont know if the tubing cutter cleans the filings out and not in the pipe or not. If you use any kind of a brad point bit I bet you will end up with round chunks of plastic in the mainline as well. So I recomend putting in any ladders after you flushed out the filings, that is unless anyone else has a better way of doing it.

[Typical8]

Randy has it right. So I recomend putting in any ladders after you flushed out the filings, that is unless anyone else has a better way of doing it.

Thanks 3rdgen. Never thought to check the stars. The fillings have to go somewhere usually find them laying in the bottom of the transfer pump.

[adk1]

I will bite the bullet and buy a 2 hand tubing tool. Iwill purchase the one from Leader since I will be gettign Gift Certificates from there. I choke to think I will be spending $300 on one though!

[Randy Brutkoski]

When I bought mine I took it off the shelf and put it back on the shelf at least a dozen times before I bought it. I hmmm'd and haad more about the adjustable mainline tool. That was even more expensive. Someone is making a boatload of $....

[stoweski]

Thanks for the info! Anyone care to chime in on the difference between the two handed and the two handed automatic tool? Guessing there must be an adjustment for line size and one is manual? That sound about right?

[adk1]

dont know. The one I am looking at is $295 on Leaders website. that is the one that I will get. trying to get another local producer to possibly split the cost since they are starting to incorporate tubing. dont know how that will work out though.

Secondly, in order to pick up 20 taps on my laterals, I will literally have to run 200' of lateral line most of the time! would that make a difference in the difference of running another mainline compared to running 200' of lateral line?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Thanks for the info! Anyone care to chime in on the difference between the two handed and the two handed automatic tool? Guessing there must be an adjustment for line size and one is manual? That sound about right?

That is right. I have the automatic on my one handed tool. Works great in warm weather but if it is cold it slips on the tubing. I don't think I would go for the extra expense again.

[Randy Brutkoski]

The same identical 2 handed tool is sold by lapierre for $30 less. Same tool....

[3rdgen.maple]

ADK1 Im thinking since you are only putting in less than 200 taps save yourself some cash and get the single handed tool. You can work through it without the double. It is a little harder but can be done. If you were planning on expanding every year then go with the 2 handed one. Thats just my opinion.

[adk1]

true and something that I will have to consider. If I can split the cost with the other guy, then I will probably go that route. this producer will definatly need the two handed one. Guess I will wait and see!

[MartinP]

If you think a 2 handed tool is to costly you can build one yourself for less than 40 bucks. Pic of home made tool.
3410

[adk1]

yeah that is cool. I am not a welder though.

[adk1]

A buddy of mine built me a two handed tubing tool! I am pumped!

[spud]

speaking of saddles does anyone have a preference in saddles I have some that have a 90 degree and that were 3 pieces that I had to put together forget who makes them? and drill from the top and some like the ones mentioned here both seem to fit tight and are easy to work with.

I to would like to hear from other people on what saddles work best in the woods. I have been told by some big time sugarmakers that the Super Saddles are best because they do not swivel and you can wire tie them also. Thanks

Spud

[adk1]

I am wondering if I installed the saddles too offset of the mainine? I would say mine are 1/4 of the way down the side and the loop comes more horizontal into the mainline than verticle..Anyone see a problem with this regarding sap flow through the loop and intothe line? I wont have a problem with too much sap in the line, its 3/4" line and I only have 110 taps on it. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Redmaple]

It happens to everyone once in a while. It should flow fine just keep an eye on any ice build-up.