Vacuum tube diameter

[Brent]

I have just taken delivery of a new mechanical releaser that I plan to put on top of the collection tank, which is about 800 feet ( uphill ) from the sugar shack where I plan to put the vac pump.

Since this line will be dry all the time, I am wondering how small I can go on the tubing diameter between the releaser and pump. If the releaser breaks the vacuum in the line to the pump, then it will recover vacuum faster if this long tube is smaller.

Also can anyone tell me if the new Bernard mechanical releasers seal off the vacuum line to the pump when it dumps. I know it seals off the incoming sap lines to hold vacuum there.

[Russell Lampron]

I ran my Bernard releaser with a 3/4" pipe for 4 years. It is 900' away from the vacuum pump and sugar house. I didn't have any problems with it. A larger pipe would act like a vacuum booster with more vacuum there for a faster recovery.

I increased it to 1.25" last season with thoughts of adding a second tank and releaser in the future. My 2 pipe sap ladder changed that thought at least for now. I didn't notice any difference in the way that the releaser worked with the larger pipe.

Vacuum to the main chamber is cut off so that the releaser can dump and the recovery time is very fast.

[Haynes Forest Products]

3/4 would be fine if your worried about it recovering between dumps make a Vacuum Resrvoir out of a 3-4" ABS or PVC . 8' section would be good enough to smooth out the surges.

[Brent]

thanks guys.

3/4" was going to be my default choice. Air / vacuum does not suffer nearly as much as hydrualics ( oil or water ) when tubing diameter is reduced.

If the valving on the releaser seals off both the sap line and the line between the releaser and the pump, then there is no issue with re-establishing the vacuum between the pump and the releaser. If atmosphere gets into that line then it will take some time to suck it out and therefore I was thinking to go for 1/2" which is a lot less sucking for nothing.

[Haynes Forest Products]

It would be differant if the pump cared.................maintaining vacuum in a 1/2 or 3/4 is not a issue so go with the 3/4 its stronger when it comes to pulling and branches falling on it. Removing atmosphere from a closed area is alot differant because of friction or lack of friction. Remember you cant store Vacuum you can only keep the other things out:lol: I still want someone to explain to me how a tank in the vacuum line boostes/increases vacuum???

[Brent]

Now you've asked the 64000 dollar question.

It is a misnomer. At best it is a vacuum accumulator. Maybe a vacuum cushion.

But booster, no way.

[maplecrest]

the one problem you will have is moisture in yoyr vac line being that small. you will need a moisture trap between the releaser and the vac line or drain the line at the releaser everyday. you will get moisture. you will really know it when there is no vac at the releaser. i have same set up 1600 feet of 1 inch dry line that was a problem till trap.

[802maple]

The thing that would bother me if it were my operation is getting sufficient vacuum to my woods. One leak and the bottom would drop right out, where if you were to have 1 1/2" it wouldn't be such a problem assuming the pump was big enough. You would still have to fix the leak. The vacuum loss is just like friction loss in water in a small pipe. Small line will work for you, but if I was spending my money I would do it with 1 1/2".

[Brent]

with the long hill up to the sugar shack, and only 3/4 Hp pump, I think the moisture would flow back down into anything I put at the bottom to catch it.

What I still don't know, and certainly will never understand from the gobbledegook in the operator's manual is if the line from the releaser to the vacuum pump stays under vacuum when it releases.

For a Canadian made product the manual is a shame.

How's this for slaughtering the language
"A realeaser is used to bring the sap keep under vacuum in lines back to atmospheric pressure. It should be related to the vacuum system and installed on a tank accumulate the sap. Moreover, the releaser's outlet through the vacuum pump should not be firmly fixed in order not to cripple the mechanical mecanism of the releaser"

Don't you think at the very least a dealer like Leader or anyone else would have re-written this to the language the rest of the North American community uses. How many years have these guys been making and selling this stuff ???

The good news is that everyone says they work like a charm.
They just can't tell you how.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I agree with 802. I have a dry line to a remote releaser about 1400 feet from the pump. The first year I had 1" line running to it. Consistently had 24" at the pump and 21" at the remote location. Over the summer I changed the one inch to 1 and 1/4 inch. Results with no other changes were a drop of only 1/2 inch at the releaser (24 at the pump, 23 and 1/2 at the releaser). Wish I'd used the bigger line first.

[KenWP]

How's this for slaughtering the language
"A realeaser is used to bring the sap keep under vacuum in lines back to atmospheric pressure. It should be related to the vacuum system and installed on a tank accumulate the sap. Moreover, the releaser's outlet through the vacuum pump should not be firmly fixed in order not to cripple the mechanical mecanism of the releaser

For someone who listens to French all day it's obvious it was translated from one language to another. I will never get used to speaking backwards and thinking in broken english and not being able to get my point across with out useing 4000 words to say yes or no and lord help me if I mean maybe.

[802maple]

That is how I learned also, We had a single 1 1/2" line go 5000 feet to the woods and had 24 inches at the pump and 19 inches at the woods, we added another 2 inch line and then there was 23 inches of vacuum there with an additional 1500 taps.



I agree with 802. I have a dry line to a remote releaser about 1400 feet from the pump. The first year I had 1" line running to it. Consistently had 24" at the pump and 21" at the remote location. Over the summer I changed the one inch to 1 and 1/4 inch. Results with no other changes were a drop of only 1/2 inch at the releaser (24 at the pump, 23 and 1/2 at the releaser). Wish I'd used the bigger line first.

[Haynes Forest Products]

OK Brent bit on the question............So how do you accumulate something that doesnt exist:o :lol: :evil:

[Mark]

If you don't want to loose the vacuum on the line to the releaser put a check valve near the releaser.

[Brent]

Mark If there is a check valve on the line from the releaser to the pump then it wont be able to suck air out of the releaser either. If it's going to happen, then the shuttle valve on top of the releaser is going to have to open and close to seal of the line to the pump, while it dumps, then re-open after the dump.

[batsofbedlam]

I have a 600' run between my vacuum pump and my releaser. 6 years ago, Glenn Goodrich told me that I wanted to go with as large a vacuum line as possible. You need the volume of vacuum to close the releaser after dumping. My vacuum at trees near my pump reads the same as the pump. That's 1200' of vacuum run. My main lines vary from 1" to 3/4"; but my vacuum line is 1 1/4".

[Mark]

Brent
It would be the same as the check valve on my sihi pump. If there was no check valve on my pump when I turned off the pump it would run backwards because of the vacuum in the tubing system.
I don't know how a mechanical releaser valving works. I have an electric one because I liked how it did not let air into the system.

[Brent]

Thanks mark but there is not way a check valve can go on the line near the releaser. The pump would suck it closed and it would stay closed after the dump had finished.

I have not got the new one going yet so it is still a mystery.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I Have a check valve on my vacuum line between the pump and releaser to prevent crap from the pump OIL, DUST and whatever from being sucked into the releaser when the pump stops.

[Beans Maple]

Definitly go with the bigger line. I have 1.25" that runs 2000'. I wished I had gone bigger. Your pump will work easier to keep good vacuum at the releaser Be aware of the moisture build up in the "dry" line too. Keep it as tight as your wet sap lines and if no moisture trap then put a valve in at the lowest point closest to the releaser so you can drain it. Water in there is way bad for maintaining vacuum and can freeze and cause bigger problems in the mornings. The larger dia. dry line will also help reduce the effects of moisture.

[Beweller]

KenWP, I once heard Theodore Von Karman say "The two most prevalent languages in the world are broken English and broken French. And I am fluent in both!"