What do you consider "level?"

[heus]

Worked alittle bit this morning on leveling my new 2x6 arch. Front to back is dead on. Side to side, the bubble is within the marks, with one end of the bubble ever so-slightly under a mark but not past it. I can't seem to get it any closer than that. The arch is so rigid (that's good, right?) that when I adjust one corner, it brings both corners up. (It has leveling legs in the back) I was hoping that this would be good enough, and if needed I could adjust my pans with rail gasket material.

[danno]

Keep working on it. Half a bubble over a couple of feet is probably a 1/2" sap higher on one side than the other. When you're running only 1 1/2" or 2" of sap in your syrup pan, 1/2" either way is quite a bit.

Doesn't matter whether you level it with the arch or gasket, but get it level - and check it every once in awhile while your boiling. Measuring sap level on both sides is a good way. If you level with gasket, the gasket will compress possilbly throwing off level.

[3rdgen.maple]

Hues did you level it before you bricked the arch? It should flex just enough if you level it before bricking. If it doesn't you can loosen up the bolts holding the arch front on and retighten them when you hit level.

[PerryW]

Sounds like you are close enough for a 2x6 raised flue. Being only 2' wide, a little out-of-level would make as much difference as a wider evaporator. Also, raised flues are less finicky because they have separate floats for each pan.

[lpakiz]

Can you pour enough water in it to just fill each corner? (Or all the way to the top) Then it's easy to compare relative height.
I do that on my flat pan and get it very close that way.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dont reley on the pan gasket for leveling. After you pull them off for cleaning they will slip and slide and you will get frustrated. Its like leveling a building you do it at the bottom plate not at the trusse plate. Plus after a few good firings things will settle and you can relevel.

[red maples]

I leveled mine before and after bricking did on bare rail. don't need rail gasket on mine just a little piece on the front rail thats it and I have it splitting the uprights almost perfect front to back and side to side after bricking the back went down about 1/8 inch for what ever reason. I will check ti again right before I boil and do like haynes said after a few good burns see how it is. (Ah yes wood floor:( someday I will pour concrete in there!!)

[3rdgen.maple]

Just like Red said on his Patrick told me there is no need for a gasket on the rails. There should however be one behind the flue pan one between the flue and syrup pan and one in front of the syrup pan. It stops the flames from getting up between them.

[Haynes Forest Products]

3rdGen keeping the cool air from seeping in around the pans is not a good idea? I also use pan gasket to keep the pans from moving from the vibration. I do have screw hold downs to keep the pans tight with gasket material in between them.

[3rdgen.maple]

Haynes the gasket material provided with my evaporator are only about an inch wide with a flat peice of metal that slides inside of the material. It sits right on the rails between the pans. The purpose is to take up any space to not let flames shoot up between the pans and yes to get atight fit on the arch. Once these gaskets are installed you cannot shift the pans at all and they are maybe 3/8 thick.It is a bit of a pain to put the last one in. It would allow air between the pans just not the bottomi nch of them.

[PerryW]

I like the pan gasket material for two reasons:

1) It seals up the small gap between the rail and the pans.

2) It protects the stainless from scratches from contact with the non-stainless rails.

Back on topic...

You should raise one end of the level until the bubble is centered and measure up to see how far out-of-level the pan is over it's 24" width. Be sure to check the level both ways to make sure your level is okay. If you are only 1/4" or less you should be okay. Just run it a little deeper if need be.

[heus]

Keep working on it. Half a bubble over a couple of feet is probably a 1/2" sap higher on one side than the other. When you're running only 1 1/2" or 2" of sap in your syrup pan, 1/2" either way is quite a bit.

Doesn't matter whether you level it with the arch or gasket, but get it level - and check it every once in awhile while your boiling. Measuring sap level on both sides is a good way. If you level with gasket, the gasket will compress possilbly throwing off level.

Danno,
Its not half of a bubble. Its off maybe the thickness of the line itself I just wondered if that wouls be considered "level."

[heus]

Hues did you level it before you bricked the arch? It should flex just enough if you level it before bricking. If it doesn't you can loosen up the bolts holding the arch front on and retighten them when you hit level.

3rdgen,
I have not bricked it yet.

[Dave Y]

Heus,
Put you brick in it and quit messing around! the thickness of the line won't cause you to burn your pan. A blind man on a flying horse won't be able to tell the differance!

[mapleack]

I agree with DaveY, get the brick in her before its time to boil! The thickness of the line on the level won't matter and a young man with 20/20 on a slow horse won't be able to tell !

[heus]

Heus,
Put you brick in it and quit messing around! the thickness of the line won't cause you to burn your pan. A blind man on a flying horse won't be able to tell the differance!
"I agree with DaveY, get the brick in her before its time to boil! The thickness of the line on the level won't matter and a young man with 20/20 on a slow horse won't be able to tell ! "

Just the quotes I was looking for! Thanks

[HHM-07]

Our rig on the farm had a stone arch and was not perfectly level IT WAS BUILT IN 1841 WE HAD A BOX OF COPPER SHIMS THAT WERE USED TO LEVEL THE PANS EACH SPRING, WE WOULD RUN NOT MUCH OVER A HALF INCH IN THE FRONT PAN AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. SOMETHING LIKE THAT MIGHT WORK FOR YOU


dick

[danno]

I agree with the others - brick the puppy. 1/16" out of level wont bother you. I thought the bubble was on the outside line - and that would be pretty far out of level.

[Brent]

Heus

the levelling of the arch is only a means to get the fluid depths even in the pans. I would not beat myself up to much with arch levelling until I tried filling the pans. While I trust that Patricks rigs are pretty square, I'd fill it and check ... before bricking.

I used gaskets all around mine. Never though of trying it without. He never told me either. Don't you think it would be easier if he wrote all this down and gave it to a new customer.

3rdgen Do you know where to get that gasket that you can slip metal into ?? The gasket I have always seems to end up down in the fire when I try to take off the pans, and it gets brittle and easily damaged .

[KenWP]

Why can you not use stove gasket glue to hold it in place. Just a thought. I need some of that gasket also. Have to see who has it around here.

[heus]

Brent,
The gasket with the metal strip you are referring to came with the evaporator from Patrick. Locks the pans right in place.

[3rdgen.maple]

Hues sorry I did not get it the first time if you are out just a line the heck with it brick that baby. I thought you were out more than that. Once you get the brick in it recheck the level and tweek it if needed.
Brent I got mine with the arch just like Hues. I would give him a shout as I have looked other places for it for my old arch and never found it. You better get ahold of him soon if you want it for this coming season.

[Haynes Forest Products]

KenWP Gluing the gasket material to the side of the pans would be Blastfamy. I to get tired of the gasket material falling into the arch when I pull the pans off so Im going to bend up some metal rails like I have seen on other rigs. Im going to take some 3" x 40" Galvanized sheet metal and 1/2" in on both sides Ill do a slight bend and then in the middle Ill bend it over almost 180 degrees and then lay a 2" x 40" fire blanket inside and flatten the metal so the 1/2" crimps hold the blanket. I wont beat the heck out of it because I want the blanket to stay fluffed out. I can then set them on the rails so the gasket is down and wont burn up the sheet metal.........I hope

[KenWP]

I ment to glue the gasket to the rails not the pan. Hard to glue gasket to SS me thinks.

[heus]

Brent and 3rdgen,
Did you ever think about getting another syrup pan for your rigs? I emailed Patrick and he said $650 plus $60 shipping. How often do you have to shut down to clean yours?

[Brent]

Sure did Heus, sent the original to Patrick so he could get the fit exactly the same and got 2 back, only a few weeks ago. (PS I made a double sized good wooden crate for them)

I'm insulating, vapor barrier, lino-floor and paneling the sugar shack, so its all out in the snow, but it looks great.

I got it just so I could clean one while boiling on the other. At first I wanted to get a new reversing rig, and Patrick has a great design for it, but he told me that on small rigs like our 2 x 6, reversing would not be a big help.

While trying to clean the soot off my pans this year I tried everything in sight and blasted for about 12 hours with a pretty decent pressure washer. Finally I got out my Lee Valley flame thrower weed killer. A gentle pass over the areas with hardened on creosote and I could hear the tinking or plinking sort of noise as the creosote on the outside and the nitre on the inside fractured off. I was thrilled. This season I am going to take the syrup pan off, rinse very well with fresh water, then while its still moist, and hopefully without any surgar, I'm going to run the flame thrower over the bottom when the pan is very cold. I think the nitre will flake off. I have seen it do this when I had a short boil one day and left the pan on overnight. The next day when I lit the fire, lots and lots of nitre came off in the syrup.

The next trick I am goint to try is to avoid soot and creosote build up. Before I put any wood or paper in the firebox, I'm going to flood the pans and pre-heat them with the flame thrower in the firebox. The threory ( maple theory # 127,342 ) is that a cold pan will cause the soot and creosote to condense, and that is when your fire is in its worst burning state. Once I get the pans up pretty warm, I'm going to start to add wood. I'm guessing that after a half hour I'll know whether that theory is one of the few keepers. ( I only get creosote on the cold rain cap on the woodstove that heats the house, so I think this re-enforces the theory)

[3rdgen.maple]

Brent that is way too much work for me to even consider. White vinegar and water let it sit and whammo clean shiny pans. Rinse fill back up with concentrate and boil like mad.
Hues I put alot of consideration of another pan so While one was sitting in a vinegar solution I could boil on the other. I am planning on trading it in next year if all goes as planned so I opted out of spending the money. All I do is at the end of the day I drain the syrup pan and fill it with the vinegar solution next morning it is clean and I rinse fill it back up with the concentrate and I am off. Doing it this way I only lose about 10 minutes in the morning. The flue pan stays really niter free so It only gets a good cleaning when the holding tank runs out or I got alot of floating crud in it.

[Brent]

I've tried various dairy acids (aka milkstone remover), vinegar ( a mild acid ), goop from Leader and other sources, steel wool, plastic and God forbid steel scrapers ( that one's a no no, permanent mess on the bottom of the pan). I think I've tried every remedy that has been suggested by this knowledgeable and creative bunch. Then came to the conclusion that my dirt was bad and the trees eat the bad stuff the make the worst nitre going, and then they all laugh at me and do it all to get even for drilling holes in them.

The milkstone remover was the best but not good and especially not good enough when the storage was getting full and the fire was out while I was trying to clean in the cold in the dark in the wind and in an increasing state of frustration.

So this winter, the flame thrower. It actully makes a beautiful blue flame like a giant plumbers torch, about 4" in diameter and 6" out off the nozzle.

[Brent]

I can add that letting sap ferment in the pans a few weeks at the end of the season does a pretty good job on sides of the flue pan but not the nitre at the very bottom.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I burn oil and every year I start out with EZoff oven cleaner and then pressure wash with a cheap $60 elec wash and they come out great. I would just start your fires with non evergreen type woods and then let her rip once your up to temp. Has anyone tried the logs that are for cleaning the creosote out? Maybe throw in a few.

[Brent]

I've never burned evergreens. For what it's worth there was a test done several years ago, by Consumer's Reports I think, that said the creosote burning logs removed nothing but money from your pocket.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Pine, hemlock, doug fir..................I always thougt a good chimny fire took care of the problem. Plus they sound so cool when its happening talk about establishing a good draft

[Brent]

Well I have to fess up to that one too. I got a real hot one going and eventually burned the creosote off the top of the woodstove stack.

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

I'll go back to the pole and poke method next time.

[red maples]

yeah those creasote logs don't work. I never burn pine in the wood stove. and I clean it twice a year. no problems. but when your burning pine in the evap your burning it so hot it really doesn't get too much build up.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

They make the little Quick Shot(at least I think that is the name of them) soot removers that you throw into the fire and I know they work great on chimneys as I know people who used them and have went to cleaning 5 gallon of gunk out of the chimney to 1/2 gallon.

[KenWP]

I burn cedar pine and spruce in the wood stove in the house and so far not to much soot. I try to get a good fire at least once a day in it and I also clean it once in the middle of the winter for safety sake. I get maybe 2 cups of soot and most of that is near the top. I haven't tried Red Devil yet to see if it works. They make Red Devil for oil furnaces also. You add it to your oil in the tank.