Wisconsin bulk prices

[Mark]

Does anyone know who and what they are paying for bulk syrup.

[syrupkid]

about 2.60 a pound for any grade a syrup 2.45 a pound grade b not many guys buying bulk syrup though after this season

[Mark]

At Bascoms they said they just got three semi loads from the UP and the dealers in Wisconsin are shipping to them also.

[dschultz]

Roth is paying 2.60 for grade and 2.25 for com.

[Mark]

Bascoms is at L 2.80 M2.70 D 2.60 B 2.50 Comm 2.25

[markcasper]

I learned today that none of the major packers in Wisconsin are buying any syrup, at any price. I also learned that, yes indeed there was syrup getting trucked from Wisconsin, eastward this past fall/winter. Bascoms is not buying any more either, everyone is sitting on a pile of syrup.

With all of the expansion going on and everyone and their brother tapping.
Can anyone say $1-$1.50 per lb. in the near future??

[Haynes Forest Products]

With the new rules having to do with license to sell to wholesalers will the small hobby guys be flooding the market?

[ryan marquette]

Here's a thought for everyone. Wouldn't you think the packers would want all of our extra syrup in their hands. Because if its in my hands & I can't sell it I 'm going to look for new markets to sell it to. Local stores would be a good place to start. I see a lot of product in stores with packers name on them. So I guess we would be competing directly with the packers. I have a lot less overhead I think I could win on pricing. Selling bulk is a nice thing to be able to do but what are we supposed to do if we can't sell our syrup? Tap fewer trees, I don't think so.

[maplwrks]

Heres their thoughts--the season is almost here, and they have enough stock to get them through until the season. Once the season starts and packers get an idea as what the season totals will be like, they adjust their prices paid to the producers. This can go up or down depending on the year. This probably the worst time of the year to try to bulk syrup, except in years where supply was short.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Well now lets see 2 years ago I got a form from the dept of AG and I shoved it in a drawer and forgot about it. I got a reminder to fill out my servey and I drug my feet Then called and asked what it was all about. She said that because I applied for and was granted a license to produce maple syrup I need to fill out the form. I said it AINT LIKE IM A FARMER and she said..........well yes you are:o so fill out the paper work.

So now why do I think I dont have to be subject to the same UPs and DOWNs of any other commodity that is sold on the open market. Just like fuel oil last year over produced and under used so the price was down and we all loved it. Sooner or later it will be our time in the barrel:o

[markcasper]

With the new rules having to do with license to sell to wholesalers will the small hobby guys be flooding the market?

Hobby guys flood the market?? This needs further explaining!!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Reread my QUESTION it wasnt a statement it was a question. So Im hoping another trader will answer it. I have a fellow producer that built a 300 cow barn and 16 stall parlor because the 1.2 million buldg he had planned was down to $720,000.00 due to the economy so is he flooding the market doing himself harm?

[Rhino]

Haynes, Not sure i understand your question about the small producers flooding the market, but I heard a couple small producers say they will only make enough syrup what their family uses in a year, and a little to sell, and either pull the taps or i also heard one guy will then sell the sap which is a better idea then pulling taps. With the license law you will have alot of small producers who maybe took a few milk cans of bulk syrup to sell each year, now not going thru the hassle and expense of getting inspected/licensed. All of them put together will add up big. Got my Roth catalog yesterday, prices for equipment/supplies arn't getting cheaper, even in the bad economy. I am not worried about any flood of syrup. If i misunderstood you......sorry....rhino

[Haynes Forest Products]

I was reacting to the statement that everyone and their brother tapping could lead to prices going low to $1.00-1.50

Like it or not we are all being effected by supply and demand. I would NEVER advocate people stop tapping more trees or stay out of the wholesale or retail market. It is what it is. I walk the woods looking for trees that I can reach and wondering if I would be able to handle it. Thats why I wouldnt want to be in Canada and have quotas. I say full steam ahead.

[KenWP]

Just Quebec has quota on syrup. You can produce all you want but to sell it bulk to the federation you need to have a quota. I have no idea what they are doing this year except for the bulk price which is $2:71 a pound. Then they have a new price coming for next year. But to joind the federation is not for the faint of heart. Takes mucho paper work and inspections and of course my favorite applying for a quota.

[The Birdman]

[QUOTE=Haynes Forest Products;92684]I was reacting to the statement that everyone and their brother tapping could lead to prices going low to $1.00-1.50
If this were to happen the number of taps going in would drop fast. If it happened I would add more taps make more syrup and store it. because the price would get back up.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think the buyers have enough syrup to get them thru the next couple of months and they know that a banner crop would likely make the prices drop a little and are not taking a chance buying syrup at the same cost or higher cost than they can sell it for. They want to make profit and are doing the smart thing in my opinion.

I don't understand all the panic.

[The Birdman]

no panic I don't sale bulk at this time.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Hopefully Im not being miss understood. Im not in a panic Im not the one sounding the alarm about over production. I will travel to Wisc. every year and do my hobby and will try and make as much as possible and if I can sell it wholesale at a good price I will. If things start to dip below the break even point then I will bring it back to Colorado and retail it at the markets here. I sell all my extra syrup wholesale on my way out of town because its the quick and easy. Most people that I used to sell to want to buy in smaller amounts 25-50 gallons at a time. I like getting it all gone and check in my pocket the day after I close up shop.

Now Chuck Schummer is the one to worry about he wants all of New York to tap every tree making NY the second biggest producer behind Canada.

[Rhino]

In my opinion like everyone in the business knows, The weather will determine the amount and really the price of bulk syrup. We were ALL spoiled last season. Who knows....maybe the next 3 seasons will be real stinkers? Maybe not for every state or Canada, but it could. Heard a little while ago Wis. might get a major ice storm. quarter to a half inch of iceing. Next to a tornado, that is my greatest fear for my sugar bush. Hopefully by sunday we are not looking at a bunch of busted up trees and pipeline laying on the ground.

[maplecrest]

back in the 1980,s bulk prices hit 3.75 a # everyone added taps flooded market then the price hit 90 cents a #. and it took a long time to get back up there again. this boom in taps thru out the whole maple country. is going to out produce the demand. if not this year but in the next few. may not see 1.50 bulk prices this year but what will next year be? 20% carry over of last years crop if not more.canada,s fed has a small surplus and wants to grow that nest egg. 5 years ago they sat on so much syrup that it kept bulk prices low.when depleted the price went to 4 dollars a #. wait till that surplus is recovered. haynes will be right

[markcasper]

I had a reliable source inform me that 5,000,000 additional taps are going in this spring. I do not know if that is just the U.S. or Canada as well.

Rhino you are correct in stating the weather. We could all have a year like 2005, that would eat up alot of inventory. One thing that will help the prices stay higher is the fact that the US $$$$ is worth alot less compared to the Canadian $$$. Unfortunately that is also why the equipment you mentioned keeps going higher.

As far as smaller producers, I have heard many that will be incorporating theirs in with producers who are licensed. Whether right or wrong, this will happen, so maybe the smaller producers will flood the market.

[Rhino]

Mark, I heard that also about small producers selling off of one license, I myself would not do that just for the fact of liability and also the chance of a fraud charge. Not worth the risk. The one main licensed seller who takes that risk will also have tax work to figure out because that whole check will be written out to him. Easier getting a license and I can sleep good at night. To clarify about the liability part of the risk... If one of those non-licensed producers have a oil residue or some other foreign substance in their syrup, and the packers buy it and distribute it, If someone gets sick, they can trace it back to what licensed barrel and who the producer was. scary stuff guys, be careful.

[markcasper]

Rhino,

Thats why I mentioned "right or wrong". It will certainly be interesting to see how all of this plays out. I have already been approached by a smaller producer asking me to take their sap after they have produced enough for their own market.

It certainly is something to be mindful of.

[parkerfamilymaple]

what we are forgetting is that the chances of making as much syrup as last year is not very good. the industry made 1.5 million pounds, and that will be gone by mid may. even with the expansion in the us the majority of syrup is made in canada where they have a quota system that is controlled by the federation. they will not let the market get flooded to the point of 1 dollar syrup. the federation sets the prices before you make any syrup(average of 2.70 this year) your cost of production as a large producer are close to 2.50. the only real wild card is the exchange since the prices are set in canadian funds. most of the buyers will give us first chance to sell before the buy canadian syrup.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

back in the 1980,s bulk prices hit 3.75 a # everyone added taps flooded market then the price hit 90 cents a #. and it took a long time to get back up there again. this boom in taps thru out the whole maple country. is going to out produce the demand. if not this year but in the next few. may not see 1.50 bulk prices this year but what will next year be? 20% carry over of last years crop if not more.canada,s fed has a small surplus and wants to grow that nest egg. 5 years ago they sat on so much syrup that it kept bulk prices low.when depleted the price went to 4 dollars a #. wait till that surplus is recovered. haynes will be right

All true points, but this is 2010 and a lot different than 1980's. Now, syrup is being marketed all over the world a ton more than in 1980's. People are more health conscience an want naturally produced products and organic products. The customer base world wide is increasing every year due to the global economic times now vs 1980's. If 5,000,000 taps are added every year for next 10 years, so will have to give as I don't think that much can be marketed. I think we could keep up higher wholesale prices if the marketing is stepped up to match to a 5,000,000 a tap year increase, but we all know that will not likely happen.

Another factor, we know every year can't be a banner year. Say we carry over another 20% this year and now there is a 40% carry over from another banner year. Next year is a terrible year and even with 40% carry over or 60% if we go to a 3rd good year, a bad year wipes it all out and we are back to $ 3.50 or higher a gallon again.

[markcasper]

The thing that really intrests me is these new checkvalve taps. Remember the graph on the back of the many publications last year. The line kept going up while the competiters petered out. How much is this revolutionary techonolgy going to add in production. And we cannot compare to other years as this technology was non-existent. The vacuum technology of today is extremely different than that of the 80's, which almost assures at least an average crop.

Brandon, I agree with you for the most part in regards to the world consumption. I have witnessed decreased sales and have heard the same thing from others in my area. Some is because of more people making it, but some is because people just cannot afford a luxury item. With the record # of unemployed, it does not bode well for more sales. When one combines increased production, it simply means that the price will have to come down.

[dschultz]

Mark
Taking someone else's sap after they have enough isn't a problem.Because them it becomes your syrup.
The problem is when the smaller producer cooks all the syrup they can,and them come's to you because they know you have a license and asks you to sell the 20 or so gallons they have extra for them.
I've already been asked if I would do that.I said no, but I told them I would buy their sap from them if they had extra.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

Good points and I agree with you. One thing that is helping the global market so much is the weak American dollar and with the spend, spend, spend of our current president and congress, it is going to stay weak for a long time and even though we might be getting good bulk prices here, worldwide they are getting bargain syrup due to our weak dollar.