RO chemicals

[sapman]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm wondering how harmful these chemicals are. I'm speaking mostly about the soap, SMBS (sodium metabisulfate), I believe. Would it me harmful to the "flora", fish, etc., of a stream? When it is flushed out, it obviously is going with hundreds of gallons of water for rinsing. It's just a LOT of water, and stuff, all at once to deal with.

I'm hoping that Dr. Perkins will notice this and chime in!

Thanks,
Tim

[KenWP]

SMBS turns into a gas and disapates. It's the same chemical you use to make wine. You put it in the wine must to disenfect it and 24 hours later you add the yeast to the must and away you go.

[DrTimPerkins]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm wondering how harmful these chemicals are. I'm speaking mostly about the soap, SMBS (sodium metabisulfate), I believe. Would it me harmful to the "flora", fish, etc., of a stream? When it is flushed out, it obviously is going with hundreds of gallons of water for rinsing. It's just a LOT of water, and stuff, all at once to deal with.


In concentrated form these are quite powerful. After use and dilution, they are far less so.

I really can't comment in depth due to the large number of types and concentrations of chemicals in use and the different laws and regulations in each area. It is incumbant upon each producer using these materials to understand how to use and dispose of them properly.

I'd suggest everyone read the publication at http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/PMRCChemicalSafety.pdf for more information.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[sapman]

Thanks for the link, Tim! Considering the potential procedures one "should" go through to dispose of chemicals properly, it would seem like very few would use ROs. Should producers have a massive drywell, some other containment system, etc.? I know I'm blowing this out of proportion, but to do things the "right" way certainly seems prohibitive.

Thanks,
Tim

[Brent]

You may have your chemical names and uses confused.
SMBS is a preservative/sterilizing agent. You would put a solution of that in your RO at the end of the season. I even pumped it into my pipelines for the summer.

The soap is a caustic (basic) chemical used to try to clean the membranes and is used during the season and then at the end of the season alternating soap and acid several times to clean the membranes .... then pack them with SMBS and a bit of glycol.

I tried to get answers from everyone around about how best to neutralize them and I think everyone consulted lawyers before responding. Like the post from Dr Perkins above. Nobody would commit to a "good practice" statement. (No offense intended Tim.)

So you would be back to high school chems to neutralize the soap and acids.

[DrTimPerkins]

I tried to get answers from everyone around about how best to neutralize them and I think everyone consulted lawyers before responding. Like the post from Dr Perkins above. Nobody would commit to a "good practice" statement. (No offense intended Tim.)

No offense taken. You are right that legal liability issues limit what most people can and will say. Realistically though, we don't know the laws and regulations in each state, or exactly what people are using to clean, what the starting concentration is, exactly how you're diluting it, and exactly what the materials you are cleaning with it. In some cases, cleaning with the wrong thing can be very damaging to equipment (RO membranes especially) and can actually be quite hazardous if you mix the wrong things together. So it is not in anyone's best interest for someone to try to advise you from afar. You basically have to read the labels and follow the instructions.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[Brent]

Yeah, my whole issue was that the manucturers of the soaps and acids have absolutely nothing on the MSDS sheet about disposal or neutralizing.

"do it according to local laws"
"if you get it on you flush and seek medical treatment"
is a rough paraphrase.

Some of them done even tell you on the label what's inside. That way the keep you going back to the maple dealer instead of looking for generics.

Not much help for the critters and bush downhill or downstream.

[sapman]

Brent, I realized you were right about the chemicals a couple days later. It sounds like you did a considerable amout of homework on this already, and your points are well taken. Thanks for chiming in!

Tim