WRU in process

[Sugarmaker]

Working on a Water Reduction Unit "WRU" for the old 3 x 10 ( 3 x 5 foot flue pan).

I got started on this and here are some shots. This is in the very early stages so any suggestions may be helpful. Currently I have the four sides roughed out with some stiffeners added to the top and bottom all around which will become condensate channels.
The stainless that I an using is from the liner on Dari- Kool bulk tank. Heavy and difficult to bend real crisp corners.
Lots of work to do on this to be ready for 2010!
Thanks to all traders that have got me this deep into this project!:)

The hood on top of the WRU is the current rear pan hood, which I plan to use on top of the WRU. I just set the front hood on the table in front of the WRU box to see what it might look like.
The WRU size is 21 inch high, 38 inches wide, and 59.5 long.
Might add another 30-40 GPH to the old girl!!

Did you know you can use duct tape as temporary clamps:)

Regards,
Chris

[WF MASON]

Chris I like the term WRU , I assume your shooting for a steamaway inside that shell or do you have another design or are looking for another design ? Or copper preheater to drop in there?
At $7K for a steamaway, you've already done $2k in making the shell.

[Dave Y]

Chris,
real nice job on the shell of your WRU! You know it whats inside that really counts! Good luck, I hope you get it all together for 2010!

[3% Solution]

Hey Chris,
Looking good!!!!! :cool:
Kinda looks like my EEU!!!!!
Your going to love it!!!!!
Have fun!!

ave

[Sugarmaker]

Guys you are right this is the easy part. The guts is where the action happens! This shell is just window dressing, but is a good start. Need WF to weld this together for me?
Dave 3%, you got me started, you will need to pull me through.

The inside will be a custom/ built heat exchange unit that currently is just coming out of my head and into the CAD system. Suggestions are welcome. I would like a very simple design with features that could develop from right here on the trader. Anyone is welcome to P.M. me. All advice accepted! Get you input in early. ALL suggestions evaluated no matter how unique or unconventional. Your ideas may be incorporated! Just think how often do you get to be part of a serious design team?

Regards,
Chris

[3% Solution]

Chris,
Do you have my prints?
Some of the items have to stay the same.
Give me a call so we can chat.

Dave

[Sugarmaker]

Dave,
Right now NO! I am sure there are here somewhere but I may never find them:) We will talk soon.

Regards,
Chris

[jrthe3]

looks good if you need anything my uncle got a well outfitted sheet metal shop open to me

[Gary R]

Wow! You must never sit still. With all the goodies you've added this year, I'll never catch up:) I'm sure you told Cheryl the cost of the tools are applied to making lawn orniments for her. Let me know if you need any special fittings. Look forward to seeing it in action.

I'm still thinking about the battery powered vacuum pumps for you;)

[Sugarmaker]

Gary,
How about solar powered? Hurry! Leader may be working on one of these.
Shhhhh!
I did make a stainless back splash for the kitchen sink using the brake. Does that count towards household jobs?:)
Heck I'm just lazing around on the couch watching sports most of the time. A lot of projects started not many done!

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Maple folks I need your opinions!

First: I have formed the two vees where the sap will set in the WRU from 18 guage stainless. Yes its a little heavy but the price was right. I can get 18 guage stainless tubing for the steam pipes thru the sap at a very reasonable cost per foot compared to copper. I know copper is a much better heat conductor but I am strongly considering going with the 2 inch stainless steam pipes. I will try to post a picture. Comments are welcome.

Second: Also I will be able to have about 20 gallons of sap heating in the WRU at any one time does this sound about right for a 3 x 10? Sap will be about 6.5 to 7 inches deep. With out rebuilding the Vees this is what I will go with.

Third: Suggestion was made to me that a blower for a hot tub might work very well for the air supply for the bubbler in the WRU? I was sketching up a manifold system of 1/2 inch dia copper air pipes that would be feed through 1 inch copper. Rather that a air box in the end of the WRU. Again comments will be entertained.

Fourth and last: I would like to run the sap in one end of the Vee on the left side at the back, bring the sap to the front of that Vee transfer it through a tube to the front of the right Vee and then exit at the back of the right Vee.
Seems to me this would allow the sap to dwell longer and have a longer path to drive off more steam. The Vees would operate in Series rather than parallel. I know most of the ones that I have seen are not made this way. Can anyone describe the pros and cons of this approach?

Regards,
Chris

[WF MASON]

After reading your last post,I'm not really sure what were looking at, the thing that stands out for me would be the depth of the sap and the volume in there, my calculator is not at hand , so guessing 3' x 5' x 6" of sap(I'm guessing) there'd be fifty gallons there. It does take a little energy to heat that much sap. If your running steam pipes through there and then a bunch of pipes with air to agitate the sap(as another well known WRU does) I'd say your on the right track. Someone with a factory WRU could tell you what they run for depth, but I think the sap is run rather low in them,with the steampipes exposed so the air pressure can do its work. That said , once all that plumbing is dropped in there and takes up all that room , you might be back at 15-20 gallons of sap for volume.

[twobears1224]

here some links to help you figure volume

square tanks http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/recttank_calc.htm

round tanks http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyltank_calc.htm

delbert

[Jim Brown]

Chris; On Mine the sap is only covering the pipes when the air is on. If you just fill it the 2 inch pipes are only about half covered until I turn on the blower. Then they are covered with sap that is full of bubbles. My 2x4 (WRU)only holds about 5-7 gallon when operating. Cold sap(8%) on the inside and 185-190 degree sap(10 1/2%) feeding the rig. your going to love it!!

Jim

[Sugarmaker]

two bears and Jim B.
I have the volume calculation done for the volume in the Vee's and the 20 gal of sap is what will be in the WRU unit at any one time. Its basically a 10 inch square x 48 inchs long = 4800 cu. in. and a gallon is 231 cu. in.
I boil at about 80 GPH now with a preheater in the hood. I would like to get to 120 GPH if possible with the WRU? (reduce boiling time!)
Also hoping to take the % sugar from 2% to 3% or more using a WRU?? And preheating the sap to 200 F. too.
Thanks!
Chris C.

[Sugarmaker]

Come on guys!
1. stainless or copper steam tubes?
2. Spa tub air blower?
3. What size air holes in the air tubes?
4. Series or parallel flow sap path?


:)
Regards,
Chris C.

[3% Solution]

Sugarmaker,
Copper, must be what's needed, that's what a steam-away has. Thin copper too.
Spa blower with a control.
Holes need to be 1/8"
old sap comes in one end, hot goes out the other.

You know I would say that didn't you!!!!!!!

Dave

[syrupkid]

1. depends on how much cheaper the stainless is also with stainless once ie gets heated up it should transfer heat just as well i think

2. a hot tub air blower should work but remember yuo have to have a good air filter on it you dont want dirty air in the sap!!!!!!!!!!!

3. i would think .125" or less?????????

4. i would think series but maybe it doesnt matter??????????

[WF MASON]

I believe in the factory WRU the holes in the floor were the air exits are punched quite large , like 3/8"(i could be wrong)and thats why they use a blower with alot of cfm's going in , becouse on the other end , its really comming out to agitate , not just bubble.

[Gary R]

I reccomend go look at a factory one.

[NH Maplemaker]

If a hot tube blower will work in the amount of water they work in, It should more than provide enough CFM to agitate the small amount of sap that will be in the WRU. Also they must come in differant sizes for CFM. As far as air goes, It should be filtered know matter what type of blower you decide on. When you start looking at factory stuff the dollars start adding up fast! Most places that work on spa's have salvage blowers hanging around!! My repair man said he has a box of them Jim L.

[NH Maplemaker]

I think Gary ha a good point! If you know someone close to you that has a factory built WRU it would be worth the trip for a peak at it! JimL.

[twobears1224]

heres a good website on blowers.if you look thur it,ll explaine alot about blowers and how they work and build cfm,s and pressure

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

delbert

[twobears1224]

i did a web search and i fixed the below link i posted...theres alot of good info on blowers there.

delbert

[nymapleguy607]

I would go with copper steam pipes, if you could find the type they use in baseboard hot water heaters, the fins would help transfer heat that much better
The blower from a hot tub should work fine I would put something like a charcoal filter on the outlet side of the blower to filter the air you are injecting.

[Sugarmaker]

Thanks guys!
Gary R, I have went and looked at a factory unit several years ago. Lost the sketches and did not get all the details captured. But some of it stuck in the old head. Plus I am a stubborn German and usually do things the hard way twice:)

Some one asked about the copper vs stainless cost. The copper is $10.00 per foot and the stainless is $2.00 per foot. I need 50 feet + so $500 vs $100 for the stainless. I am strongly leaning towards the stainless pipe due to the low budget factor and I see other factory pre-heaters on the site made from stainless. I know that when my stainless pans get hot you do not want to put your hand on them:)

Jim L, I have to some more research on the spa blower. Interesting that the holes in the air pipes may be somewhere between .06 and .375. I have a design (on paper) where I can remove the bubbler system easily and make modifications to the orifices as required to get the desired effect.

Guys one of the things I am interested in doing is to make improvements on the existing designs that are out there if possible.

I really appreciate the comments! Keeps me going and thinking. Thanks for helping!

Dave 3% Yea I know! In one end out the other! Still thinking on this question. Still seems to me that the sap would, or could, get hotter by traveling 8 feet in a WRU vs 4 feet? This is the same concept as a flue pan with a sap tube that takes the cold incoming sap to the front of the pan and then the sap has to travel a longer distance to get around the flue pan to the front pan. King and Leader pans have this feature.

Regards,
Chris C.

[jrthe3]

chris i have some old milk line it is stainless have no idea what the thick ness is but you are welcome to it it is just sitting on back wall of sugar house

[Gary R]

Chris,

Get in touch with Jim Brown. I'm sure he'd let you get a look at it. While your there you can stop by and see my backyard rig.

[Father & Son]

Chris,
That might be a good side trip(s) on the 19th.

Jim

[syrupkid]

If the stainles is that much cheaper than thats what I'd go with. By the way how thick is the cheaper stainless?????

[Sugarmaker]

F&S,
Yea we could do the Brown/ Regalman run too! not sure of the proximity to Mr Yeany?

Syrupkid ,
The wall thickness is about .050 inch thick which would be approx. 18 gauge.
I may order this soon. just to keep moving!

Good point was made by fellow trader about blowing hot air into the sap rather than cold air. Therefore a air box may be needed in the design.

Chris C.

[KenWP]

What kind of copper pipe is worth $10 bucks a foot. I can buy 1 inch copper for less then $40 bucks for 12 foot lengths and you not going to use 1 inch for a bubbler or a preheater are you. Granted I am thinking I might go with 7/16 tubeing for my preheater so that more sap sits in the tube at one time and heats up. The amount that 7/16 holds over 3/8s is actually a lot.
Of course I probbably own the only 7/16 fittings in the whole of Quebec. Took months to find them.

[Jim Brown]

Sugarmaker; My heat tubes are about 2-2 1/2 inch copper and the bubbler tubes are 3/4 or 1 inch copper. If that helps

Jim

[Sugarmaker]

Jim Brown,
Yes thanks for the information on the tube sizes.
Are you going to be home Sat the 19 th? We may be near your area?
Gary R same goes for you?

Chris

[twobears1224]

why would you need air tubes around one inch?? i would think half inch or less would be big enough.the bigger the tube the more volume to fill.

delbert

[Sugarmaker]

Delbert,
I cant answer that specifically. My thought was to use 1/2 inch copper with maybe .06 dia holes to start? and two of them in each Vee about a inch or so off the bottom.

I may have to move my fab shop into the warmer garage. Its bitter out there tonight.

Chris

[3% Solution]

Chris,
Go with 1/2" copper, 1/8" holes every 6" along the bottom of the air pipes.
Stay with the 2" pipes on top, remember you need to let the steam out as well as the heat build-up.
Did you get snow??

Dave

[Gary R]

Dave's place is about 1 hour 15 minutes from my place. It is about the same travel time from my place to Chris'. You may want to PM Jim Brown. If he is able to be home, I will be able to be also. I plan on going to Dave's.

By the way, I went past Dave's place today, no stacks up yet. Hope things are going ok.

[Sugarmaker]

KenWP,
get a price on some 2 inch copper Thats ths size I am looking at for the steam tubes. I plan to go with stainless at this time unless some copper falls from the sky!

Gary, We will see you at Yeany's on Sat. We should be there around 10:00.

Dave 3% Yes that 1/2 inch copper for the air tubes sounds about like I have planed.
We had 18 inches of snow in front of the sugar house on Friday afternoon. Most of it is gone with rain most of today.

Chris C.

[syrupkid]

i'm still on the stainless side of the fence plus with stainless it will be easier to clean

[KenWP]

2 inch does explain a lot. The price goes up quick once you get over a inch. I would say that SS would get cheaper at those sizes. I bought SS tube becasue it was half the price also. 1 1/4 is what I ended up with. Just harder to work with but it should last a lifetime or till I get rich and buy another system.

[Sugarmaker]

Keith brought by some of the 2 inch sst from the local dealer .055 thick wall.
I just have to get the funding together for some of the purchased items, and find the time to get back on this project. Lots of ideas but getting closer to sugaring time!
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Some shots of the main sap pan for the WRU. This is just setting on end next to the evaporator, but may give you a idea of the scale. 38 inches wide x 48 inches long. Also a shot of the 2 inch O.D. tubing that I am considering using for the steam tubes.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Stopped by Jim Browns today and got to look at a real honest to goodness Steam Away. Got some suggestions and listened to Jim's thoughts on lots of bubbling from the air system.
Very Impressed with your family maple business.

And thanks again for the special Maple Christmas ornament. Cheryl liked it very much!

Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Unless I am wrong, all the new Steamaways are all stainless. I don't have a book in front of me to check to be sure.

[jrthe3]

looks good chris i got some ? does there need to be a drip pan under the sap v pan are you wielding it or taking to some one

[3% Solution]

Hi Chris,
Hey it's getting there and looking good!!!
I bet looking at a steam-away helped yopu out a bunch!!
Your going to love it when you get it running in 2010.
Keep on plugging and you'll have it.
If I don't chat with you before ................
Merry Christmas!

Dave

[Sugarmaker]

Yes it did help looking at Jim Browns steam away. One thing I did see was that the bubbling sap can slosh over from one Vee to the other Vee. And that his steam tubes were near the top of the Vee's.

Brandon,
I think you are right. I believe I saw some dealer pictures showing stainless steam tubes too.
Like Syrup kid mentioned sure would clean up nice compared to copper getting that patina. I am going to try to get the 10 stainless tubes, 2 inch O.D., 49 inches long, 18 gauge (.055 thk wall) on Monday so I can play over the holidays.

Looking for suggestions on cutting nice clean 2.04 dia holes for the tubes.

Boyd,
Yes I will need drip trays under the Vees running into the end channel and out a drain. I don't have these designed yet.
On the welding. I would like to try welding myself. I am considering doing some practicing with stainless rod and the Lincoln stick welder. ( I have 5 lb of stainless rod 3/32 E308-16) any comments on the feasibility of stick welding .055 inch (18 guage) please let me know! I really think the right way would be TIG. Do I ever do things the right way? NOT often:)

Dave 3%,
Merry Christmas (almost) Hadn't heard from you. though maybe you were mad at me for not getting the skype thing working:) Hood projects should go out this week so back on the WRU which has been nicknamed the "Walrus" since it will be big, bulky, heavy, gray, just lay there and not do much, and belch water once in a while:)

Regards,
Chris C.

[Gary R]

OK Chris, I know we got off track a little planning the meeting of the maple heads this weekend. It should be full STEAM ahead. Less than 2 months to go.

I was thinking about how you were talking about making the steam go through one half and then back the other half. Thus making the steam path twice as long. I think the key would be to have as much area in your tubes as the area in your stack. I would think if you choked it down by not having enough tube area, you would have a lot of condensate falling back into the flue pan. As for cutting the holes, just go buy a water jet:D . Or, you can use a 2" hole saw. You have to buy a good one like Lennox or Greenlee. They can handle cutting stainless. If you had too ream it, you could use a die grinder or round file.

Hope things go well and post the pic please.

[jrthe3]

chris my friend have a plasma cutter if you like to try that i may also know where there is a tig wielder for sale i could call him if you are interested

or what if you made a good jig could the holes be cut with a router with a good bit

[twobears1224]

if you go with a hole saw use one slightly smaller then your tube and grind to fit if need be..hole saws wobble and you could end up with a hole thats to big for your tube.

delbert

[Sugarmaker]

Folks good suggestions on the holes.
Had a minor set back today :( the 2 inch tubing is gone! so I am going to get 1- 3/4 O.D. in 18 gauge wall thickness. Should work as well and will end up with a little more cross sectional area than a factory built 3 x 5 unit. Still 5 tubes in each vee.

I did price some 2 inch through a local steel supplier. Glad I was setting down when I got that call. Yikes, It was very pricey!

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Things are moving at the normal pace, just a bit above turtle speed.
Stopped at work and went to a meeting and had breakfast. Must be something wrong with me going to work on a vacation day, thats just not right!
Then off to the scrap dealer and picked up 60 feet (3 -20 footers cut in half) of 1-3/4 O.D stainless tubing (304) for the steam tubes this morning.
At $1.50 per foot came to just under $100.00 so this fits into the WRU budget nicely:) I think I am at about $180 so far. (The price for 2 inch material from local steel dealer was $900.00. That would have hurt a little.)

Plus I will have the short drops for use on some other project.

Stopped by and talked to the local welding supply shop and got some tips on welding. They even have a trial shop in the back to allow you to test drive welding equipment.

Also had time to stop at the electrical supply shop and get pricing on getting my 225 amp Lincoln welder hooked up in the shop.

Not a lot of buying just a lot of shopping:) Hey its Christmas!

Did a little Christmas shopping and was home by noon.

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Cut the tubing to length , 49 inches, (10 pcs) these are ready to be welded in place when the time is right. Very cold in the shop today never got above 20 deg. F.
Off to search ( online) for a air bubbler system. Some thoughts are that a a hot tub blower may be the ticket?

Have a Merry Christmas.

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Over the holidays I did some serious design work to complete the details for the inside end panels and their features. I have cut these two from stainless and the front panel shape is 80% complete. The rear inside panel should be bent up tomorrow.
My neighbor ( Larry H.) stopped by and said I may be able to use his MIG with gas if I want to.

Folks, As I look over the remaining tasks to accomplish and the time remaining I strongly feel that the WRU will need to be completed during the 2010 year and be fit and ready for 2011 season. We have made good progress, but still a lot of moves to make. I think I am about 35-40% complete, mostly just getting the individual components ready to fit together.

I will let you know how this progresses. BTW thanks for all the support and suggestions.
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Some pictures of the WRU with some of the interior and exterior panels trial fitted in place.
First picture is from the right front with the front skin not in place the air box will go in this area.
Second picture is approx position of the steam tubes. (Cut off pieces)
Third pic is from the right back showing the condensate drain. ( the rear panel is not in place. Most parts look like they could work with some fine tuning.:)

I feel a year older today!

Our 11 year old golden retriever, Sandy, went to the big sugarbush in the sky overnight.:( She was a great silent helper outside the sugar house and spent many hours supervising us working and making syrup. She will be missed by the family.

Chris

[KenWP]

Whats with Golden retreivers. Mine died at eleven years also. I didn't notice she was sick because my wife had a stroke at the same time and the day I brought her home from the hospital the dog had to up and die on me. I still use the hammer she chewed the end of the handle off of as a pup.
That SS tubeing I found out the last couple of days welds up nice for me.Makes nice joints instead of solder on copper tubeing.

[Gary R]

Chris,

Sorry to hear about Sandy.

Your fabricating is looking nice. Are you sure you won't have it ready for this season?

[jrthe3]

chris i keep trying to get out to see ya but this snow is keeping bissy i will make it

[Sugarmaker]

Ken, Gary,
Thanks for the words about your dog.

Gary, I think I have too many moves to make to complete the WRU this year, but I keep poking along and doing research.

I did find the Greenlee style punches in the McMaster Carr catalog today and for about $65 I can get a 1.75 dia. punch set that will cut through 10 gauge stainless. I need to decide what other hole sizes I may need and get a few of these hole punches.

Boyd,
Yes this weather has kept me working just to keep the drive cleared. We have between 30 and 40 inches of snow.

Chris

[danno]

Chris and Ken - so sorry to hear about your Golden's. As a golden owner myself, I know very well how much a member of your family they become. Rest easy pups.

[KenWP]

I used a Greenlee punch recently and it's slick to use with a electric impact wrench. I rented mine for a whole 10 bucks a day for a set of 4 sizes. i was planning to keep them for a couple of days because i figured it would take a while. Took me longer to drill the pilot holes then to cut out the big holes.
I bought my SS tubeing at a place that sold new and used steel. Was cheaper then copper for peices 20 ft long. Was more work to use but its welded instead of soldered so should be reliable.

[Sugarmaker]

KenWP
Thanks for the suggestions I was going to buy the punchs never thought about renting them? Hummmm
I agree getting the stainless tubing from our local scrap yard saved me about $800.
What type of welding method did you use? MIG , TIG, Stick? What thickness of material?

BTW Always enjoy your posts. Seems to be a bit of humor in most all of them!:)

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Cut the doors (one on each side 10" x 14") in the side of the side panels about 9 inches from the front and added the stainless hinges and fit the doors. Need to add the inside door stiffeners, the outside handles, and the latches to complete that part.
I completed the noodling on how I am going to plumb the sap through the Vees to the rear pan float box, so that I can throw three valves and see if there is any difference heat and or sap concentration. This will allow parallel flow vs series flow through the WRU.
Again, I am not supposed to be working on this :)

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Cold! Zero last night!
But worked in the sugarhouse on the WRU a little.
Finished the stiffners for the doors, and drilled holes for the handles.

I also added a piece of stainless 1 inch lip to the inside of the rear pan at the front and the back this is where the WRU will set down on and be able to seal this if needed. ( The King rear pan has a raised edge at the front and back and the old steam hood just set up against that edge. I thought the added lip would be an improvement to set the WRU on.)

I also now have a concept for supporting and moving the large WRU on and off the evaporator. The concept will be to add a pair of 2 x 12's 16 foot long across the sugar house and then use steel door track and rollers, or something like, that to lift then roll the WRU to the side of the evaporator for cleaning.
Haven got the lifting and rolling part worked out yet? Maybe another boat winch? Maybe the Harbor Freight power winch I have in the other room? Its good for 400 lb.

I have to design the float box and the air box and root out materials for those two items too.

Chris

[KenWP]

I bought a 1500 pound electric winch from Crappy Tire for $39 bucks. Just have to find a place to use it. Was going to use it on the meat pole but have to have some meat first.
What I really need is for she who must be obeyed to get some muscles so she can help me lift things. LOL
As far as I can tell a WRU is a fancy steam hood.

[3% Solution]

Chris,
Colder than a welldigger's backside here too!!
I knew you wouldn't let that project go!!! :lol:
It'll be ready for the first run!!!!
Keep us posted.
Drop a line if you need anything!

Dave

[Sugarmaker]

Ken,
:) I like the fancy steam hood concept.

Dave,
I keep punching away at the pieces. I have a head cold today, so not much accomplished except riding the trader and reading posts.


Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Some shots of the trial fit of the WRU skin on top of the rear pan.
I have the doors fitted and in place. As you can see these are hinged. Not sure how much steam I will get coming out around these? WRU sets fairly flat against the side rails and the pan end ledges where I may need some gasket materials?.
Getting ready to take this apart and set aside for summer project.
Again, any suggestions are welcome.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Also a shot of the proposed float box for the WRU. this is 12.5 deep x 6 inches wide x 16 inches long. It needs the seems welded and a 1 inch, half coupling fitting, welded in place for the out port. Plus hole for the 1 inch float valve assembly to come in the upper end of the 6 inch back side. I checked for height and I should be able to do a good visual on the float box function without standing on a piece of paper:)

Also will need to make some brackets or features to hang or hold it in place on the left side rear of the WRU. This is where my current feed line comes in from the tanks so only minor copper line work should be needed to get the float box plumbed in.
I made it deep enough that the entire sap pan Vees can be filled for cleaning.
Its not very fancy! But should work!

I have the air box remaining and the two long condensate drip trays to complete (bend) before I take down the hand break and remove the work table from in front of the evaporator.

You know we do have to get ready to make syrup this year:)

Regards,
Chris

[Dennis H.]

Very nice Chris, I bet you were hoping to get that thing done by the start of this season. Anyway now you will have 10 months to work on it after this season is over and that will give you plenty of time to get it perfect!

[smitty76]

Chris, looking awesome. doing a nice job.

good luck

Smitty76

[jrthe3]

looks good chris where do you get you stainless pipe fitting i deal with decker steel over off of 18 and ash across from the jail they seam to be fair

[Sugarmaker]

Boyd,
I heard that is a good place. I need to find them for fittings. Keith got most of his fittings there. Would this be on West 5 th st?

Smitty, thanks for the compliment.

Dennis,
Yes this may not be ready for 2010:( but Should be a nice project for this summer.

I did pick up another welder today. (someone please stop me I now have three welders on the property). It is a older MIG with gas option and looks like good controls on the wire feed and the heat. ALSO has stitch and spot options. I may pick up some gas (Argon Helium, Co2 mix) and 308 stainless wire (.024 dia.) and do some practicing, on some scrap pieces first.

Also I bent up the air box last night. 10-1/2 x 29 x 3-1/2.

Two Drip trays are next.

So I am quickly approaching the point that I will have a WRU in full KIT form (some assembly required):)

If it NEVER goes together I have learned a lot and had some fun!

Man if it did gain another 40 GPH it would help out on the wood consumption and reduce boiling time! OR would I just look for more taps????

Regards,
Chris

[jrthe3]

chris it is like 16 and ash if you head south on ash from 12 when you go under the tracks it is on left hand side the number is 814-454-2446 i deal a lot with them it is where i get my stack and the sheet metal for my hood

[Sugarmaker]

I did get to set up the (new to me) MIG welder and did some practice welds. Started with .030 wire and it was going to be to big so dropped back to .025 wire and did some trials last night and we layed some nice practice beads pulling rather than pushing the welding tip. I think this will work for the welding the guts of the WRU. May not work for some of the real fine details like the float box?


Must start to think about getting ready to make syrup!:)
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Cant let the WRU kit project go yet. It rained all day so I spent the afternoon in the sugarhouse, turned fab shop, and practiced welding. I made a hydrometer cup for Keith. And then started welding the float box, Air box and the drip trays. Ended the evening tacking the two ends to the main Vee pan and have it ready for Eric to weld.

By the way it is difficult to MIG weld thin stainless and it is even harder to get it leak proof. There I said it now I feel better:) Where's Chase Bortles when you need him?:)

Good news I got very little warpage in the items that I did weld. This MIG has a stitch feature that works well on outside corners to reduce burn through. I hate that when that happens!

Hey does it really matter if I get a couple drips from the WRU into the sap pan? I don't think so! Next to find or buy some Greenlee punches. I need 2 inch, 1.875, 1.75, 1.00 and maybe .75. Yep


If I keep poking at it I may have time to get this done this year? Hummm? Still lots of moves to make.


I know, wheres the pictures!
Regards,
Chris

[Daryl]

Chris,
Try Knickerbocker Rental on Pittsburg Ave. near the RR tracks for the hole punches. I talked to Hite Co, they suggested a plumbing and heating contractor. The electrical ones are odd sized for conduit. The kits don't have 1 1/2 and 1 7/8 in them, also cost about $350.00 I have 7/8, 1 1/8, and 1 3/8 if that would help. Sounds like progress on the WRU.
Daryl

[Sugarmaker]

Have been busy with guests at mine and Keiths sugaruhouses this week GaryR and his uncle stopped and we toured Keiths place then Jim Bortles and son Chase stopped over to Keith's and then stopped to see the WRU and visited. We have most of the maple problems of the world solved!
I think Jim is going to build a dumping station for the big F250.
Eric came over this past weekend and laid down some MIG weld on the WRU. The two ends are now firmly joined to the main Vees. I need to water test it.
Then start poking holes for all the fittings.
I did find a set of Greenlee punches that I could borrow and that will help me to make a nice clean hole for the tubes and the weld on fittings.
So we are making some progress!
I do have pictures but need to get them posted!

Regards,
Chris

[Gary R]

Chris, the WRU is looking good. I got to see it in person the other night. I can understand how it might not get done for this season. It is rather complex with ALOT of welding. Big also. Looks like a 2 person job just to move it in position to fabricate. Look forward to seeing all that hot water some day!

[3% Solution]

Hey Chris,
See I told you, you couldn't / wouldn't drop that project!!!!
You want to see steam, lots of steam this spring.
Glad your getting it together for this year.
It'll go quick now, just piping it up.
Good deal!
Can't wait to see pics.

Dave

[Sugarmaker]

Update: Several posts with some pictures.

Notice, I called in the BIG guns to do the welding. That's (son) Eric Casbohm at the controls of the MIG!

Disclaimer:Please DO NOT! I repeat DO NOT confuse this WRU with a Steam-a-something! This is a stainless steel yard flower planter system.:)

Also this WRU has many features that Steam-a-somethings don't have like:
- Several leaks we haven't found yet.
- Many ripples and warped areas that add patina.
- Welds that could be prettier. But its not going to fall apart!
- A general out of squareness that is custom fit to match the out of square rear pan, and the steam hood.
- Many bends that look like a drunk blacksmiths wife made them.

This is the type of project that you only want to do once in your life!

Man its going to look good with daisy's and marigolds in it!:)


Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

more planter pics. ( float box too. Should work good to hook the garden hose to in the yard)

Guessing I have about $500 invested in materials and equip to date. LOTS of Labor! Lots of learning too. Need to look for blower and float system.

Always trying to make something out of nothing! That's why this is the HOMEMADE thread! Suggestions always welcome.

I did see info on here about allowing similar units to be cleaned. I may have to re-think my plumbing to allow this unit to be drained and filled with water and allow the blower to run for cleaning.
Regards,
Chris

[3% Solution]

Sugarmaker,
Looking good!!!!
I think the flowers should be the summer job for it.
Sap will look better in it this spring!!
Hot bubbling sap!!!!
Your going to like it!
Have fun.

Eric (master welder),
The old man should be paying you big time!!!! :lol:

Dave

[Sugarmaker]

Punched holes all over the place. Thanks to Jim and Chase this went a lot quicker. Greenlee punches work great for this job! I was able to get several sets and have enough sizes to cover most of the work.

Tacked in a center splash shield down the center tonight.
Chris

[Bucket Head]

It looks good Chris! Keep the photos coming.

Steve

[Sugarmaker]

Talked to Dave (3%solution) tonight (my guiding light on the WRU) and got some good tips and details for the air bubbler system.

We also among other things discussed the topic listed in the title of this post. Namely would a parallel flow preheater be advantageous on top of the WRU? Any comments either way are welcome. This was not in my plans but plans can be changed too.
I do have a good preheater setting here. Seems that preheating the cold sap would be a plus? But then I thought I heard that cold sap is preferred in a WRU system? Anyone out there try this and have results they could share?

Steve,
Thanks! I always like when folks post pictures it really shows whats happening! I have a terrible time (slow) getting pictures loaded. Not doing something right, between camera and computer and photo shop software.

Off to whittle on stainless!

Regards,
Chris

[Gary R]

Are you sure your arch will hold all that:rolleyes: I think it sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure why you would prefer cold sap going into the WRU. For the WRU to work do you not need hot sap? The air is used to create bubbles. The bubbles create greater surface area in the hot sap, thus releasing more steam?

Sounds like your fixin' to get this thing running this year:)

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Leader says in a steamaway, a preheater will not increase the boil rate enough that you can even measure it, so they recommend against it which is good, one less thing to worry about.

[3rdgen.maple]

Chris do you have any idea what your increase in evaporation rate would be? I am wondering if it would not be more cost effective plus get me a higher evaporation rate on my 2x6 by adding a steamaway versus upgrading to a 3x8. If I can save space and and reach the same or better numbers versus trading up to the 3x8 I would have to really consider the path you are taking.

It looks very good and betting you saved some good coin versus buying one from the big 3

[Gary R]

Brandon,

It would be easy to measure. Every bit of condensate you collect off the preheater is a gain. Leader probably wouldn't want to sell a "Preheater/Steamaway combination because it would cost more than the rest of the evaporator. How many floats are you going to have to watch Chris?:rolleyes:

[3% Solution]

3rdgen,
I figure we increased about 10 gallons per hour which is an increase of 50%.
That's an average, we have had it as high as 65% when things are right.
It still isn't running the way I want it to yet, hopefully this year it will be.
To me (now this is my opinion only) a steam-away is the way to add on, you get the best of both worlds, pre-heater and evaporator.
Hoe this helps.

Dave

[Sugarmaker]

Dave,
Glad you jumped in your rig is similar in size to 3rd gen. I would have had to scratch my brain to adjust for the size increase.

Brandon,
I have not heard of anyone doing it ( adding preheater also) and I am sure that it must have been tested. I assume that if it did add efficiency it would have been recommended too.

3rd gen,
As far as savings if you add in your (my) time as real dollars I am sure it would be cheaper to buy a new one. I was looking for a used one and gave up. They are out there, but not many just the right size. I had most of the stainless that I gleaned off bulk tanks. Some time, some basic fab skills. and a desire to improve the efficiency of the operation.

Will I get it done this year? Really all depends on the weather. I will continue to play with it until the weather breaks then go like heck to get ready to make syrup.

I need to get some more pictures for you guys!

GaryR,
I have thought about the condensate water from the outside of the preheater. Follow me and challenge me too. The drips are made from the steam on the outside of the pipes. Yes its good to not have them drip in but the more I think about it they are not reducing the sap volume. The drips are just a by-product of the process and need to be removed so the don't drop back into the pan and add water back into the sap.???
But the preheater does use the steam to bring the sap from say 40 degrees to 200 degrees.
I will have to watch two float boxes. one on the WRU and one on the rear pan.
My float on the rear pan may not have as many issues with much less head pressure (only 20 gallons of sap in the WRU). The float in the WRU has not been chosen yet.

So is it better to splash 200 degree sap (from a preheater) onto 200 degree steam pipes or 40 degree sap onto 200 degree steam pipes? HUMM? I am sure there is a thermal dynamics of physic guy out there that can make a recommendation.

Regards,
Chris

[jrthe3]

chris why couldn't you plume it so you can use the preheater and not use it and see withch works better

[3rdgen.maple]

Thanks gents for the feedback. I often have questioned why not just have a steamaway instead of a preheater then I seen their price. It has got me really thinking. I made some calls today and from the numbers some dealers gave me on gph they all put me up to a 20 gph increase with a 4 foot flue pan. They put the 3x8 bare bones at around 60 gph. I am getting 40 now on my best days so the numbers add up. I just have to do some math in my head on what I think I can handle with 60 gph or just go with the 3x8 and build it up from there. At what point dose tha madness end....I have 6 weeks of boiling on my rig and already looking to get another.

[Sugarmaker]

3rdgen,
Not sure it ends till we are resting in the ground. I haven't seen many that can walk away form it. Something about fire and boiling, I think it may be from the stone ages:)
Talk to Jim Brown on here he pumps a lot of sap through his rig with a R.O. and a steamaway. He has lots of taps too for his size operation.

Some pictures too!

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

couple of other shots too. ( Opps may have duplicated some? Once you have seen one WRU you have seen them all!)

Got some more holes punched in it and ordered the rubber grommets and door handles from McMaster Carr, the grommets will allow some of the pipes to pass through and limit the steam.

Also ordered the grommets for Keith's hood too.

I got sticker shock when I went looking at copper to plumb it tonight at Lowes. It is going to be $200, ouch. No wonder I am eating peanut butter for lunch!:)
Blower will be another $200. another tank of welding gas $40, sealing gasket material $200......it just goes on and on and on:)

Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I thought the same thing about Leader saying a preheater doesn't help until it was explained to me that yes, there is a lot of steam off of the steamaway but there is so much cold air blowing thru it from the high pressure blower, it kills any efficiency gain with the preheater.

[Gary R]

Chris, I am following you. Sorry guy's, I should think more before I "speak".

Try a plumbing supply store. By this time you should already have an account set up with them:) Venango, Trumball, Dobie tec.

[Sugarmaker]

GaryR
I had to think about that condensate from the preheater also. I had myself convince for years, that the condensate coming off the preheater was water I didn't have to boil, I was sure I was saving gallons of water, But the water has already boiled, turned to steam, and back to water. The good thing is that you catch it before it drips back in. Heating the sap prior to going into the flue pan is a definite advantage! How much? Dealers say 10 to 15 percent?

I think Deckers stainless fittings were cheaper than copper!

Boyd,
Looking like I will not plumb the preheater in for the first go. I know it could be set up that way. I am going to look at the float system you recommended.

Brandon,
Cold air blowing or hot air blowing? Not sure what the air temp will be after boiling for several hours??? I will try to monitor that somehow? If I ever get this thing going.

Eric came over and in 20 minutes gave me some good suggestions for blower location, (maybe down near the floor?). Also we reviewed all the welds he is going to have to make on the tubes. He made suggestions on plumbing the float box to the WRU to make it function better by adding two short nipples and a union. Plus we designed a support bracket for the float box which will make it look good too. ( that's code for: hiding some of my poor welding)

Good news too! He has been called back to work after being laid off the better part of a year! He works in the maintenance department of a die casting shop.

Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Whether the air temp is 40 or 80 degrees, it is still way colder than 180 to 200 degrees of the sap in the WRU or steamaway.

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
I agree.
Picked up some more stainless fittings today. The seals from McMaster Carr arrived today too, I really like that place, lots of items for selection and they ship quick!


Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Question for those that may have a steamaway. Do the bubbler holes in the air tubes point up or down? My gut says they should point up like in a hot tub, with a couple pointing down for draining. I do know that some folks have theirs pointed down. I have not been close enough to a production version to get this detail but don't really want to do it twice.

Got back at this WRU project for a couple of hours tonight.

Feeling just a little run down (cold?) so not moving quite as fast today.

I punched the hole through the left side panel for the 1 inch entry line from the float box. Drilled 7- 3/16 dia holes for the condensate to drain from the rear catch tray into the rear exterior panel drain. Hope that works.
Built 2 intermediate triangular shaped braces that will be added at the mid point under side of the Vee's and will reinforce the side panels. Took a hour or so to carve out those little jewels:)

I have some serious clearance restraints for areas of the plumbing and may need to solder some of the copper fittings into the stainless to get pies to align.

I did get out and hang another 250 taps of short run tubing this afternoon. It was sunny, but cold wind. You could feel that it wont be to much longer and we may get some syrup weather. Took about 2 hours. About another 100+ and all the tubing will be in place.

Regards,
Chris

[Jim Brown]

Chris; In mine they point up .The clearence between the bubbler and the steam pipes is an inch or so(as you know) .Which lets plenty of sap to run under the steam pipe to get to the air.Also you will need to run the sap about half way up on the steam pipes to get a "good boil"per say in the unit when it's running. You will find out what works for you.You will need to put the defoamer in the unit not the pans and the defoamer will travel into the pans on it's own. You may not have to defoam the sugar pan either.We don't

Hope this helps
Jim

[Sugarmaker]

Jim,
Thanks, holes pointing up seem to be the natural way to let the air out and travel up to the steam tubes. I will put a couple down also to allow the air box to drain.
Talked to a spa guy today and he said that a shop vac as a blower might work well, he said one producer uses a motor very similar to a shop vac . Humm!

I made some brackets to hold the air box in place. found some little errors on some hole locations and cleaned up the side supports from last night.

My air tubes are about 4 inches below the steam tubes. so about 4 inches of sap to bubble through.


Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Since the weather has been cold I have been tinkering with copper and stainless.
I tapped the ends of the vees for 1 inch pipe thread and screwed in 1 inch copper fillings. I may solder these to the stainless also.
I have cut the air tubes to length and made the holding brackets for the end of the tubes opposite the air box. ( air box has a lid to be added and welded in place.)
Also threaded the stainless elbows into the bottom of the air box. and tacked in place.
The copper air tubes will need to be soldered to the end of the Vee and also the copper fitting going into the elbow.
2 inch tube is tacked in place for the air inlet.
Also shot of the door (updside down).
And a shot of the MIG welder.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

The air tubes have have the caps soldered on and the .120 dia holes drilled at 2 inch spacing, 23 holes per tube. 92 holes for air to vent. I did get them in place and currently have the holes pointed down and slightly towards the center of the vee. Also the last steam tubes are installed in the center positions.
Just need to do some welding (a bunch, Need more gas) and many other things to complete this project. I think I am about 70% complete.
Wife thinks I am trying to get the WRU ready for this season!:) I just keep puttering with it. Time will tell. Weather is still to cold to tap.

Regards,
Chris

[Gary R]

Does that mean one good weekend and your done?:) We are all waiting to see how much it improves your evaporation. I just looked at Bascom's. A 3X5 Steam Away sells for $7,000. Are you going to beat there price?

[Sugarmaker]

Gary,:)
I smiled when I read your post. Probably several good weekends and several dollars away from finish. But I should beat Bascoms price by a few dollars also. It has been a great project. A little large for me with my skills and tools.
Just sold some buckets to local syrup maker who is expanding, and that may buy the copper and fittings for the rest of the WRU plumbing.
Just keep poking away at it.:)

Hope you ( and all traders) are getting all ready to go! A brief warm up this weekend will be a teaser for things to come.

I think I will put out the totes this weekend. That means digging 30 holes in the snow to set them. It all takes time and it all cant be done in one day, so I just bite off little chunks and work away at it.
Looking forward to a nice warm sugar house and hot fresh maple syrup to take the chill off!

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Been a while since I was able to work on this project.

Have been cleaning in the sugarhouse and it got a thumbs up from Cheryl when she was out there last night.

We did can up 40 LB of honey.:)

Here are some shots of the plumbing that I have dry fitted today. I think it is going to work OK. This is 1 inch line with a couple valves to allow parallel or series flow trials. I may solder this copper in the next day or so. Sure can't make any syrup with this weather.

The first shot is the front of the WRU where tha sap exits the left VEE (looking from arch front towards back).

Second shot is with the right side removed. Behind the door will be the valve that can be set to control the flow.

Third picture is the drop down to the float box union. This comes horizontal through a hole in the side panel. Added a union here so that the panel can be removed while doing fit up work.

Fourth is a picture of the lines at the rear of the WRU coming from the float box and into the VEES as parallel or flip the three valves and run it as a series flow. Note the valves just fit and will have to be reached through the doors in the upper hood. That should be fun hope my arms are long enough:)

Shot 5 is again the back of the WRU as the sap will enter from a union on the float box. Added another union in the line just so I can get all the soldering done and remove the outside panel if I need to.

I was able to get out of Lowes and Home Depot for just under $200 for the 1 inch copper and fittings. I had 6 inches of 1 inch dia left from a 10 foot length.

Modifications will need to be made to the incoming feed lines into the WRU float box and the WRU to rear pan float box also.

Still welding to do on the steam tubes and the air box assembly. Plus all the panel assembly.
Did lease a tank for the welder for 99 years. I told them I will probably only need it for another 30 to 35.:)

Regards,
Chris C.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

Looks like you are getting close. Way this weather is, you may have plenty of time to get it finished.

[Sugarmaker]

Since the weather was not great for tapping I spent the afternoon working on the WRU.
Disassembled, applied flux then soldered all the 1 inch lines.
Did a water test and found some minor leakes in the 1 inch fittings into the stainless. I then tipped dthe WRU on each end and soldered the copper Air and SAP lines into the ends of the stainless Vee's. I used liquid flux for this stainless to copper connection. Got a much better connection with the piece in the correct position.
Welded the 1 3/4 dia. steam tubes in place on the outside of the Vee's, 20 places.
Welded the fours SST air box drops, Air inlet tube and half coupling plus welded the air box lid shut.
Also welded the 1 inch SST outlet for the float box.
Installed the air box into position, will solder the four fittings to the air lines later. Air holes are pointing down and slightly towards the center of the Vee.

This unit is about all that I want to lift and handle.

Percent completion about 87%

Need the mounting system for the float box. Weld on the drip trays. Then start working on the skins. I think I may solder the skins to the Vee's to seal the steam underneath. Will use the torch to heat the old copper soldering irons for that and have the unit on its side.

Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

At 87%, all I can say is that you better get on the ball and get this thing finished as you have strung us along enough and we don't want to wait until 2011 to see how it works! LOL. Either way, I am sure it will be good and if you can get a couple more days, I see you cranking out some syrup on it this year.

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
Thanks for the push! Usually its Dave 3%, havent heard from him maybe he's mad at me? :) Or he may be busy making syrup?
Yea I will need to step it up a notch If I am going to get this WRU ready for this season. Would love to get a few boils with it.
If I get it done, it would take about 8 hours to get it installed and operational.

The last 10% is the hardest!

I am going to water test again tonight (with my fingers crossed and my toes:)). I am past the point of no return! If I have leaks in the welded air box joints they are just going to have to leak! Its only sap and it will just go into the boiling pan below so not a big deal.

I did get the four air box connections soldered to the air tubes.
Pop rivited the air box to the supports.
Welded the two main drip trays below each Vee. Also started to set up the attachment of the float box.

About 89% complete:)

Regards,
Chris C.

[Sugarmaker]

First water test was a disaster! I had leaks all over the welded seams of the airbox.
So after considering several options I chose to solder the outside of the air box seams. Also the seams on the ends of the steam tubes.
After water testing again this p.m. I was much more confident that this will work. I had four minor drips and lost maybe a 4 tbl spoons of water over 6 hours. I can live with that!
So we move on to the next steps. build two more drip trays for the air box and for the copper feed tube. Start to think about attaching the side and end panels.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Spec'ed the air blower and ordered it last week. It arrived and I have found a spot on the outer wall. It will be mounted under the eve. I chose a 1.5 HP AQUA Spa brand. 120 V. The tech I talked to said I could run this on a rheostat and tune the air flow.
I have been too busy to work on this project much except in my head.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Found out I really did not need this equipment as much as I expected this year, since our longest boil was about 4-1/2 hours on raw sap:)

Hope your season was a good one! Looking forward to getting the WRU on-line for 2011.

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Finally got some time to get back on this project.
I have completed the drip trays for the air box and below the copper tubing. The float has been fashioned from a old Leader "z" arm float system and should work well since those are tried and true.
I did get a nice stainless box type float that is a perfect fit. This came from some horse trading with Tappin & Sappin. THANKS!
Welded on some stiffeners to the air box to keep it from "popping" during air pressure from the blower.
Built the temp probe holder and the port for taking sap for sugar content on the out tube from the WRU and just above the rear pan float box. This consists of several brass fittings and a small petcock valve.
Dry fitting the sides again on the WRU for hopefully the last time:)
Also will water test the air bubbler system before I compete the side panels.

While I had some time I took the pans off the arch and cleaned the bottom of the flue pan. It was really bad. I have to repair the rear of the front pan too.

I also spent several hours leveling the arch and especially the top rails these had not been right for 10 years! I took out all the fasteners along the rail and raised the center of the rails about 3/8 of a inch. Also the back of the arch was raised another 1/2 inch too. This brings the arch much more level and has been bothering me for some time. I wanted to get this done before setting the pans and the WRU.
I also am sanding and buffing the stainless side panels to bring back the stainless shine. Then will give the castings a quick coat of stove black paint.

Hope spring is going well for all the traders.

I need to get into the bees!

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

I know you guys are getting tired of checking this out but here are some pictures from the weekend.:)
I feel that the bubbler trial was a success. I thought I had good action around and over the tubes.
The first picture is a shot of the AQUA Spa bubbler mounted temporarily on the air box.
I filled the WRU to half way up the tubes with water. Plugged in the blower and bubbles went well over the tubes
The second picture is when I added a gallon on vinegar and let it cook for a half hour and it really cleaned up nice.
The third picture is just water at the center level of the tubes.
The fourth picture is sap outlet with the fitting that will hold the thermometer and has a small valve on the side that can be used to get a sap sample for checking sugar content after the sap has exited the WRU.
I also started the fit up of the side and end panels last night, and actually have both sides firmly attached. Man I hope they are in the right spot. Also all the corners have been fit and tuned.
While resting I used the old steel float arm as a pattern and made a new stainless one for the rear pan lower float box.
Also fit and soldered the 1 inch inlet fitting assembly for the WRU float box. See next post for additional pictures.
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Some other shots
Picture 1 is the WRU float box which uses some old Leader components, and a modified "Z" arm now a straight arm to the float.
Picture 2 is the WRU with water at approx center of the steam tubes and the Aqua Spa running.
Picture 3 is my beautiful wife making syrup at the draw off station.
Picture 4 is Cheryl gathering sap.

Regards,
Chris

[Gary R]

Looks real nice Chris. How many hours do you have in this:) ? For the thermometer port, did you just solder a brass nipple onto the copper elbow? You'll be done boiling soon after you start. You'd better line up some more taps.

[Jim Brown]

Nice job Chris! Looks alot like the one sitting on my back pan only nicer!(LOL)

Jim

[Sugarmaker]

Gary R,
Yes I soldered in a brass "tee" for the thermometer port. Then drilled the inside of the "tee" to just larger than a Taylor thermometer stem. This will give me the temp of the sap exiting the WRU. Hoping I get at or near 200 degrees F.

Jim,
Thanks for your assist in viewing your Steam Away.

Spent the morning in Hamot outpatient surgery getting the old plumbing checked out. Not moving too fast today.:)

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

OK its on!
This thing (WRU) is going to be finished before mid year if possible! With a trial firing some time this fall!
The skins (sides) are stitched on with stainless pop rivets (thanks to Keith Talbot for providing those) I placed the rivets on 2 inch centers and it pulled the panels together nicely. The front and back panel have been fit in the corners the best I can. I hope this thing is flat and fits the pan:)
Major challenges:
1. Tip the WRU on each side and solder the seams to keep in the steam.
2. Get the corners where the skins come together water tight! Tig, Mig or Solder?

Other interest:
Got the arch (all the castings and rails) wire brushed and painted with high temp stove black. Plus polished the stainless side panels to make them more presentable. That looks way better and will be ready for 2011.
Thinking of making a secondary skin for over my smoke stack. This would be just 5 feet high and would keep some of the heat contained and look better! Its looking a little rough. I have the stainless just need to find the time for that project too. Darn work thing keeps getting in the way of my play time.

Looked at the bees yesterday. Hey maybe we will get another bee keeper on the trader stay tuned. Down to only two strong hives:(
Added two super to each and took out a couple of the dead colonies. Need to get those boxes ready for some swarms! Swarming season is just around the corner.

Back to maple! Made a batch each of mustard, BBQ and peanuts for local horse plowing event Saturday in Girard PA.

Regards,
Chris

[jrthe3]

chris the rivet do they have stainless steel center pins if so do you know where keith got them all the ones i have found have just steel pins and they make a mess when they rust

[Haynes Forest Products]

Jrthe I get mine from HD you can get them with Aluminum centers but they dont tighten up as the steel or SS

[Sugarmaker]

Boyd,
Keith got a 1000 rivets somewhere in ERIE I will have to try to find out. Keep bugging me. or Call Keith 814-756-0926.
They do not seem to rust and the stem pulls and breaks real though for 1/8 inch rivets so I believe they are in fact stainless stems.

I have the WRU 99% complete. :) Good cause I am getting tired of rolling this beast over and over. It must weigh 200 LB? I did a trial fit of the steam hood and it fits pretty well. May need to find some type of seal between the hood and WRU.
The soldering went well over the weekend I believe I got 95% of the places where steam may have been able to leak out.
I will be taking it to a local fab shop for TIG welding the corners of lower skins to allow the condensate channel to be water tight.

All and all I learned a lot. It was a large project for my megar operation.
Key tools:
The hand brake
Mig Welder
Torch outfit
Cutting and grinding tools
Good solid work bench for layout and fab
Google Sktech up for design.
Multiple sets/sizes of Greenlee Punches

I have some pictures I will post soon. Working on new double layer skin for the smoke stack to freshen this up a little. Need to rebrick 2 places in the arch. Then add the new gasket material and set the rear pan.
Also in the plan is some type of a lift and move system to get the WRU up and down from the evaporator. Any ideas on what people use to lift their Steam Aways would be helpfull.

Regards,
Chris

[DrTimPerkins]

Boyd,
Keith got a 1000 rivets somewher in ERIE I will have to try to find out. Keep bugging me. or Call Keith 814-756-0926.
They do not seem to rust and the stem pulls and breaks real though for 1/8 inch rivets so I believe they are in fact stainless stems.

I used to own a small experimental plane (lots of fun). Had to do some work on it (my instructor had a mild-crash landing....twice....with me in it both times). In any case, they make rivets in lots of different configurations....all aluminum or all stainless and everything in between. I pulled a LOT of rivets during the rebuild.

Info page is at:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cherrynrivet.php

Be forewarned.....if you think "maple" stuff is expensive, try substituting "plane" instead. I'm sure you could find these types of rivets from non-aviation sources as well.....and probably a lot cheaper.

[802maple]

FASTENAL carries all different kinds of rivets from steel,aluminum and stainless steel.

[Jim Brown]

Chris; Those ratch lifts I use on my (WRU) are 6 bucks each at the tractor store and they hold real well.Rated for 600# I think. Nice thing about them is they have a ratch lock,pull the rope through the pulley and the 'dog' hold the load. That way you can lift it your self. raise one side or corner and then go to the other side or corner and lift that side .Like yours mine is heavy and one needs to be able to get to the flue pan to clean it and help is not always avalible!I have one on each corner.


Jim

[Sugarmaker]

Thanks for all the advice and guidance from the fellow traders. I would not have tackled this project if it was not for folks helping me.:)

I have some brackets to add for lifting. Jim has the right idea , I may expand a little on that since My unit must weigh 200 lbs.

To answer Gary's question I am afraid to guess how many hours I have in this. About 50% of the hours were thinking and or planning.

Dr Tim,
I don't want to think of the cost and time in building a plane. The company I work for builds parts for helicopters and they take a long time and lots of dollars.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Some shots of the WRU (We call it the WalRUs) as we fit the hood and the pan to it.
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Another shot or two.
Also have completed the lifting brackets they will be on the inside of the hood and inside of the rear pan.
Several ideas for building a lifting gantry system. Might put a electric hoist on it?
I am not planning on suspending the WRU . It will set direct on the rear pan with the weight transferred through to the arch.
I did get the SST screws in the rails along the sides of the arch.

Has any one put a skin on the outside of there smoke stack?

Chris

[Daryl]

Nice WRU. I'll come up and check it out.

[Sugarmaker]

Building the trolley system to lift move and lower the steam hood, the WRU and the rear pan from the evaporator.
Added a 2 x 10 16 foot long two place across the sugar house. From the 2 x 10 will be mounted 8 foot barn door tracks. A frame (steel) will be built to attach to the door roller system and one or two hand winches will be added to the frame to do the lifting. ( maybe a electric winch if I can squeak it out of the budget). Electric would be nice since I would not have to climb up to operate the winch.
Should be able to lift and move and then set the unit down off the evaporator by myself. This would facilitate cleaning. At least that's the goal.

Some pictures to follow.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Some shots of the track system I put up over the rainy weekend.
Off to find some steel for the hanging frame.


Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Man time flies,
some last minute details:
- Completed fabricating and painting the carriage system for lifting and moving this animal. (still some minor tuning to do on this)
- Placed new rail gasket on the top of the arch prior to setting the pans.
- New insulation material between the front an rear pans.
- Added the FDA approved gasket material to the rear pan and top edges of the WRU to the hood to seal in the steam and cover some of my building flaws.
- Added the two external stainless control rods above the float box, to be able to work the two valves at the rear of the WRU. These control the flow of sap and can be changed during a boil.
- Painted the block around the arch based that got discolored from running with the grates in upside down. (What a dummy)
- lowered the rain collar on the steam stack for the rear pan.
- built two drain pipe extensions for condensate.
- mounted the SPA bubbler air pump and wired it in with a switch.
- sealed the leaks in the 2 inch air line from the SPA pump.

Need to get busy filling the wood shed with pallets.

Where is 3% when you need him????:) He got me into this!

Yes I will try get a few more pictures in its home position!

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Some pictures of the custom built WRU installed on the old 3 x 10 KING.
IT FITS! Hope I put it on right side up:)

White 2 inch PVC is the air inlet from the bubbler mounted outside the sugar house. I may have more pressure drop than I thought and hope the bubbler is big enough to get the desired sap action.

I have used the lifting system to install, disassemble, and reinstall the rear hood, the WRU and the rear pan. Seemed to work OK. I can now remove these by my self in about 15 minutes.

Where's the SAP! Hoping to get near 120GPH with this piece of equipment.

Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

It looks great and be great to see how it works. Leader does use a 6" PVC pipe on their blowers for the Steamaways, even on the small ones.

[Dennis H.]

Very nice, I love the trolley setup to pull the WRU out of the way for cleaning or what ever.

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
Yes this blower system may be too small? Time and trials will tell if I have enough bubble (air) action around and over the steam tubes. I can get a bigger spa blower which in hind site would hav been a good option.
Dennis, Thanks I had sketched this on a napkin and the real thing works better than the concept:) I think it would lift the WRU better if I brought the cable through another pulley and back up to the rolling frame.
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Minor set back, While visiting my neighbor and looking at his stainless hoods on the inside . I came to realization that the supposedly stainless rivets that he was sold were in fact steel:( So I just ordered 400 stainless rivets to replace all mine, and Keith can do his if he wants too).
Regards,
Chris

[Bucket Head]

Thats too bad with the rivits. Many stainless steel rivits have a steel stem (the part that breaks off) in them and they rust. Look closely at all the stainless grills H. Depot, Lowe's, etc. have outside on display. If they have been out there a while, you'll see the rusty stems. My buddy bought a grill last spring and by the end of summer he had rust marks on the thing where the rusty colored rainwater ran down the thing. No, the food does not touch that area, but like any food prep tool, its not very appealing. I had an aluminum sled trailer and the salt sheild had zinc plated hardware that rusted also. That stuff got changed out in short order.

If anyone has any doubts about stainless hardware your going to use, see if a magnet picks it up. Good quality stainless will not be picked up by the magnet.

Steve

[Sugarmaker]

Steve,
Yes, 1 second of checking with a magnet could have save several hours of rework.
Received the rivets from McMaster Carr and have replaced about 60% of the ones in the WRU already. I like the new rivets, they have a larger domed head and are 18-8 stainless material. $11.50 for 100. They look good and will last the life of the unit with no corrosion:) I ordered a extra hundred and gave Keith a box for his hoods.

Might actually do a test boil next week?????

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

OK,
The folks with steam aways can jump right in here!:)
I couldn't wait any longer. It was cool Sunday afternoon so I filled the WRU with water and the evaporator and began boiling water for a test. Here are some of the results. Please let me know if these match any results on similar 3 x 5 steam aways.
I wasn't firing very consistently do the fact that I was checking things a lot, so the fire box temp was up and down.
At the most consistent firing (stack temps about 600-700 degree)
I WAS GETTING ABOUT 20 GALLONS + OF CONDENSATE PER HOUR OFF THE DRAIN OF THE WRU. THE TEMP OF THE WATER COMING OUT OF THE WRU WAS BETWEEN 170 AND 190 F. (I used to get 180 to 200 on the preheater)
The floats worked OK. But I will have to do some more tuning as I begin to boil sap next spring. The first float on the WRU worked real well with 200 gallons of water upstairs.
I really did not check the rate of boil (GPH), But I was getting about 4 times more condensate than the previous parallel flow preheater tubes.
All the seals and joint work kept the steam in the WRU. I even had a witness, as Jim Bortles stopped over and took a look.
Next step will be to tweek the condensate drain to lower it and try to get water to discharge easier.
I did try the series vs parallel flow, but really did not give it enough time to run that way. The above numbers are with the series flow path for the water thru the WRU.
The bubbler seemed to work well and agitated the water over and around the steam tubes.
Hope I can get an improvement in sap concentration next spring!

Regards,
Chris

[mapleack]

Sounds good Chris! When are you building me one??

[Sugarmaker]

Andy,
I have built something that:
Holds water,
heats water,
collects condensate,
and holds up a hood.
It is yet to be determined that it actually will increase the sugar content.
At this time I am not planning to build any more:) Someone said that building one of these in a life time is enough. I think that is a good summary!
Chris



Sounds good Chris! When are you building me one??

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
My condensate drain tweek got a little carried away and I ground a hole in the bottom of the copper fitting coming out of the WRU.:(
RECOVERY IS EVERYTHING!
I took off the steam hood, picked up the WRU and slid it as far to the right of the evaporator as possible. Got out the Mapp gas torch and gently soldered to hole shut. Whew that was close. Reassembled and water tested it. Looks OK.

Was reading Dr. Tim's post about the preheating of concentrate using steam away water.
Still wondering if the old parrallel flow preheater and drip trays would help on top of the WRU to preheat the incoming raw sap with steam from the WRU?? Interesting topic for future discussions.

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
This may or may not happen, but I wanted to include the photos of the possible addition of a preheater on top of the WRU. Just have it temporarily mounted for fit check.
Lots of discussion about the pros and cons on another thread (Oil fired problems) and I posted these same blurry pictures there also. Seemed to be a split decision as to whether it would hurt or help!

Now If I could just get Brandon to design and build me a AOF, I would only have cut a couple sticks of wood, kick back in the rocking chair, let the sap flow in one end, and the money roll out the other! But that's another thread. I have taken up enough of your time with this project:)

LIFE IS GOOD

Regards,
Chris

[bobbyjake]

This is just an opinion and I have to say right upfront that I have no experience to substantiate it, but I have to believe that the most effective way to use steamaway condensate to preheat sap would be to split the raw sap stream so that most of it would go to the steamaway but the balance would go directly to the fluepan floatbox. Use the hot condensate to preheat the smaller stream going directly to the floatbox. In theory there is a point where all of the heat could be transfered from the condensate to the raw sap. Sap in the steamaway would be held back slightly getting concentrated more to offset the raw sap.

Of course, raising the temp of raw sap prior to the RO will make it scream through, but you need to be running it through the evap as fast as you can RO it or the bacteria go crazy.

[Sugarmaker]

OK I think we are getting in the weeds on this but here is a thought. If I set this up I will have valves that can control the flows into the preheater (WARM sap) and the flow from the head tank (COLD sap) into the WRU float box. In therory, then I could control the temp of the raw sap going into the WRU float box by adjusting the WARM and COLD sap and getting a blend. Not sure what temp would be optimal? Not sure this is of any value but thats what we do in the off season.

Really thinking about AOF system:)

Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Link to some pictures of the WRU boiling Sept 19 2010.


http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4059314/1/SugarHouse%20Pics%202010?h=1e165c

[jrthe3]

chris i read somewhere that people where putting the preheater between the flue pan and the steam away but they still ran the sap threw preheater first then up into the steam a way

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Some picture of our preheater above the WRU and plumbed in, water tested and all functions operational.
Still need to punch another 2 inch hole in the hood for the preheater exit line which I had to cross over the underside of the parallel flow. Also missing two small drain lines for air vents and a Taylor thermometer for the temp of the sap off the preheater.

Boyd,
Not sure how I ever would have put a preheater under the steam away , But you know maple folks where there's a will there's a way:)

Buy the way the one picture is where it got a little cold in the sugarhouse.

Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I would think that putting one under the steamaway would be going against the steamaway because what it would gain would be lost by probably twice in what the steamaway would gain, but maybe I am wrong.

Be interesting to see how much Chris gains in temperature with the preheater above the steamaway.

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
I am just a curious about how much wood you will save with the AOF system that you built!

I did get the 2 inch hole punched into the hood, ( boy those Greenlee punches work great) the small two vent lines plumbed and the hood in place. Only had to move the one large central air vent line a little:)


WHAT DO YOU HAVE UNDER YOUR HOOD?:)
Regards,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

I don't have any ideas or goals at this point. I hope it does as good as it is advertised. I hope to see a good wood savings or a good increase in evaporation rate burning the same amount of wood per hour. Be interesting playing with it to see what happens.

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
I have been watching the VIEWS on this post and we just hit 8,000!!!
Thanks again for hanging in there and following along with this project. Hope this inspires others to make improvements in there maple systems too. Several of the folks on here helped assure me this WRU could be done. I had a hoot!

We only got off track a couple of times:) Like the preheater thing:) and the AOF thing......

I am always available to share maple information.
I am not one of the big guys, just playing in amongst the maple trees!
Regards,
Chris Casbohm

[sweetwoodmaple]

See what you started Chris?

This is a low profile version that will nest under my steam hood. No V bottom, but should still work. I have my pressure air tubes coming in from the top so I don't have to solder them in from the sides (less leaks, hopefully).

More photos if progress continues (though I already bought the sst tubes). ;)

[Sugarmaker]

Brian,
I really like that concept, I thought about bringing the air tubes in from the top like a bubbler too. I had a early design like that too. Then folks convinced me I needed a air box so I went that way. Your top side air inject should work too!
Low profile and under the existing steam hood too. Nice compact design. How high are the sides of the pan?
Do you have a name for this animal yet? You might want to start another thread just so we can track you:)
Looks like maybe google sketch up 3D or another CAD system? I liked designing on the CAD system because it gave me a real good idea if things were going to fit into the design.
What wall thickness and dia on the steam tubes? I just used what I could find 1.75 O.D. x .060 inch wall.

Keep in mind gathering and removing condensate from the bottom of the new pan and from the ends of the steam tubes. When I tried the WRU I had 20 gallons per hour of condensate coming off. Since I looked at several designs prior to building the WRU I heard several folks say that getting all the drips was important.
So you for sure want to get that out of the evaporator.

Keep us informed!

Happy turkey day!

Regards,
Chris

[Bucket Head]

Chris & Brian,

How are your tubes (air & steam) configured? Chris, your air tube(s) is at the bottom, like a Leader rig, correct? Brian, how many tubes with yours, both air and steam? I'm assuming you need more air tubes with your flat design to get air to each tube? I'm having trouble visualizing the flat design. Maybe I'm just a little slow on the uptake here? Or, maybe I've eaten too much. Maybe things will be clearer later tonight, or tommorow...

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Steve

[sweetwoodmaple]

Chris,

No name yet, but if I really do get started, I'll get a new thread going.

My pan is 30" x 60" x 6" high. Water level planned at 1.75", with minus the 1/2 tube displacement in the water yields an even 10 gallons. The trough around the unit is where the consendate will collect from the tubes and my steam hood (which will surround this and sit in the outer lip). I need to tip the pan slightly to the back so I have at least some chance of condensate running back from the bottom of the pan. That is the main fault of the design so far, but I wanted to give the flat bottom pan a shot as it costs less to fabricate and makes the TIG work less.

Steve,

My copper air tubes alternate and barely squeeze in between the 2.5 and 2.75" diameter tubes (.07 wall unfortunately, but they were cheap). I will cross drill them at 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock to shoot air under each tube (at least that is my theory. If I need more tubes to get things frothing, I can do that.

No you aren't slow, I'm taking some risk with the flat bottom. I figure if I only cover 1/2 of the tube diameter and get lots of air frothing things up, it should work.

Targeting about $500 without my TIG work and all the pain/suffering.

I also wanted a flat design as my head tank is only about 6" above the top of my evaporator pans.

Also, this is designed to be a supplemental to the main float and path to the evaporator. If something goes wrong, I just leave things run as before.

[Sugarmaker]

Steve,
My design is similar the "L" design but different in several ways. I do have the air tubes running under the steam tubes and they have 1/8 dia holes about 20 in each air tube pointed down an slightly towards the center of each large "V". I think the WRU will hold about 10 gallons of sap in each "V", so 20 gallons total.
One of the things I added was a port to check the sap sugar content and sap temperature coming off the WRU to see how much improvement I may get.

Brian,
Those are big steam tubes, but should do the trick. Slight drainage to one end may work for the condensate to run off the bottom of the pan. Maybe some fins could direct the flow of condensate? Give it a try, or do some prototype designs on paper to work out the details. I would like to have a TIG someday, its on the list but down there a ways.

Regards,
Chris

[sweetwoodmaple]

Ha...similar to not having a boat, I don't have a TiG.. It's always nice to have friends with such things, if you know what I mean.

[Sugarmaker]

I love the look of nice clean TIG welded joints. Its on my bucket list to try to TIG weld some items together. I think I would really be dangerous if I had one and knew how to use it:)
Good luck with the pan design. Should be a nice winter project. I started mine about this time last year, it took longer than I anticipated to complete. Have you picked a air blower system yet?
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Its WORKING!
Update on the WRU [Water Reduction Unit] or sometimes refered to as "What the H--L is that big thing on your evaporator".
I have only boiled twice. Both times I fed the WRU with heated sap from the old parallel flow preheater mounted above the WRU. I have the damper in the steam stack set about the same as when it was on the rear pan, just holding back steam till it puffs out the seams. The sap temp entering the WRU float box was around 110 F.
I have not tried cold sap.
I set the WRU up to run the sap in a series flow path [longest], which is in one "V" and out the opposite end and then into the other "V" then to the rear pan float box. I have not tried the parallel flow path for the sap.
Sap temp coming out ranges from 160 to 180 F.
Sap going in was at 2%, sap exiting the WRU was 3.5 to 4%. Checked with visual refractometer.
About 25-30 gallons of condensate per hour coming off the WRU.
The 2 hp spa blower seems to be agitating the sap well. I do not have a air control so its running wide open.
Haven't got the floats dialed in yet. But feel that it will be more stable at the flue pan float box, with the 20 gallons of head in the WRU vs the 400 gallons that I had from the storage tank.
At this point I believe the WRU build was a success, in great part to folks on the TRADER giving me pointers and encouragement. Thanks Dave 3%:)
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

After lots of readings and improved inspections with optical refractomoter the WRU generally produces 3% sap when 2% was introduced.
I found that the refractometer and sap temp. need to be about 70 deg F. so I was not getting good readings if the sap was cold or the real hot. When I let the temp stabilize I got much more consistent readings.
I feel that this WRU was a huge factor in allowing me to get a little more sleep on those big runs this year.:) And also helped us make a lot more syrup.
For anyone starting or thinking about building one:
1. Get a decent TIG welded and learn how to use it. I did not, because I do things the hard way, and it was a lot more work. I used MIG and lots of soldered joints.
2. Get some type of brake so you can fab you own parts needed. I did this and saved a lot of running around to get parts bent up.
3. Add in drain/s to completely drain the unit. I don't have this [yet] and about 1/2 inch of water is in the bottom. Makes it better to clean up.
4. Have a lot of time available. cant tell you how many hours I spent on it:)
5. They are heavy and have to be flipped a lot. At least mine did. They are a 'big' do it your self project.
6. Check for water tightness as areas holding sap are completed.
7. Think about the system to lift and or support it on the evaporator.
8. The satisfaction factor was a 10.
9. Dollars wise I think the materials added up to about 25% of a factory job. My labor was not calculated in to the total cost, but if it was I am sure you would be better off buying a good used one or a new one.
Hope this helps those folks who might be considering a WRU or EEU [dave: 3% solution] type unit.
Regards,
Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

Sugarmaker what do you think about a steamaway that does not have the steam tubes but rather looks like a flue pan instead? Seems to me it might be easier to bend up a flue shaped pan and have the bottom sealed so steam can travel through the flues and exhaust out the other end. Any thoughts? I am thinking about seriously taking on this project myself but only want to do it once.

[cjmiller272]

I am toying with a similar idea, cutting slots in a large rectangular milk tank, then weldin in some flues leading to the vent tube. The wrapping the bottom with a skirt to capture the steam

[Sugarmaker]

3rdgen.maple, and cjmiller272
Both you guys have some great ideas.
I refered to the standard original method of manufacture of a WRU. My air tubes are in the bottom of the "V".

This is a big project. I was just too bull headed to stop once I started:) I do like boiling 3% sap!

I have not been up close and others can comment. But I think the idea of flues may be what the new enhanced version has rather than 2 "V"'s? Also the piggy back versions may have had flues rather than "V"'s????

Bulk tank lining may be a little thicker and may not conduct heat as fast but might weld easier?
Really heating sap using potentially wasted steam and agitating the sap to release more steam.
Could be other concepts out there too.
Take a look at Brian [Sweetwood maples] design for under the hood. I know he does not have any hours on it yet but clever compact design.
If I can help let me know or P.M. me too!
Regards,
Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

I think as soon as I get caught up with the spring cleanup and get wood put up for next years sugaring I will start on the project. I looked at pictures that do not show much at all of the new steamaways and it does look like they are now flue type setups. The only thing that is puzzling me is the condensate pan setup. Any ideas is more than welcome on that one. Should I put a full pan shallow pan under the flues with a slight angle to one corner for the drain?

[Sugarmaker]

3rdgen.maple,
I am sure you could get close to one if you went to Swanton this weekend. Might get some good ideas?
Maybe the flues taper towards the drain? I doubt if they have a drip pan ???
I have opened the side doors on mine many times this year and really don't see much condensate coming off the bottom of the two big Vees????
Good luck with your project. Name it, and set up a thread for us to follow your progress!
Regards,
Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

Sure wish I had the time to head up to swanton. I did look at the one on display at Verona but had no intentions at the time or even a thought about making one so I didnt look hard enough. I probably will put it build it then water test boil it and see what is needed for the condensate. If any one is going up and willing to snap a photo It would be appreciated. I will start a thread when I start the build. That is if I dont replace the whole rig first.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have to give it to you guys as you have the desire and the equipment to build things like a WRU. Interesting following your progress, but to me it is not worth time and trouble to save $$$ and I am probably not smart enough which is the biggest holdup or have access to the equipment I would need.

[3rdgen.maple]

Brandon Im not sure Im plan on taking on this venture for the money savings although it is nice to save some. With one being 5 grand I am sure I can beat that by 4 grand as I have alot of stuff for my work sitting in my warehouse that was stripped of used equipment. Pumps, blowers, metal, etc. The only cost I have come up with it the argon gas, fittings, hardware and ss sheets. Im sure Im missing something. It to me is more of putting my own peice into the process and say yeah I made that. lol Now if it will work is the big question.

[Sugarmaker]

I did not really build the WRU to save the money of buying one. I built it to save time and be more effecient. And it did the job this year as we made a lot more syrup on the same wood.
I had alot of the stainless laying around. I did buy a good used MIG welder and lots of small items and hand tools requiured. Also like 3rdgen, I like to say yea I built that:).
Well Back to work for me!
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I agree with you guys in that I like to say I built something myself but due to working a lot of hours and everything else I have going on, I know when enough is enough. Good luck and will enjoy your progress reports.

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
I see your up late too.
Always good to get your comments ideas and suggestions. Your detailed and run near the red line most of the time!
Regards,
Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

I see your up just as late Chris. lol I hear you about time Brandon I have been overwhelmed since october with work. Summers slow down for me so I should find the time to get after it.

[Sugarmaker]

3rdgen,
Did you build the WRU?
Regards,
Chris

[BoarsNest]

I am thinking about making a WRU. I was wondering if you had considered putting more than two troughs. My arch is shorter and narrower so I thought if I put more troughs it would provide more surface area to heat the sap. Any thoughts on that?

[Sugarmaker]

I am thinking about making a WRU. I was wondering if you had considered putting more than two troughs. My arch is shorter and narrower so I thought if I put more troughs it would provide more surface area to heat the sap. Any thoughts on that?

Sorry this took so long, Just not on much any more.
The new steam-aways have many troughs so you probably have the right idea.
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Maple folks,
Just a brief update on this WUR (steamaway) Well its been almost 10 years since the concept/ build on a budget. I have had good success and minimal problems. It consistently improves the sap to a higher level and helps reduce wood consumption. Provides 20 to 30 gallons of condensate per hour for clean up. I did have to get a new hot tub blower this year. It had a failure with the thick heat shield (rubber) around the motor. I was able to also get this rubber part from the manufacture for under $30 and did the repair myself. So I have a spare blower.
The WRU consistently produces sap at near 200 deg F into the rear pan float box. It typically contains 20 + gallons of sap which allows a buffer for shut down on the wood fired arch. i did run cold sap into it part of the season vs hot sap through the preheater. Didnt really see much difference in output. Generally see 1% improvement in sap sugar content through this unit.
Thanks for checking in on me!
Regards,
Chris