Air Purge of Transfer Line

[OneLegJohn]

I have an 850 foot 1" sap transfer line. It has 35'of head on the first 100' and levels out. At the end of a run I will have about 140 gallons of sap in the transfer line. Can I use clean air pressure to purge the line up to the sugarhouse? I was thinking of isolating the transfer pump with a valve and adding an air chuck. Any thoughts?

[tom jr.]

thats how we winterize our waterline to the barn and it gets most of the
water out. if it works in thompson it should work in rockcreek:lol:

[OneLegJohn]

Hey neighbor! We're just on the other side of 534 off 166. Make sure you do the March Maple Madness tour. It would be a logical stop on the route.

[brookledge]

I'd say air should help however the area you have that flattens out the air will tend to flow over the sap and not move the sap that fast unless you have a lot of air supply. Are there any areas that can collect and freeze? That would be my biggest concern. Nothing worse then having a frozen line that long and not knowing where it is frozen
Can you raise it up even more in the first 100 feet so that the remaining 750 has a good slope to the other end. That way the 750' would drain all by it's self and you could get most of the first 100 feet to move with air since it is steep.
Keith

[jason grossman]

we use air to purge our 2000' foot transfer line. it starts at 40' high and ends at 12'. we also use sponge pigs they work well if you have full flow stainless fittings in your line. some areas still freeze where there are dips but not as bad.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I winterize sprinkler systems every year and yes it will work BUT brookledge has it right the air will take the path of least resistance so hit it hard and hit it often. If you get things moving with HIGH pressure and CFMs let it sit for a moment and then hit it again and again and again. What you want to get is a wave action going to pick up the straglers. You will never get it all. Now if the line is free from splices or fittings you can use a PIG to push it all out..................NO KENWP not a real pig:lol: stick a spounge in the line and let er rip

[Beweller]

140 gallons? Check that calculation again.

[KenWP]

Haynes I actually grew up in the oil feilds I have seen pigs big enough to be called horses for big oil lines. Before I read that I was already thinking of blowing a pig through the line to get most of the sap out.

[OneLegJohn]

The 1" transfer line is buried 12-24" underground to keep the snow off of the line. Hope it works. The pump is 3/4HP with 1" output wired 220VAC. She'll we working to pump it out of the ravine and the follow the rolling terrain. There are a couple of dips on the way to the sugarhouse.

My calculations were way off. (1"X3.14X850)/231=11.55 US Gallons. There are 231 cubic inches in a US Gallon.

[brookledge]

you may have another factor now to deal with and that is frost. If your line is flat for 750 ft and only 12"-24" in the ground and there is that much frost in the ground it will freeze as soon as it stops moving and will nt warm up
I hope it all works for you
Keith

[KenWP]

Caculations are even more off as its .5x.5 x 3.14 x 10200 divided by 231 equals 34.66 gallons. You have to convert the 850 ft to inchs before you multipy it.

[Russell Lampron]

You got it now Ken. I should have posted yesterday. I have a 1" transfer line that is close to 900 feet long and 40 gallons drains back when I am done pumping.

[OneLegJohn]

I forgot feet to inches conversion... That's why I post this stuff! Not to worried about frost line though... Sap won't be running for a long time if it get that cold around here. Besides, I'm 70 percent sure I will be able to blow it out each time.

[Beweller]

Ignore message. (I can't find a way to delete)

[OneLegJohn]

Russ- what type of pump do you use to push it? Electric? HP?

[Russell Lampron]

I have a Honda WX10 gas powered 1" pump. It is a little slow, takes about 15 minutes to pump 100 gallons up the hill but it is faster and easier than pumping it into a gathering tank, hauling it up the hill and going back for more 70 gallons at a time. I cant get to my collection point with a truck at that time of the year. I was hauling it with a 4 wheeler with two 35 gallon tanks on a trailer behind it. Now I start the pump and go check the sap ladder or find and repair vacuum leaks. If I have 400 gallons of sap in the tank I have an hour to get something else done while the sap is going up the hill.

[OneLegJohn]

Russ-I have the same pump. I use it for transfer out of 100 gallon bucket collection tank. I thought it would be great to use an electric pump on a float switch. I have a 3/4 HP electric pump wired 220. Do you happen to know how the electric centrifugal Goulds pumps compare with the Honda pump we have?

[Brent]

Russ it sounds like your layout is very similar to ours. We're going to have the releaser and totes about 850 from the sugar shack. We put two of the 35 gallon tanks in the gator (70 gallons per tript ). I've been thinking of running a line and pumping up. I'm guessing we've got a 40-50 rise, then about 100 feet from the sugar shack it comes down hill with about 20 - 25 feet of drop.

I think you'll have lots of problems with sap freezing underground, at least the first few feet where it goes into the ground and the last few where it comes out.

If I go ahead I'm going to pump more or less straight up into the trees to a the height needed to crest the hill, plus a bit. Once the pump has the sap at the top it will start to siphon a bit to help unload the pump. A "T" at the top with a check valve will let most drain to the sugar shack and a bit will come straight back down. But that project is way down the priority list.

[OneLegJohn]

The line is "indoors" at both ends. We have a pump house with releaser, tank, and transfer pump. The transfer line comes up through the floor of the pump house. It is insulated around the line and has a light bulb for heat. The other end comes up through a heated concrete floor of sugarhouse. Hoping that takes care of the entrance and exit of sap transfer line.