Testing trees with a Refractometer

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

I didn't get to check today.. very busy with the vacuum system and sap lines from pump house to the saphouse next to my sugarhouse... I wanted to check.. but......

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

less than a couple weeks possibly here, but I haven't seen the reds budding yet... I'll check tomorrow and check the sap, I have been getting 1.5-2% from them as a group, so I'm good with that, got a good load of sap today, will have around 360-370 to boil tomorrow :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[forester1]

Nelson paint company sells a type of tree paint made for marking which comes in a tube like toothpaste. It is kind of expensive but I don't know the price offhand. Just smear it on the tree and it lasts many years. I've seen forest plots marked with this and the paint lasted over 15 years.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[ontario guy]

i use pushpins like you would put on a bulletin board. They come in many colors and are easy to install. They will last forever also. Much cheaper and faster than some of the other options. Don't forget to write down your color code :lol:

Mark

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[forester1]

Kevin, there are a couple styles of paint can carriers. Look at Ben Meadows or Forestry Suppliers, both have web sites. There is a metal loop on a leather belt slide to hook the gun trigger or a fabric can carrier. The can carrier is cheaper and comes in a single style or 3-can. My 2004 forestry suppliers catalog has the single #35749 $6.95, 3-can #55560 $11.95. The belt holster is #29.95 #55003 and it will only work with certain paint guns.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[markcasper]

I've been watching this topic and now I must jump in.

I have did some testing, but really a hard time to do this in the spring. I have another situation. I have probably 3 acres of red maple adjacent to my tubing area. These trees have been tapped before using sap bags. I have not tapped here for the past 2 years as I find it more economical to spend my time on tubing maintenance and boiling sap which my neighbor delivers, which has double the sugar content.

Anyway, these reds were testing anywhere between 2-3 percent 2 years ago. The woods is larger as the rest is mainly sugar maple.

Question: There are oodles of young sugar maple coming up under these reds. Where there is no competition from the reds, there are some sugar maple up to 7 inches dbh. Where there is competion and shade, the sugars are all over between 1 and 3 inches.

With the planned thinning in a few years, what do I do? Cut the reds and lose these as "insurance" trees, or leave the best ones only, or do nothing?

[Parker]

I would thin the area favoring the rock maple,,you dont want full sunshine for the rockmaple anyways,,so ,,leave a well spaced stand of red maples with all the little rockies you can save,, keep favoring the rockies in your thinning and in time (a long time) you will have a mainly rock maple stand,,,I would also test the trees with a refractomator as I thinned,,saving the sweetest trees,,,,
I was very suprised at maplerama this summer to here several very large producers say that with the use of the R.O. machine it did not matter what you were tapping,,reds or rockies,,and time testing with a refractometer and thinning for sweetness was wasted,,better to thin for the best crowns,,as volume of sap is more important than sweetness,,when the sap comes out of the R.O. its all the same.....still doesent make sense to me but I dont tap 10,000-20,000 either....

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[MASSEY JACK]

HEY GUYS...I WAS WONDERING... WHY NOT TEST FOR SUGAR CONTENT IN THE FALL? SOMEWHERE ON THIS FORUM THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT FALL SUGARIN. SEEMS LIKE A GOOD TIME OF YEAR TO DO IT AS YOU HAVE MORE TIME AND THE MARKS YOU LEAVE ON THE TREES WON'T HAVE TO STAY LONG AS I LIKE TO DO MY WOODS WORK IN COLD WEATHER. ANY THOUGHTS???? JACK

[mountainvan]

tap them all. 2-3% is good sugar content for any maple. The sugars will grow more quickly without the reds but; single species woods are are more suseptable to insect/disease damage and it may be quite awhile before you can tap the sugars. I tap reds and sugars, do have an ro, but did it long before I bought it.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

You guys up north are so spoiled that it shocks me. My sugar content down here always runs about 1.7 to 1.8 percent always. I tap 95% + sugar maples and most are huge trees that have little or no competition and are spaced a ton apart and have huge crowns.

It just comes with being south, the farther south you go the lower the sugar content. I don't even worry about boiling 50 gallons to make a gallon of syrup. I am just thankful for the opportunity. If you need the sap, tap the trees and screw the refractometer. If you have tons more trees than you can boil, then it might be worthwhile to test them.

One thing to remember is a tree will have a different sugar content from year to year and even from day to day.

Less thinking and analyzing and just make syrup! :D

[mountainvan]

one old sugar maker I met years ago, he's since died in a combine accident, said"tap them all and let god sort it out." he was a very interesting character.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I don't own a single tree and I don't have an overabundance of trees to pick from. I have tapped all over the different bushes and in different years, made syrup from only one of the bushes and it is still the same. Everyone around here has always had the 50 to 1 ratio or very close to it. One producer who is about 1.5 hours away last year was at 45 to 1 and that is by far his best ever as he has always been at 50 to 1 in previous years.

Jeremy who is up in Maine gets 3.2% from red maples! 8O 8O 8O 8O

[markcasper]

I'd have to agree with Kevin. If the red maples were cut down I will lose short term sap production, but in the long run, you'd be further ahead.

Right now, I have a neighbor who was tapping on another neighbors property. He sayd that he is not going to do it anymore. I always bought the sap from him, while providing the bag holders and spiles.

The trees are 15 minutes from my place via tractor and gathering tank.

These trees are huge and have been subjected to pasturing for years. But
boy, they are SWEET! I didn't have a load from last year that was les than 4%.

In 04 I tapped there and never had a load under 3.5%. And that was at the tail end of the season.

Now in all sense, wouldn't I be better off to pay this landowner $1.00 per taphole and get sap that is much sweeter. The trees have proven to yield large quatities too.

In 04, I paid the landowner .80 per tap, but with Grade B going up in price, I would think this would be reasonable..

I have seen reports of .25 to.50 per tap. In all honesty, how much would it cost you if you owned the trees. In Wis. the real estate taxes are 2nd or 3rd highest in the nation, not to mention that land around me is bringing $3500-$5000 an acre.

If you made 1 quart per tap and sold it for $7.00 per quart (average of retail, wholesale and all grades) you'd still have $6.00 left after $1.00 per tap. And most years, there has been in upwards of a half gallon per tap from this woodlot.

Now the whole point of this is that I think the landowner deserves more $$$ in order to keep my foot in the door. If one figured taxes, interest and upkeep of the property, it would be much more than $1.00 per tap.

I believe at $ 1.00 per tap it would be better to tap here than tap my red maples. Any thoughts?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

I couldn't agree with you more. Chances are if the trees are that good and that sweet, you would be making more like 1/2 gallon per tap in a decent year and pushing 3 quarts to a gallon per tap in a good year.

Some of you think I am crazy, but that is around 20 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup and that is very possible with these kinds of trees in a very good year.

$ 7 per quart, are you giving it away?? It is going for around $11 to 13 most places it seems 8O

[Maple Flats]

He may be correct on the $7.00 per QT if averaging all sales including wholesale bulk along with retail. I get much more but I will not sell any wholesale nor do I pack many gal and limited 1/2 gal. Then if I average all sizes from Gal down thru 50ml I got 42.23/gal last year or $10.575 average/qt If I could not retail all of mine I would get a much lower price for bulk and grade B which would reduce the avg price a lot if the sales percentage of low price stuff was very high.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[markcasper]

I am glad to hear that most of you think this is a smart choice. I would say that since I or my neighbor have tapped at this pasture sight, we have averaged over 1/2 gallon per tap and in 02, 03, and 04 we averaged around 3/4 of a gallon finished syrup.

The reason I said 1 qt. was to be conservative and justify that even at $1.00 per tap, it would still be economical. I mean I really feel ashamed offering $1.00, but then who else is gonna do 500 bags that you have to hand gather.

I just want to keep my foot in the door for 07-08. I don't plan on tapping my own in that particular thinned woods b/c I won't have enough time to get the tubing back in the way I want it and do a good job.

When I bought from the neighbor, I used a simple payment method of moving the decimal point over. Example: If the sap was 3.7, then I paid 37cents per gallon. If it was 4.0, then 40 cents and so on. I also gave the landowner a gallon of syrup, no matter whether I tapped there, or my neighbor

When it was clear that the syrup had gone Grade B, then I told the neighbor it'd be half of what I got on the bulk market. But being on bags, there never was that much from the pasture trees.

Kevin--you are correct in the grazing damage that happens to such a woodlot. There are no young trees coming up, but it is not my property and I don't think the landlored is gonna keep his beef out in the summer time just b/c I want to tap the trees. So I deal with the present I guess.

[Parker]

I would say its all about what will give you the best return for the investment of time and $,,,Like Kevin said I would rather boil 3% sap than 1.5% and if you are not going to be able to set up the lines in your woods the way you want them you are WAY better off paying the long dollar and getting sweet sap,,,,,Has anyone priced tubing this year???Price at Goodrichs for 30-p went from $30 a roll to $50!!!!!! If you set up a system at those prices its going to take that much longer to cover the investment..........

[forester1]

I heard on the news the other day the price of plastic is skyrocketing just like steel a year or two ago. So it looks like the tubing price is affected already.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mountainvan]

Ijust finished tubing 400 new taps. about $2000 in materials, tubing, mainline, wire, spiles, tank, plus time hanging. That's $5 per tap + 10% syrup produced form trees, I barter for tapping. people here like getting syrup instead of money. couple years ago tubing was 2/3 what it is now, more reason to take care of it.

[Parker]

When I talked to them they said thet were not sure what the price of mainline was going to be,,,,,I had talked to them a month and a half ago and the 30-p was $37 a roll,,should have jumped on it then...Ill be shopping around,,,volital prices at the moment,,and I am sure this is the worst time to be buying,,most demand..I still have a bunch left over from last year,,,,might scale back my plans in Hill a little,,

[markcasper]

Tubing does come from petroleum and you know where that is now and what it was a year ago. I hate to see what containers are gonna cost. :oops:

[mapleman3]

I kn ow Sugarhill containers has an increase... it's all what they call Trickle down economics.... so in general Maple products will be going up in cost this year... You have to pass along the cost or you may as well give it all away....

gas to collect sap.... UP
Gas to cut wood ......UP
oil for fuel........UP
propane for finishing...UP
electricity for sugarhouse...UP
electricity for Vac System..UP
Plastic for Tubing....UP
Plastic for jugs....UP
Etc. etc. etc......UP

Spending time with your evaporator..... PRICELESS

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[brookledge]

Jim,
There is one thing that will go down this year.
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU PUT IN YOUR POCKET AFTER ALL THE INCREASES :( :(
Keith

[MASSEY JACK]

Thanks Kevin,

I figure it would be easier in the fall just because there is a lot of other things going on when the sap is running in the spring. Although,hunting is going on in the fall too. My problem when I hunt is that I spend too much time looking at the trees!!! It is easier if I don't hunt on my own land! :) :)

[forester1]

That's my problem hunting too Jack, I'm looking at the trees too much.

Most testing is for comparing between trees, and the relationship will stay the same. So the sweetest of any two trees tested in the fall will still be the sweetest in the spring.

[cncaboose]

I'm coming into this discussion late as a new mapletrader, but had a couple of things to add. I tested 700-800 young trees this March to help me make thinning choices on a lot full of young maples. I used a permanent marker that's designed for marking plastic cow eartags to write on the trees. It's cheap ($4-5), does several hundred with one marker, fits in my pocket, and the writing is designed to last through all kinds of weather and abuse on cows. The writing on the trees I did 2 months ago looks now just like the day I wrote it. You can get them from Nasco and other farm supply outfits.
I observed that most trees I tested that were close together (Within 10 feet) tested similarly. Is it genetics becasue they came from the same parent tree or is it the dirt they are on? In several cases though there would be one or two standout(s) that were 1+% higher than their immediate neighbors. Those will clearly be my keepers. Dominant trees in any given cluster generally tested higher, and I am sure glad of that. Also observed that crotched trees tended to test higher, maybe because of increased crown size. Crotched trees may tend to break down sooner, but it won't be in my lifetime. If I can cull crotched trees, fine, but if they are the best testing, they'll stay.
It was an education overall, finding that the trees ranged from less than 1% sugar all the way up to a few that were 8%. Average was over 3%, so I hope to develop a real good sugarbush.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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