Sap Filtration

[Haynes Forest Products]

So I got to thinking about my whole house filter that I use to filter raw sap from my bulk storage into the head tank. The reason I filter is to get the sap as clean as possible before it hits the evap. BUT I may be getting the big chunks out but putting bacteria in. Unless I change the filter every day or even sooner I'm really just running clean sap with visable particals thru a dirty bacteria laden swamp.

Would I be better off with acleanable metal screen element with a UV light that only keeps the filter housing and screen clean when the pumping stops and the filter is sitting there growing bacteria?????

[3rdgen.maple]

I thought the house filter thing was a great idea until I tried it. If you do not keep changing the darn things daily it is like you said. I spent a few days the year I was using it out of the state and my dad took over for me while away. Forgot to tell him to change the filter daily and I came back to the worst tasting crap ever. Poor guy was trying to figure out what the heck was going on. Fixed that problem and threw the peice of crap away and not to mention saving money on filters. I went back to the old tried and true sock type filters that go on the end of your pipe. I have a few of them and switch them out daily. I can still remember the smell of that filter.

I am thinking(which usually leads to problems) that running uv when you are filling the head tank may not get you the best result. What if you filter the sap going into the bulk and then set up the bulk tank so sap keeps recirculating through the uv while it is in storage. My thinking is your holding sap longer in the bulk tank longer than the head tank which gives bacteria longer to grow in the bulk. This way you got premium sap going into the head tank. Or maybe I should just shut up.

[brookledge]

3rd gen
You are right about where to try and keep the bacteria in check. Like you said the bulk storage tanks are most likely to be where the sap stays the longest. I try to keep my storage tank as clean as possible and all of the sap that goes into it goes through my UV first.
Keith

[KenWP]

I need to pick up a few milk socks my next trip to a dairy farm. I am going to clamp them to the bottom of a big funnel and pour thru it. The local COOP had a whole box of them at distress prices but they were like 4 inches long and would plug up to fast.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I was only going to use the UV to keep the filter housing clean. I like using the honey filters they are like a thick nylon hose

[Brent]

When I was running the Merlin RO's I let them go one whole season the first year with a pre-filter built into the 3rd chamber ( 1 filter, 2 membranes ) When I took it apart I could not beleive the gung on the filter. No wonder the performance dropped. The second year I put a whole house filter with a clear cannister on the line between the pump and the Merlins. At the end of the first day the filter was slightly discoloured. The end of day two and it was yellowish and needed a change. I was using 1 micron filters to try to keep the bacteria out of the membrances, and I think it worked in that respect, but it sure may a breeding ground on the filter itself. $ 15 dollars every other day wasn't too hard to swallow.

This year with a real RO coming on line, I'm still contemplating my navel and what to do with filtering.

I have also considered using the UV filter and my idea was to have the UV on a line between two tanks. Haul in the sap and dump quickly into tank 1 then run off to the woods to get more sap. Meanwhile the slower feed rate that was needed for the UV would sterilize (it does not kill, only makes the bacteria impotent ) the bacteria as it flowed to tank two. If I had sap left over when I shut down, I thought I would have the rig plumbed so I could close a few valves and put in in a recirculate mode on tank 2.

All this planning is sort of counter-productive because we can't make enough medium or dark for what our customers are asking for. Maybe the trees and weather will change on of these seasons and we won't make so much light and extra light, but I'm still not ready to spend the money on the UV till we get too much / too dark.

Maybe I shouldn't be filtering so much either. Maybe it's the bacteria dead or alive that make the syrup darker. That's the impression I got from somewhere.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Brent Acording to my 1958 Maple Sirup producers manual (and yes that is with a I) Color formed is proportional to the amount of flavor formed BUT when background flavor "caramel" begins to be noticeably formed this relationship no longer holds. They also speak of fermenting as a facter in the formation of the color and taste.

If you take pure sap and freeze dry it it will be sweet but both white and tastless other than a sweet taste so color and taste is a product of what happens to the sap between the tree and the final product...Storage, cooking time, temps, quality of the sap, bacteria on and on and on.

[Brent]

I hear you and I'm trying to figure the real relationship here. I want more medium and a bit of dark.

There is a local sugar maker who has a fruit processing plant that decided that vacuum evaporation they use for fruit juices would be less engergy intensive than boiling so he trucked some sap down to the shop and had at it. He got nearly clear sweet syrup. But it had no maple flavour at all.

So between filtering, UV sterilizing, RO and a hotter evaporator, I'm thinking lots of this is counter productive to what I want. I guess the devil is in the details. How much of what makes it too fast and too clean and less flavourful.

Can Dr Perkins shed some light here ???

[3rdgen.maple]

Brent I'm confused a little here. If you are looking to make medium and dark then why are you going to all trouble of trying to make light? You already answered your own question. Like Haynes has said contributing factors of the quality of sap and the amount of boiling time will help in producing light syrup. So me thinks between the uv ro and all the filtering you are working against yourself. Now don't get me wrong I have never heard a clear answer as to why we produce the color grades we do and that more is involved than just the above 2 mentioned but they seem to be the ones we can help controll the best. If you like all the toys and do get some dark throughout the season blend it with your light.

[Brent]

3rdgen exactly the question.

The only reason I want to filter is to keep the RO membranes cleaner.
The first 2 years these trees gave us nothing but extra light. We were extatic. Light was so hard to make. We must have our act together. Beginners luck. But then the folks that came up the driveway kept asking for medium and dark. Finally last year we made some medium. Never made dark yet. I'd blend it if we made some dark.

So I'd really like to try to figure out the factors. Maybe run it through the RO to 8% and let if "brew" a day before we boil, to let the bacteria multiply and it will get a bit darker. I've read here that if you concentrate to much the syrup does not stay long enough in the pan and you won't get that hint of carmelization that we need. But there are members here that claim they concentrate to 22% and win prizes for flavour.

Sometimes I think its all voodoo and luck.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Lets get someone to change this thread to the art of making FLAVORFUL MEDIUM TO DARK SYRUP ( I dont mind ) Like most things you cook its all about time AND temperature. The only way I have ever been able to make good tasting Dark/B/What ever is to turn my finish pans into a batch evap by just cooking and cooking and going way over density in the finish pans. YOU MUST be standing buy with a bucket of COLD finished syrup just in case things get crazy. Try and go 5-8 points over then transfer to the finisher and just keep simmering and adding high density and dont boil at a high rate this is when low temp long time comes in.

Brent I dont think you want that HINT of Carmelization even though it will be the stoping point that you want. I also bottle 1-2 points over. Yes I know about the rock candy MMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Brent]

Haynes, that's interesting because this year I did not finish in a finishing pan. I brought it to overdensity in the syrup pan and then a few weeks later at canning, I thinned it down to about 67. That may really be the only difference between this year and previous years. Mind you I did run out of wood and missed the last 7-10 days here. But the previous seasons we went directly from light to buddy without passing medium or dark along the way.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

A number of years ago when I was still using a flat pan, I made a few gallon of light syrup and some of it was cooked at least 3 to 5 different days and cooked slowly and the syrup still came out light. I think bacteria is the biggest factor. I run close to 2" in my evaporator in both pans and still made majority light last year. I use a UV light and sometimes the sap sits for as long as a week, but most of the time 2 to 3 days due to work schedule and living aprox 30 minutes from sugarhouse. I try to keep bacteria count as low as I can under the circumstances and it helps. One of the things that helped the baterica count the last couple of years is throwing away about all the black mainline.

[gdtowne]

Your problem with making darker syrups is kind of funny; a few years ago, the goal was to make as much light as possible, but now demand has shifted. With all the new technology, there is nearly an over-abundance of light, and people like the taste of the dark (I personally like a very dark to grade B for my buckwheat pancakes). I have always had a concern with the new RO's and oil fired evaporators. To me, and this is just an opinion, but its the wood fire, and spending a certain amount of time boiling that gives it its flavor and color. It seems kind of biased, but I really do prefer the taste of my own syrup, and can often taste the difference if I should be at a friends house, who for some reason, did not buy my syrup. Its like comparing a hamburger cooked on a propane grill vs a charcoal grill, and them compared to one cooked solely in the microwave. They're all hamburgers, but which would you prefer. Anyways, this is just my rant on how technology is changing what we make.

Gerry

[Haynes Forest Products]

What gets me is the part about oil vereses wood With a closed hood How does the syrup Know. I have been in evap rooms with wood fired units and you cant smell any wood burning. Now a small amout will linger in the air but is it enough to get into the syrup and impart a taste???

I have a fellow sugar maker that is always telling me how his has a slight smokey taste from the wood burning arch and he does have a good cliant base but he also baught all my bulk from my oil fired and bottled it. And of course he raises pigs and says they dont smell either:o

[Brent]

I think the illusion of woody taste comes from the pan on the inside, not the fire underneath it.

I think, or guess that the amount of nitre and crude that cakes up on the inside of the pans adds some distinct flavour. There is a small amount of scorching between the nitre and the pan. You can see the difference when the flakes come off during cleaning. I think it makes a bit of the carmelized flavour too. The heat does not transfer through the minerals the same way as it does on a bare pan.

I will have to pay more attention this year to the flavour of the first batch off after cleaning the pans and the last batch after the nitre builds up.

And yes I also think one of the biggest factors is the amount of bacteria. The demand from our customers for darker syrup is why I have not taken the plunge to get a UV. In fact this year I'm going to switch back from a 1 micron filter to a 5 or 10 micron, in hopes of getting more dark stuff.

[Maplewalnut]

Aahhhhhh, another convert. Make all the dark and B grade syrup you can! I had two customers this weekend taste medium grade and say it has no taste. Gave a B grade taste and they commented thats what they were looking for. Customer is always right!

Brent-welcome to the dark side !(pun intended)

[tuckermtn]

maplewalnut- same observation here on demand- we sold out of our grade B long before our medium or light (with roughly the same # of gallons per grade)

I'm temped to call all my dark A "grade B" just so it sells...

we charge the same for the grade B as for all grade A grades...

-Eric

[Fred Henderson]

Silver and sap. I have been wondering if a piece of silver wire inside the filtered sap line before it gets to the holding tank would kill baterica and then some more (several feet ) inside the holding tank to keep the count low before its all boiled.

[Brent]

My wife takes little paper cups to the farmer's market and lets the customers sample the different grades.

We can't sell the light and extra light when she does that.

[red maples]

Your problem with making darker syrups is kind of funny; a few years ago, the goal was to make as much light as possible, but now demand has shifted. With all the new technology, there is nearly an over-abundance of light, and people like the taste of the dark (I personally like a very dark to grade B for my buckwheat pancakes). I have always had a concern with the new RO's and oil fired evaporators. To me, and this is just an opinion, but its the wood fire, and spending a certain amount of time boiling that gives it its flavor and color. It seems kind of biased, but I really do prefer the taste of my own syrup, and can often taste the difference if I should be at a friends house, who for some reason, did not buy my syrup. Its like comparing a hamburger cooked on a propane grill vs a charcoal grill, and them compared to one cooked solely in the microwave. They're all hamburgers, but which would you prefer. Anyways, this is just my rant on how technology is changing what we make.

Gerry

I agree... from being in the chefing business for almost 20 years. I have developed a pretty good pallet and I can taste bitter, smoke, scortched what ever and I like my syrup the best too.

last year I bought a bunch from different sugar makers so I could compare mine to them and some were good and some not so good some seemed thinner than others too. I got one that was dark A and honestly I would have to say it was so bitter and it tasted like comm. grade.

I have to say the best flavor (and most comparable to mine) was some I got from the maple guys on maple weekend we went to their sugar house it was nice a thick full rich flavor and it was medium.

I prefer medium and dark and B not crazy about light but its good for candy and cream.

just my opinion

[KenWP]

My best syrup was batch 10 for some reason. It's dark but not to dark but the flavour is great. gave some to one fellow and he figured it was great also. I gave a bunch away to people in small bottles and it was the lower grades and they all liked it anyways. I could taste a bit of off in it but others can't. I collected all the crap from the filters being rinsed and what was left in the cone filter that just would not flow thru and boiled it up and made the darkest syrup made and it tastes okay but I would not really give it to anybody else unless they were freinds and understood it's not the best.

[DrTimPerkins]

I have been wondering if a piece of silver wire inside the filtered sap line before it gets to the holding tank would kill baterica.

Short answer is no....it wouldn't.

In order to get any effective bacterial reduction, the bacteria must come into contact with silver ions. Silver doesn't dissolve very fast in water or sap, so there has to be contact of the silver and the bacteria. The way it works in water filtration units is that they have a ceramic filter with very fine holes and then coat it with silver, so the bacteria are more likely to contact the silver. The other difference is that sap (sugar water) has a MUCH higher level of bacteria than water alone, so the growth rate of any microorganisms in sap is WAY higher.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[DrTimPerkins]

So between filtering, UV sterilizing, RO and a hotter evaporator, I'm thinking lots of this is counter productive to what I want. I guess the devil is in the details. How much of what makes it too fast and too clean and less flavourful.

Can Dr Perkins shed some light here ???

This is a very complex question that really has no simple answer. Dr. Abby van den Berg and I wrote a 43 page review paper on sap/syrup chemistry that came out over the summer in "Advances in Food and Nutrition Research" (unfortunately you have to buy the book to get the chapter...sorry...we can't give it out). Everything that you "never" wanted to know about syrup chemistry. Realistically....most people wouldn't want to read it anyhow....very technical stuff.

There are several factors affecting the color/flavor of syrup. Some quick notes (without much description).

Air injection definitely makes lighter syrup with somewhat lighter flavor

RO concentration can make lighter syrup, but the flavor change is subtle or nil.

If you have a "wood" flavor, that is considered an "off-flavor". I have yet to taste an "oil" off-flavor.

People get accustomed to things they eat and their flavors. It is not uncommon for people to be able to distinguish their own syrup from anothers.

The color/flavor are due primarily to two things....Maillard Reactions and Caramelization. Whatever you do that affects the rate of those will affect the color/flavor.

Microbes convert some of the sucrose in sap into "invert" sugars (fructose and glucose). The invert sugars caramelize at lower temperatures and more quickly than does sucrose. Because you have more microbes late in the season, you get more invert sugar, and end up with darker and stronger tasting syrup.

The "flavor" of maple syrup is actually made up of over 130 different flavor compounds.....kind of amazing for something as simple as sugar water.

Surprisingly, even experienced producers/packers/researchers/etc. have a hard time distinguishing syrup grades when they can't SEE the color.

Tim Perkins
UVM PMRC

[tuckermtn]

Dr Perkins- thanks for the previous post- well explained- it provides a more technical, yet understandable answer to a question that I get in the sugarhouse probably a dozen times as year...

appreciate your input on here...

[Fred Henderson]

Where did the theory come from years ago that if you wanted to keep a pail of milk from spoiling that a silver coin was put into it? This theory did work.

[dano2840]

wow i only changed the sock filters on the tanks in the woods once a week and the sugar house head tank once a week oops:mrgreen: it didnt matter i maid great syrup, but we all know it was because its a wood fired evap that it tastes sooooooo great:lol: no oil fired bull

[Haynes Forest Products]

Just remember when your filling the sap shack full of steam and ash to put the fire out because you want to go to bed from a long day of shoving wood thru the door......................As said by Dr Perkins most people cant tell their syrup from the next one. I think there will be a few taste tests this year with the high and mighty wood chuckers.

[Fred Henderson]

Whme I started in this maple production 10 years ago I was at my dealer buying supplies and one thing he stressed was keep everything clean. My SH has lights running water H&C. I really don't know how we did it years ago with no running water.

[DrTimPerkins]

Where did the theory come from years ago that if you wanted to keep a pail of milk from spoiling that a silver coin was put into it? This theory did work.

Give it a week and taste that milk and tell me what you think? Silver may delay spoilage very slightly, but the inevitable will happen...the milk will spoil.

If this really worked well....refrigeration would not have been invented.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[KenWP]

Up here people also used to put formaldyhyde in the milk so that it didn't spoil and they didn't have to scald it either. The whole house used to have ulcers also they tell me. I wonder just how many old wives tales were just tales.

[Fred Henderson]

There is still an old sugar maker around here that use cream to clean in syrup.

[DrTimPerkins]

There is still an old sugar maker around here that use cream to clean in syrup.

Different thing. Cream was sometimes added to syrup to clarify it. Some impurities are fat soluble. Cream would added to syrup, the mixture brought to a boil, then the crud skimmed off the top. Other similar methods accomplished the same thing.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[Beweller]

If you haven't done so, check "Exploration of the Melagenome of Sap Microflora..." at

http://www.centreacer.qc.ca/propos/English/summary%20of%202008%20projects.pdf

[red maples]

But if you add cream to the syrup is it no longer considered pure?? I don't think it could be "Parve" ( if I am using that term correctly)

Good thread.

SO basically some of the bottom lines are
boil as soon as possible.
keep things covered to keep dust and foreign items out.
keep everything clean
try your best keep a constant fire with wood.
and change your filters everday.

One thing I was thinking about is, when your shutting down, the air is still heavy and more dense with the level of humidity and the added arroma of smoke. So, if you don't cover your pans while the sugar house and evap. are cooling down then have syrup and sap exposed in the pans may absorb some of the those aromas in your sugar house correct. Although it may be minute as you boil those "additives" are condensed.

One thing I feel is important is keeping your sap as cool as possible. there is such a thing called the "temperature danger zone". which is between 40F and 140F I think it reciently changed to 41F and 135F this is the best temperature for bacteria to grow. I know it is difficult with out proper equipment to regulate the temp. of your sap. I think I could go on and on here on the sanitation issue.

[KenWP]

The word Parve is a cojugant of parvenir which means to acheive or reach one goals. The word for pure is purer. One has to remember that cream in syrup would not be kosher either. Would be fine for most people but not everybody.

[red maples]

I don't mind the cream. hey if it works right! although I belive it would be a bit expensive.

[DrTimPerkins]

But if you add cream to the syrup is it no longer considered pure??

Cream, milk, bacon fat or other animal based oils, balsam brush, etc. are no longer considered acceptable defoamers in many cases due to off-flavors, allergen and kosher/halal concerns. Not to say that a few don't still use it here and there, but fortunately it is becoming far less common.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[ibby458]

I had an old sugarmaker ask me to reboil and filter some grade C he had kicking around for 8 years. Since I was borrowing his evaporator, it was kinda hard to say no. I filled the back pan and feed tank with water, and closed off the front pan. We put the syrup (and I use the term loosely) in the front pan and brought it to a low boil. He added a pint of cream, and it instantly boiled up in a big foamy mess. (Which didn't make sense until you consider the syrup was 7+ degrees above the boiling point of the water in the cream)

I dumped in a couple gallons of cold sap, and skimmed like crazy until all the scum and foam was gone. I chased it out with water after it reached syrup again, but I STILL couldn't filter it. My cones plugged instantly. Ended up settling it for a week, and draining off the crud. The buyer gave full price for it, but he sure made a funny face when he tasted it! (I did tell him how old it was and what we had done to it.) It had been in a sealed 15 gallon drum. I think it would have been better to just pour off the syrup, skim out any mold and sell it that way.