Bigsap Warning 2010

[Amber Gold]

20F last night at my house. Coldest it's been in a month. About time. Hopefully the trees recharge and they run good.

[danno]

20F last night at my house. Coldest it's been in a month. About time. Hopefully the trees recharge and they run good.

I'm hoping for the same. Monday night only down to 28 and only dipped below freezing for 2 or 3 hours - resulted in less than 1/2 gallon/tap yesterday. Last night down to 25 and below freezing for about 10 hours. Hope she runs hard today.

[PerryW]

holy crap!

Just took off 7 more gallons of fancy from yesterday's run and low of 15 last night and hitting 40 now.

Time to run & check the lines and hopfully BIGSAP.

[5poorsaps]

Good run today, not great, but good. Milford NH the sap came cloudy, but not soured. Hopefully with tonights cold night, tomorrow will run great and maybe we will catch our first all night run on Friday with the Low pressure coming into the state....stay tuned and be ready to boil boys!

[KenWP]

Froze way to hard here and the trees didn't wake up much. Still got a decent run but not what I expected. Maybe thursday now with a higher daytime temp forecast and then this weekend is forecast to not freeze again.

[PATheron]

Funny season this year here. Been real warm but things not running good. Not freezing at night now. Sap has been drizzlin in maybe couple thousand gallons a day. Thing of it is there is still snow on the ground and the ground is all stiff under it with ice. I kind of think even though its been real warm the trees really havent woke up yet. Theres been a lot of talk that we might have a really bad season but Im still optomistic. I think the next day or two with the warm weather night and day might be an ok thing to free the ground up. There is going to be some rain and its going to be cloudy then next week were going to have some freezes again so I think itll get going. Just very strange year. Good thing is dad and I are finding our groove and the equipment is working good. As soon as I get done in the shed mornings I go to the woods to work on leaks and now as of yesterday Ive got over 20 inches everywhere. I figure if its not running to good now at least Ill get the vac up so when it does run itll hopefully run good. Hope everyone is having a good season. One other thing, I dont think it would do diddly here without the vac becouse even though Im getting a couple thousand gallons a day or so if you pull a drop line anywhere in the woods the sap is not dripping. Thats why I think the ground must be still to stiff or something. Anyone else have a season like this where it gets real warm but the ground is still covered with snow and ice and it kind of worked like this? Theron

[killingworthmaple]

We are in CT there is no snow on the ground but tha trees are not running. days it should have run it just doesn't. It"s a little to warm now I think. We have done very poorly.

Nathan

[Russell Lampron]

Send some of that snow and cold up here Theron. The snow is just about gone in my woods and that is the moisture source for good runs. Your trees will wake up and run good because of the snow. Mine will run but not as good because the moisture source is gone. It has been a bad year for gravity here as well.

[steamvalleyFarms]

Theeron I believe your right about the ground still being pretty frozen under the snow. I am all on gravity and even with the pretty warm days this past week, I haven't been getting much sap at all compared to the past years when it would run. My normal 55 gallon drums that would easily be full in a day, are only averaging about half that. It is a weird year. Have talked to other small sugar makers at work, they are having the same problem.

[jacob obletz]

I am in northern wi, we had a lot of snow this winter almost no frost, so i thought it was going to come early this year, well the warm weather is here in fact it stopped freezing at night as soon as it got warm. i have about 800 taps on gravity and only have about 400 gallons of sap so far, it is still early for us up here but i thought with no frost under the snow the trees would let go as sonn as it warmed up?

[mapleman3]

BIGSAP WARNING has been Cancelled!! well here in My neck of the woods at least... freekin nothing!! no freeze for a while coming. trees pretty much shut down. may do yard work this weekend.. WHAT THE ?????

[danno]

PA - hoping your right. Today was my best sap day of the week and I thought it would be my worst as we've had freezing nights earlier in the week, but none for the last couple of nights. Snow really melted today and ground is flooded.

[PerryW]

Best run of the year so far. Picked up about 450 gallons and there's probably another 200 gallons there now in the tanks.

[sapman]

Decent run here, too. I'm still adding taps! Glad I got most in the swamp done on Wednesday, as Thursday the water went up a foot, so the bit we had to do got us soaked feet.

[PATheron]

Guys- I think I was right. It ran pretty good here yesterday too and no freeze the night before. I think the ground was too hard for the trees to run. I got 3000 gallons on 5000 taps which isnt really normal for me but it was still the best it has run yet. I think as long as there is frost in the ground that will kind of make up for the lack of freeze the night before maybe. I just looked at the forecast and there is a bunch of freeze nights now coming. Ive decided if you dont like the forecast today wait for tomarrow. Were not getting big runs but Ive got to say Im really enjoying the season. With the equipment I got this year it is so much easier. Dad pretty much just kicks me out of the sugarhouse while he's boiling so I go work in the woods. Ive got 23" now at the sugarhouse and 21 on the remote bushes and still fixing leaks. Ive probly still got hundreds of squirrell chews even now. I think we may get some sap as the frost comes out of the ground next couple days then itll freeze at night and we'll be off to the races. Whatever, all you can do is your best with what mother nature gives you. Im hoping to cap my seventh 55 gallon drum today, no big runs but thankfully with the vac we seem to keep making some syrup along. Thank goodness for vac down here this year. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Yes Theron the vacuum has been a season saver up here as well. The gravity guys aren't getting very much and my buckets aren't doing much either. The vacuum on the other hand is pulling in sap everyday. Had the best run of the season so far yesterday. No freeze in the forecast for the next 10 days. Now it's leave the vacuum pump on 24/7 until the sap flow stops and wait it out. Made 10 more gallons last night. Up to 78 for the season the sugar content is way down. It took almost 900 gallons of sap to make the 10 gallons of syrup last night.

[KenWP]

Yesterday almost wore me out carrying the stupid sap in from the bush and today looks even better. I will be boiling tonight I think and all day tomorrow and sunday hopefull and that will catch me up for the week. Love this weather so far. Forecast is for no frost for tonight and then some sat. and then non after that for a few days.

[Yellzee]

no sap here yesterday, not supposed to drop below zero for a week.. rain next couple days though may help in the long run.

[Jeff E]

Ontario sounds a lot like NW Wisconsin. Last freeze was a week ago, and none forcast in the next 7 days. We have lost a foot of snow in the last couple of days with rain and 45 deg F. The vac is pulling sap, about a quart per tap per day on average, so I am cooking a bit. Yesterday it ran a bit better, a half gallon per tap.
I agree with Theron, get the bugs worked out, get the system tight (no leaks) and get ready for a big run. We here in WI have the best part of the season ahead of us, so get ready boys!!!

BTW, 2%, making dark and grade B.

[ennismaple]

Wednesday was a big day and yesterday was OK. Between the 2 we got more than a gallon of sap per tap and I made almost 10% of our season's syrup yesterday - with half that much still sitting as concentrate in the camp! Weather looks bad until the middle of next week but since we're on the east shores of the lake we'll get a couple degrees colder at night that the forecast says. We need a foot of wet snow soon!

[Jeff E]

EnnisMaple, you loving that Force 5?

[KenWP]

Today was my big sap day. I have almost everything full till I boil starting tonight and hopefully catch up tomorrow night and then see what happens. Trees just poured sap today.

[Z/MAN]

Today was my big sap day. I have almost everything full till I boil starting tonight and hopefully catch up tomorrow night and then see what happens. Trees just poured sap today.

Ken, What is the verdict on those drop tubes you installed in your pan? Are they worth all the time it took you to install them? How hard do they boil?
Paul

[PATheron]

BIGSAP UPDATE FROM PIERCE AND SONS (MOSTLY DAD) MAPLE SYRUP- Kids have been loafing, playing video games and waiting for dad to get them some BIGSAP. Sap has been coming in but just kind of trickling becouse of the vac, no freeze at night. Looks like we may start getting some freezes to get things going. Even without the good run conditions we should cap the seventh 55 gallon drum today and thats good so all is well. Im the optimist no matter what and it usually works out for me. Spent all day in the woods yesterday fixing leaks. Getting real good results. Now Im at 24" at the releaser in the sugarhouse and 22.5 on the bushes across the road. Ive still got a lot of line to go too. Gonna just keep doing that today and tomarrow. The 400 tap bush I run the dairy pump on isnt doing anything, I think its becouse I have to shut it on and off, its a gas pump, and I dont think it runs the same on the off days like my main bush becouse when you shut it off it doesnt go back to running. I think to run without the freezes the vac has to stay on. Anyway got a good groove going. Dads crankin out syrup as fast as I can come up with sap. Think I may make some BIGSYRUP this week. All's well. Theron

[KenWP]

Ken, What is the verdict on those drop tubes you installed in your pan? Are they worth all the time it took you to install them? How hard do they boil?
Paul

Well lets see. I used to boil 3 gallons a hour if I worked hard on a little flat pan now I can easily beat 10 a hour off of the three pans the same size and I can now finish off syrup in the flat pan while still boiling sap in the other two pans and then it says warm while I dump and filter syrup rinse out the pan and continue boiling if I want to. So it was worth the bother. You should see the steam coming off of those pans when they get going and they heat up so fast it's not funny. Takes a couple minutes after the fires started to have them boiling and the flat pan over the fire is just warm.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

From the looks of things, there may be some $ 4 to $ 5 wholesale syrup in the near future if this weather keeps up as it looks to be trending up into Canada too.

[Russell Lampron]

One can only hope. The bulk prices are pretty low right now.

[802maple]

I wouldn't call them very low as they are at the second highest level in history at this time in the season. 3 years ago we would have been happy to get 2 dollars a lb for fancy and now C is getting 2.25. Just saying.

[802maple]

There is alot of sugaring left yet guys. Hang in there.

[sapman]

Thanks, Jerry, for chiming in here! I've been hoping for a voice with a lot of experience to comment on this season. I'm being optimistic myself. Plan to keep getting more taps online tomorrow.

I agree on the prices, too. When I was buying syrup a few years ago, I got scared when I had to pay $2 for fancy!

Tim

[Russell Lampron]

On the bulk prices I meant compared to what they were recently. I remember when commercial was $0.60 lb. Right now Bascom's is paying $2.00 for unfiltered mersh and $2.25 for filtered mersh.

For you guys throwing in the towel in the northeast don't give up so fast. I'm going to hang in there until April before any taps get pulled. Then they will only get pulled if I am sure that I won't be getting anymore sap.

[KenWP]

We are like 3 weeks ahead around here. Snows almost all gone and getting runs like we did last Easter right now. Today sucked because of the wind and the trees didn't run much even with frost last night.
I can see our season ending by the end of March also. Some of these guys here tap by the date not the weather and don't believe the rest of us have sap already like we do.

[sapman]

Russ, your trees are all reds, aren't they? Glad to know another soft mapler is sticking it out!

Tim

[3rdgen.maple]

Sapman I am probably 40 percent reds and I refuse to give up yet. Made mersh today and was not happy but I think if we hold out there is more in the near future.

[PATheron]

BIGSAP UPDATE- Worked all day in the woods yesterday. Dad made another drum of syrup and I just tried to keep my vac up. Had a heck of a windstorm with pouring rain. Took down the dead trees and probly pulled 10 to 15 drops off. Id work for a couple hours and come in and strip down and pretty mommy would have me dry clothes to put back on. I actually saw some of the trees come down and had the leaks fixed five minutes later. Had a lot of trouble with a new releaser across the road too. Float was hanging up and had to do a lot of work on that setup. Put rice in it to make it heavier finally and now its working good. When I went to bed I was just one line from 25" on the sugarhouse releaser. Very happy with that. Been on bubble patrol every day trying to find all the little leaks. Frost just went out of the ground yesterday so really everything Ive gotton so far is pretty much bonus. Without the vac Id have nothing. Good luck to everyone. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Tim all but about 50 or so of my taps on vacuum are reds. I am getting a lot of sap but the sugar is down so I'm not making much syrup. The buds haven't swelled much yet so I am in pretty good shape.

I have made 86 gallons of syrup from just over 6000 gallons of sap and this is the most syrup that I have made before 3/13. One year it was so cold that I didn't even tap until 3/13. I have sap in the buckets from yesterdays run that I will gather between showers today and pumped 400 gallons up from my trees on vacuum last night. The vacuum pump is on for long haul and I will go down in a little while to see how much came in overnight.

[802maple]

I have seen many a year like this and I would still usually tap a week later than the date today. This weather we are getting today will finally loosen up the trees to run when it gets cold again and it will. Maybe our southern friends will have a shortened season and I can't speak for them as I don't know their window of chance for making our wonderful product. But as Russ said the reds still look like they are in the middle of winter as they haven't even begun to bud out around here. If they aren't in trouble then the hard maples have a long time to go. I think later in the week I will put out my buckets and see if I am wrong. I haven't used them in years and I think I will revisit my youth. I will report on that later.

[Russell Lampron]

Still raining here and the sap is still running on one bucket and thew vacuum. Got 300 plus overnight on the vacuum and going to pump it up in a few. Pumped up 400 last night so I should be able to make 8 plus gallons of syrup tonight.

[PerryW]

Hardly a drip today from my gravity pipeline since there was no freeze. Some of the colder buckets have dripped and are 1/3 full, but looks like the weathermen are predicting freezes for monday, tues & wednesday night up here.

[tuckermaple]

nothing much here today either. hardly any snow on the ground, seems like it will be over soon here , but we will wait it out for a bit. See what the next week brings.

[sapman]

My 1600 taps ran about 1700gal. in the last two days. More than I expected! Not sure how the red maple buds are, but I saw quite a few in the water today after the wind lately. Hope that's not a bad sign.

I left the vacuum going yesterday at 5pm with about 6-7 gal. gas in the tank. I figured it would run out around 7 this morning. I arrived around 10:30, and it was still going! I took the cap off the tank to add gas, and the pump started to sputter and quit! Got the gas going, ran out and started it right back up. So it was off for about 1 minute. How's that for timing!! I was hoping and praying it would make it til I returned!

Tim

[vtsnowedin]

Not a drop of sap here for three days. First day no freeze next day too much wind and clouds and today rain without a freeze. It looks like half of the next ten day forecast will bring some runs. I hope so as sixteen gallons from 265 taps does'nt add up too good. I hotpacked three gallons of fancy into pints just to be doing something.

[PerryW]

I picked up 280 gallons of sap yesterday (saturday), but today (Sunday) is the first day in a while without much sap flow. A couple of the good buckets are probably 1/3 full, but only 50 gallons of sap in the tank today. I will pick up everything tomorrow afternoon and boil it up.

Happy to be sitting at 78 gallons, almost all Fancy.

[Russell Lampron]

With Saturday and yesterdays runs I collected, ROed and boiled 800 gallons of sap last night. Got a late start so my concentration was only in the lower teens but still made 11 gallons of syrup in 2.5 hours. I am at 97 gallons for the season now.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Rolled her over 600 gallons yesterday. Vacuum keeps them right on ticking, even if at a slowed rate. If season continues to anywhere near a normal ending date, there will be big time syrup out there. I'm with Jerry. we are going to have a cold snap and then one helluva run! One that will make Theron wonder if he ever really knew what BIG SAP! was.:lol: My Dad tells a story of how his folks rented out the farm one winter and went to California. They arrived back in Northern NY about April 10. It had been a warm spring and a lousy Sugar year and all the neighbors were pulled and washed up. Well my grandparents needed sugar so he tapped about 100 buckets. In 3 days he made 35 gallons of syrup, a much better output than any of the regularly tapped neighbors
Doug

[danno]

This week will be key - it we can make it through this week of sunshine and mid 50's without budding, I think we will be golden. Cold front is supposed to come through with a vengence next Sunday and set up a trough over the NE. Well below freezing temps at night next week looks solid.

Even if we do bud, as long as the taps don't dry out, alot of good commercial to be made:)

[Amber Gold]

No big runs this year. I don't think I've even hit 1 gpt in a day yet this season. Lots of continuous small runs because of the vac. pump...thank god for vac!

Not throwing in the towel yet and the vac. pump won't get shut off until the sap stops flowing. I need to make as much syrup as I can, even if it is MERSH. I have a lot of money to spend this year buying an RO and other misc. items.

[Russell Lampron]

Those reds won't bud out much with the 50 degree temps. You shouldn't have to worry about them until April.

[wildacres]

Cold Front? Not according to weather.com. There is nothing out to March 25th that looks cold (with the possible exception of tonight) - in fact the low on that day is currently predicted for 39. With the clearing skies last night, I had thought it might dip below 30, but the puddles weren't frozen at 5AM...

No, this year is going down as the season that wasn't for many of us. I could understand if I lived in southern Pennsylvania, but this is New Hampshire, for cryin' out loud - and I've had my taps in since Feb 20. It really frustrates the beegeezuz out of me. :mad: :mad:

Paul

[PerryW]

I got a small freeze up here in the Littleton area, but above-normal temps expected through the weekend.

[Dennis H.]

Hey what are you trying to sap about Southern PA!!!!:lol:

I had 2 good weeks of sugar'in the year!! Not including the 1 1/2 weeks in Jan that I made about 1/3 of my syrup for the year.

It is a bummer that this year has to turned out to be so short. I am just glad I have vac otherwise I wonder what I would have made.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Anybody know if Mansfield Pa has slipped off the face of the earth? Maybe extreme vacuum levels have caused some kind of inversion and are preventing communication????

[royalmaple]

I've been in constant radio contact with Mansfield and still up and running. Getting good runs and still filling barrels.

[802maple]

How about that Buxton, Me. guy, what was his name, Matt or something like that is he still sugaring, anybody heard?

[vtmaplemaker]

I have heard from him... Last I knew he was going pirate on us and still raping and pillaging all the maples he could find! Hopefully some day he will leave a map to all his loot!

[TF Maple]

I call it big sap when we get a run like we have here in WI right now. Yesterday got about a gallon per tap with gravity and today a gallon and a half in most buckets. I didn't think it would happen this year and I really wanted my cousin, (first year collecting sap) to find out what it was like when 1 seven gallon pail won't hold the sap from 5 or 6 trees. Sugar percent is dropping though like I expected, down to 3% and probably will be lower in a day or two.

[PATheron]

24" of vac, 4000 gallons of sap per 24 hour period, no freezes to slow down production, enjoying the 65 degree temps and changing out the socks on my prefilters on the R.O. every 15 minutes till I get the whole 4000 gallons through. My good sap looks like 2 percent milk and my bad sap looks like mountain do. Processing it fast enough to still make good tasting syrup. Gotta WANNNNNNNNNN ITTTTTTTTTT. Not stopping till nothing but fumes come into the releaser and may even boil them down to capture trace elements. Bigsap zar, Tarrian

[royalmaple]

Jerry-

When you gonna take a road trip down this way?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

How much syrup have you made this year so far as you have been slacking on the updates??

[Sugarmaster]

Brandon, Saw Theron today for 5 minutes, always in a hurry ya know. We haven"t seen or heard from him in weeks thought he got ate by a bear while searching for leaks in his tubing. He has just been sooooo busy trying to keep up. So maybe if he sees this he will get on here and catch everyone up on whats be going on at the Pierce and Sons Sugar House LOL!! :lol:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Brandon, Saw Theron today for 5 minutes, always in a hurry ya know. We haven"t seen or heard from him in weeks thought he got ate by a bear while searching for leaks in his tubing. He has just been sooooo busy trying to keep up. So maybe if he sees this he will get on here and catch everyone up on whats be going on at the Pierce and Sons Sugar House LOL!! :lol:

How's your season going as you are not very far from Theron?? Are you getting bit with the bad weather bug it seems most are getting??

[PATheron]

Brandon-As of tonight were between 1000 and 1100 gallons, and Im darn glad to have it. Been a tough season to make much syrup. My sugar is low, 1.5 normally and hardly any freezes. Im just trying to keep the vac as high as possable. I know Ive been slacking but I dont do good staying up at night. Im good out of the hole first thing in the morning but to get this sap processed I have to do it that night and it kills me. By 8 oclock Im ready to go to bed. Im a woods man. I can make sap I just hate processing it. Were doing good though and I dont have any complaints. My gravity neighbors are struggling to get anything at all. Im very thankfull for what the vac is giving me. Im going day by day and just trying to do the best job I can. Learned a ton this season and my equipment is working very well so Like I said Im having a great season but I dont have any ideas what my numbers will be. Ive had a week and a half with out even a freeze. Temps are like 65 degrees, its like making syrup in the summer time. I havent missed any tricks yet I dont think so Im happy. Theron

[Parker]

YOU HAVE TO WANNNNNNTTTT IIIITTT!!!!!!! THis has been a tough on weatherwise for sure,,,BUT YOUR MORE THAN EQUAL TO THE TASK,,,,"NEVER GIVE AN INCH" KEEP ON GIVING THEM HELL!!!!!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Things are looking good here in NNY. Rained all day yesterday and last night. Still raining now. Went and picked up more drums yesterday and put my mark on more if I need them. Pumps are off today and everything gets washed. Had one guy I buy sap from come in with 380 gallons last night from 350 taps on vacuum. He is now a true believer. Low tonight 28, forties tomorrow. Teens after that with a high Friday of 30. Then Big Sap Weather for sure. We are going now, moisture and cold:) Don't plan on sleeping after Friday for a while. Look out Theron, I'm on your tail and if you don't WAAAANNNTTTt it bad enough, I'm gonna pass your numbers, even with 500 less taps.
Doug

[gator330]

Doug,

Glad someone in New york is making syrup. It's been in the sixtys here all last week. Cooler and rain today but trees are making buds. Bad season for us!!!!! Went from two foot of snow to green grass over night.

[PerryW]

The rain pushed out about 60 gallons of sap, mostly from my buckets. Dumped about half of the sap (too yellow). Going down now to boil it up.

Awaiting the freeze here wednesday night. I will wash the tanks wednesday and be ready on thursday morning to dump the first sap pushed out of the lines and walk my lines to check for leaks. But don't wish too hard for cold weather or we may go into the deep freeze for 2 weeks.

We may still be making non-buddy syrup. The pond I use as a end-of-season sign is about thawed out so only a couple more warm days would most likely produce buddy sap.

I'm sitting at 89 gallons (75% crop) now and still hopeful that I can make near full crop.

EDIT: 11:45 All cleaned from a 30 minute boil, so make that total so far at 90.5 gallons. A gallon of barely Grade B color, but still good tasting.

[sapman]

Left the woods yesterday at 5 with maybe 300 gal. in the tank. Returned today at 3 and 1300 gal in there. Surprise! I knew it felt like great sap weather, but without a freeze I figured it wouldn't get going yet. That's still not quite 2/3 ga./tap, but better than it's been for awhile! Now if it'll clear up, I'll be happy. Never thought I'd be glad 1.5% sap, but it is an improvement.

[Russell Lampron]

Tim it's good to hear that you got some sap. That RO will take care of the 1.5% problem.

[PATheron]

Ok guys, Taps have been in since end of January, Had maybe two freezes in the last two weeks, been lots of days in the 60's. Vac has been on the whole time. Used regular new adapters. Great looking temps for the next week. They gonna run? Theeron

[PATheron]

Doug- You might beat me. How many gallons you at? Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
Right behind you. Think about 950. Gonna depend on how it runs the next few days. I have had the pumps off for about 36 hours and am off to start them again now. Probably run until Thursday night when it hits about 25. Supposed to bottom out in the low teens that night and a high Friday of 25. Then back to Sap weather. The race is on...Headed down the Home Stretch:lol:

[PATheron]

Doug- I think you might catch me but your going to have to WANNNNNNN IT!!!! Im going to take pride in trying to make the nastying tasting stuff anybodys ever tasted. Theeeron

[maplecrest]

well the things have been interesting here ropey sap sunday.got to clean flue pan every day MUD. froze here today for the first time in a month 28 degrees.hope this is the 1/2 way point. at 2600 gallons last nite. a low of 5 friday nite. should kick the trees in gear.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
If it is going to come down to making mersh, you're going to have to learn to keep it in the pan. Maybe we both need lessons from Matt on that one.
Doug

[can'twaitforabigrun]

One of the strangest years in memory. Looked favourable for tapping the first weekend of March, but didn't since around here most people tap around the 15th to the 18th. Some people did tap early and it did run good for a week or so and then stopped. We tapped on the 15th, had a good run the day after, and then our best runs have been last Sunday and Monday; the 21 and 22. If the forcast holds true we could be pulling our taps by next weekend. April 3-5. Inbetween now and then the forecast looks excellent to make lots of syrup!!

[KenWP]

I got asked today from a french speaking Quebecois if the season was over. I explined in Frankenglish that the fat lady hasn't even stood up yet around here. I don't think she believed me as she heard from another Quebecois that we were done for. These guys up here are wooses if you ask me.

[PATheron]

No Wooses at Pierce and Sons. Gonna fill drum number 21 tomarrow. Sugar wayyy down. Gotta R.O for quite while to make something sweet. Supposed to freeze tonight and hopefully itll run till mid next week. So far everything weve made has had real good taste, even now. Syrup very dark though. Thank goodness for a vac pump and an R.O. Ill bet gravity I wouldnt have made over a couple hundred gallons. Going to see how long I can get sap this year. Not turning the pump off till no sap comes out or I cant get it through the pans or were into NEXT YEARS SEASON. Theeron

[ennismaple]

Ther-NoSleepUntilMay-on: You'd better hope you make a lot of mersh because if the weather cooperates we could catch you! Last night got to 3 below, tonight's supposed to got to 13 below and not even get above freezing until Saturday. Could be a HUUUUGGGGE weekend.

[Jeff E]

Just catching up here-In Wisconsin we are having similar issues. The first 3 weeks of the season were warm, very little freezing. That pattern has changed in the last 5 days, so we are getting some sap now.

Vac saved the day for me, as I have been making syrup right along. 19 last night and not really getting above freezing today, 14 tonight. Then 55 tomorrow. Let it run!
We typically go into the 2nd or 3rd week of April, but the soft maple buds are busting out already. Could cause a quick end during the next warm up.

Working on Drum #9. Low sugar, mostly DA being made.

[PATheron]

Jeff and Marty- GO, GO, GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told my wife last night to pick me up 500$ worth of butter this week at the grocery store. Boilin till theres more butter in the barrell than syrup. Save em butterin their pancakes. Theee( gonna make mersh so nasty its a whole new grade nobody's ever even heard of before)rooooon

[Jeff E]

PAthdude, the dairy state thanks you for the support!!
I wonder if you mixed in bisquick instead of DE you could just dump the mersh on the griddle and have an 'all in one' mix!?:rolleyes:

[KenWP]

I am in the big sap catergory now also . Had a reasonable wensday and today was right up there so almost everything is full again. It probbably wont' flow tomorrow but will have lots of ice to gather as it's still warm here right now.

[can'twaitforabigrun]

I agree with Ennis Maple, this weekend especially the latter part of the weekend around here the sap should be running like crazy. Everyone better get caught up and get ready for the biggest runs of the season.

[220 maple]

PATheron,
Butter works but we found whipping cream worked better for us. We filled our old deformer bottles and boiled and sprayed. Mersh On.

Mark 220 Maple

[PATheron]

Ok guys- Just came off a 48 hour freeze up. First real honest freeze in a month. Taps been in since January. Pumps been on since January. Gonna find out this afternoon if theres any life left in the holes. Hopefully itll run HARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD!!!!!!!! Thee(want to make some BIGSYRUP BAD) roon

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Tried the pump for an hour yesterday afternoon. Froze about solid. No vacuum to some areas because of ice. Got about 2 dumps on the releaser in the hour and the temps were already going down. It was about 10 degrees an hour ago. Isn't supposed to break freezing point until noon. Hope for some little sap this PM and then tomorrow the real thing. Early in the week looks good but by the end of the week temps are supposed to be in the 60's and lows in the mid 40's. Anything after that will just be bonus. Looks like we will warm up as fast as Theron.
Doug

[PATheron]

Doug- Were going to be nip and tuck. Are you going to be able to overtake me? I think Im on barrell 22. Bearing down on 1200. Theee( is kind of nice making syrup in the summertime) roon

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

It will probably depend on this run. Weather doesn't look quite as good as it did a day or so ago but we are supposed to get a bit of rain and snow tomorrow night so that should help. I will be over 1100 today. I can probably beat you on Barrel numbers but some of mine are 30's and 40's. My dealer has assured me I can get more 30's if I need the space, hope I do:) Wood pile looks like it can make another 900 or so...Here's hoping the godess smiles and I run out.
Doug

[PATheron]

Doug- Were within 50 gallons of each other with probly the same weather. Now its going to come down to who can keep it in the pans. Probly be you. Theron

[PATheron]

Gettin to where a guys got to earn it down here now. Just put through a couple thousand of gallons of cottage cheese through the R.O's. Have socks that go over the filters and had to stand there and change them every 10 minutes or so becouse of the slime. Once I get it through once then itll recirc and its a lot cleaner and itll quit sliming them up. Terreble numbers on the machines though. Probly doing irreperable damage to the membranes. I think there just about sick and tired of my bullcrap but a barrell is a barrell. What you gonna do. Might not be able to make syrup into August like I had hoped. Taps have done me right though running from January till April with two freezes. Seems like they could of done a little better for me but I guess I wont complain to much. Boil in the morning and hope the sap clears up a little next couple days. Going to be 70 by the end of the week. Thatll seem nice. These freezes really slow down production, frozen pipes, sap quits running at night. What a pain. Hope everyones doing good. Could MAYBE be winding down here at Pierce and Sons. Hopefully not. Theron

[Parker]

WHINDING DOWN??????WHAT KIND OF TALK IS THAT??? STRAIGHTEN UP AND FLY RIGHT (slap-slap) THE GODESS WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN YOUR DONE!!!

[maplecrest]

theron, are you using a settling tank. if you put the in comming sap in a tank and let it settle and pump off the top and and dump the rest down the drain. will save you alot of time and agravation. i started using my settling tank yesterday. i had a valve welded 4 inches above the bottom drain. to emty that tank. dump bottom down drain not worth dealing with. less chance of ropey consentrate

[802maple]

Thats a great idea Maplecrest. I needed to learn something today and you were the teacher

[PATheron]

Jeff- That makes good since. The way mine works is the plumbing all hooks to the bottom of my semi trailer. Maybe I can rig something up. Thanks Theron

[802maple]

You should be able to put a pipe in from the top. It would be a little tricky to get started but after you do it should work fine.

[PATheron]

Jerry- I was going to do that but found I could put a two inch fernco in the bottom hole with an elbow and it seems to tighten up real good. Im going to try that. Jeff- AWESOME IDEA!!! Ok guys, Im taking bets see whos right. Since Ive been running these ring pumps once season started Ive never seen it over 32 degrees and not have sap running. Last year when I quit in April I was still getting a gallon per tap across the road when I turned the pump off. Thursday and Friday its going to be 75 and sunny here. No more freezes from this point on. Will it run with it 75 degrees? Whens she going to stop? Drilled the holes mid January. New plastic adapters, no check valves. Theron

[PATheron]

Just trucked in another 800 gallons. Looks like were going to have a full 3000 gallon compartment plus some for Dad to try Jeffs new trick in the morning. No quit in these trees. Looks pretty red though when I look across the hill. Just got to thinking about it and I think Im averaging around 400 gallons a freeze this year. Thats not bad, Just think If I had 4 or 5 freezes in three months, be right in the chips. Im going longer than you PARKER, YOU BETTER GET YOUR BIGBOY PANTS ON IF YOUR BOILING LONGER THAN I AM BROTHER!! 75 DEGREES HERE WE COME, ITS GOING TO RUN HARRRRRRRRRRDDD!!!!!!!! Thee( no half gallon man but can do a quart in the summer, got to count for something)rooon

[markcasper]

What do you do when the neighbor is looking at his grain drill and the sap line, electric line crosses the field he wants to get at?? 1350 gallons, 2.2%, 280 CV new drops, 19" vac. from Friday to Sunday??

70's here by Tuesday and am really just beginning to get BIGSAP!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Had to use Parker's sleep fast technique last night. Summer is just around the corner and I have to figure out how to get the hay equipment ready while boiling! Still making decent dark amber and won't have to resort to Jeff's settling tank for another day or so. Might get one more freeze tonight. Headed out to pump sap and tend the RO. Keep plugging Theron, You still might beat me.
Doug

[PATheron]

Guys- I put an add in the trader to maybe trade my 3 by 10 for a 4 by 12 oil and I got a private message back that I havent opened. Its from someone that goes by mayermk@earthlink.net. That doesnt sound like a maple trader name. Should I click on it and see the personal message or is it some computer crashing deal? What do you computer guys think? Theron

[caseyssugarshack93]

sounds like a regular email theron i havent hurd of any scammers with earthlink internet but i dont know

[PATheron]

Casey- So you think I dare click on it. It says I have a personal message just like normal when I get one but it says its from that instead of a trader name. Theron

[PATheron]

Still getting sap here at Pierce and sons. Good news, looks like its going to be around 75 thursday and my taps seem to do best when theres no freezes to slow them down so hoping for a big run. Plus be nice sugaring with all that warm weather. Working up another 3000 gallons of sap tonight. Made somewhere near 100 gallons today but had to WANNNNN IT!!!!! Only slept 3 hours last night and 5 the one before so a little tired but still making product thats the main thing. Still havent made any off flavor I dont think. Im making every drop I can. Hoping the price might be good this year. Theron

[KenWP]

Email the person back and if he responds hes legit.

[PATheron]

Ken- I clicked on it and it was Ok. Thanks Theron

[802maple]

Theron, you have got to squeeze it tighter, my neighbor made 220 gallons in 6 hours 2 nights ago and 100 gallons in 3 hours last night on his 3x12. He is still making border line fancy with a great flavor, he says if it isn't 24 percent then it isn't worth boiling. LOL

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

802- How long of a life span is there on the membranes concentrating to 24%? I took mine to 17% or so this year recirculating sap. The permeate sure gets slower and slower as the sap gets sweeter. Should I do an acid wah more often? With recirculating sap, does it pay to have the membranes profesionally cleaned each year?

[maple connection]

802- How long of a life span is there on the membranes concentrating to 24%? I took mine to 17% or so this year recirculating sap. The permeate sure gets slower and slower as the sap gets sweeter. Should I do an acid wah more often? With recirculating sap, does it pay to have the membranes profesionally cleaned each year?
Just rinse your membrane with more water. Min 400 gal for 8" membrane. then wash the membrane as long as you can. Start with cold water and let it wash until you reach 120 degrees. Cold water lets you wash longer.
An Acid rinse will help if you have alot of mineral build up. It is a good Idea to do a acid rinse if your production won't rebound after a wash. Remember it is very important to use a ph meter. When you do a acid wash you should be at 2.1 ph. As the water temp starts to rise on the acid wash cycle the ph should go down ( or be more acidic) this means your membrane is cleaning up. If the ph goes up you need to add more acid to stay at 2.1 until the minerals are released. DO NOT go over 120 degrees. Acid washes should only have to be done about twice a year. If your membrane still is not at full production you need to us a sanitizer wash. This will kill the bateria that is growing. Do these three steps at the end of the year and put the membranes in a membrane storage solution in the storage canister and in the basement they go until next year. Hope this helps. THe higher the brix's the more mebrane pressure is needed to acheive equal flow. The life of the membrane might drop a very little. Just don't over pressure the membrane and you will be fine.
Kevin

[802maple]

Those membranes are still going strong at 9 years old. The key is as what was said above. Quite a few people think I wash and rinse excessivly, but the proof is in the pudding as those membranes are beat up every year and they have all come back from the cleaning at Lapierre every year at over 100% flow rate. They have not gone back for a cleaning every year, I think they have missed 3 years in that amount of time. We rinse with a warm rinse after the first 4 hours whether they appear to need it or not for 15 minutes and then followed by about 15 minutes of cold rinse. They are usually done concentrating after the second 4 hours and then we wash followed by 4500 gallon rinse for 6 membranes.

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

What is the best type of ph meter? Should I leave the acid wash solution soak for 24 hours after the acid wash like the book says? Also, I really figured the 1000 gph machine would be plenty big enough for my setup. Should have 10000 next year. Had 6500 this year and it wasn't a great crop. The 1000 gph machine had to really run steady to recirc the sap into high concentrate. If I would have had a great season, the ro wouldn't have been able to keep up. Do most operations use way oversize RO's when they recirc sap and stay with small evaporator? Also, how much do you typically loose in terms of GPH when the concentrate get say 20%? will the machine loose 25% capacity? Also what should I use as a sanitizer wash? My RO came with acid, soap and preservitive. What pressure do you guys typically run the RO at when it gets to 20%. Sorry for so many questions, but you guys always offer so much great info. Thanks for the input.

[802maple]

I actually use ph test strips and not the meter.
If your membrane is that bad that you have to use a acid wash than yes you should wait 24 hours.
Personally I have never used a acid wash on the membranes that I used.
It is getting more popular to use a small evaporator with a large RO.
You usually lose up to 20 percent or so total volume as it gets real sweet. less water to be taken out.
I always just use the soap that Lapierre sells.
We are usually running 400-450 when it is at 24 %
This is what I do, it certainly doesn't mean that everyone does this.

[PATheron]

BIGSAP OVER AT PIERCE AND SONS!!!! 80 degrees took me down. Im a looser. Couldnt go the distance with you guys, must not be made of the right stuff. So happy to turn the vac off last night had to go out and celebrate. I think my pump must have celebrated to probly. Had to work steady since January it was probly sick of it too. Looks like we made a little under 1400 gallons. Got a couple partial barrells so its hard to tell exactly but theyre pretty full might be 1400. Hope everyone had fun. Actually looking foreward to straightening things up. Gonna finetune my lines this year that I have and hopefully we can do an even better job next year. My dads a heck of a man for a geeser, he boiled darn near all of it. Bet he lost ten pounds. Good for him, builds character. Tarrian

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Well, I tried my best but that PA perseverance paid off. I only got 1368. Total Taps 3735 on vacvrooom and 1565 on buckets. 5300 total. Tad over a quart per tap. Buckets were real losers this year...only about a pint per tap, up toward a third of a gallon on vacuum. If Ma Nature pulls a fast one, I'm back in it next week. Theron, you're a better man than me.
Doug

[maplecrest]

had to stop could not make syrup any more wanted to make jelly instead

[802maple]

Theron, I redid my numbers and my math has failed me, I am not quite there yet. I am just under a quart per tap. I am headed out to squeeze every drop I can out of those trees, I need another pint of syrup to get there which comes down to about another 6 to 8 gallons of sap. I am going to put my air conditioner on high tonight by the 2 best trees so I won't be embarrassed.

[Brian Ryther]

Well done guys. Time for a well deserved break. Then back to the woods to get ready for next year.

[vtsnowedin]

I have to put one in here for Therons dad. He stood there and boiled every gallon the obsessed and more then a bit crazy Theron brought to the sugar house. Who among us would like to take his place next spring? I have never met him but I like him.

[waysidemaple]

vtsnowedin

I second that. Lucky to have a dad like that!!

[802maple]

I have met him and he is a special guy, I am just trying to figure where he went wrong with Theron.

[PATheron]

Doug- I might not even have you beat. I have 24 full 55s and then two with maybe a little over half. So 25 full ones for sure plus some. I think thats 1375. We made the same syrup only thing is you made yours with a lot less vac taps. You kind of beat me really. I dont know how you do that much with that 600 g R.O. and those bushes spread out. I bet nobody wants to come out to your place and try to outwork you. Brian- You did a heck of a job too. Weve got to keep in mind this was a dang tough season. I dont think that half gallon thing works under the conditions we had this year. Jeff- That settling tank was probly the biggest help we had all season. My dad and I cant thank you enough. Jerry- You might pull the best averages of anyone this season. Theron

[ennismaple]

You defintely got me this year Theron - we finished up just over 1000 USG, which is not bad considering we started pulling taps less than 4 weeks after they went in! Next year we start tapping in February.

[Brian Ryther]

Where you Theron? Big freeze in central NY tonight.. I still have 1000 taps in. The RO has been put to bed but the rest of the operation is still ready to go. 35 more gallons would put me a 700.

[Maplewalnut]

Based on the barrage of tanks and pumps Theron has for sale in the classifieds, he has probably got his eye on another 5000 tap bush for next year and needs money to string more tube. Probably backing in another milk tanker as we speak.

[PATheron]

Guys- I have enough tube to put another bush in and Im not going to do it. I might even have less taps than last year becouse Im going to take more cull trees out. Now Im going for averages. This year Im working on my existing lines all year. Going to make BIG SYRUP NEXT YEAR BABY!! No leaks, short lats, big vac and BIG SYRUP. Anybody want to compete for averages next year you better have your bigboy pants on becouse your going down and your probly going to go down hard. I dont even care about the weather anymore. I think I like making syurp in the summertime better anyway. Theee(all done fooling around, gonna get serious now)roooon

[802maple]

Bring it on little buddy, bring it on
I already have a new game plan up my sleeve for next year

Jee(old school sugarmaker from the past) rrrrryy

[PATheron]

Jerry- Im really sorry Im going to have to this to you but your going to have to go down. I know your smart, experianced and you have the power of the bucket on your side but its still going to have to happen. Wheeler is running 20000 taps on the same exact pump I struggled to run my 4600 on and probly will hit a half gallon with the same condiions I had. That means I just lost 30,000$. Thats not going to happen twice. Theee(Wheeler would be better off with an extra pair of nine inch lineman pliars in his back pocket than have me around helping out)rooon.

[vtmaplemaker]

Theee(i'm going to buy at the house of tang)rrrooonnnn,
you need to quite fooling around with that little evap that takes all fo dads time, and get a big boy using oil in there... pput all that extra time boiling into tubing work, and all the wood cutting time into adding tubing work!

[PATheron]

I know, your right. Im just sick of spending so much money. My wife is threatening to cut my gueebles off. Theeron

[802maple]

All you need is more RO and convert yours to oil. As I have told you RO is the key. I know a sugarmaker with 7000 taps and a 3x8 and another with 8700 taps and a 3X12. The 3X12 guy made over 200 gallons some nights this year.

And I have some top secret stuff next year that will bury your little tubing setup

Jeeee(the mad scientist from the mountains) rrrrrrrry

[KenWP]

I think a sort of but not yet Quebecois has to get in this also. I just have to figure out how to find trees that give sap every day.

[vtmaplemaker]

Thee(i don't wanna loose the goods)rrroooonnn,
Don't worry about what the woman of the house says... after the last few years you know its just small talk, after all, your still at it!!! Spend like a drunken sailor, don't sweat it you know you will make it all back!!!

Ken, I will trade trees for new tubing! I have 10,000 taps worth I could spare here..

And(I love eating chinese)y

[PATheron]

Jerry- Im sure thats what well probly do. I hate the idea of pulling it out of there anyway. If I get to a spot where money is no object we will change it out with something real efficient and fast and well change the ro out too. Need to be able to single pass it right to 15 or 18 percent and then boil it as quick as its putting it out and well be getting somewhere. That costs a lot though so for now we do as we do. Ive got a good setup now other than my membranes slowing down every season. This next year Im focusing on that, acid washes or whatever I need to do to keep them perfect, and higher vac and neither one of those things costs much. I just need to keep learning to do a better job. When I started out the season I was getting rid of 900 gallons of water an hour. You can really get somewhere fast at that rate. I just have to learn how to keep it that good. Theron

[802maple]

Just wash,wash,wash. Remember the guy that takes the time to sharpen his chainsaw before it gets dull will have a bigger wood pile at the end of the day then the one that waits for the chainsaw to get dull before he sharpens it.

[farmall h]

Remember the guy that takes the time to sharpen his chainsaw before it gets dull will have a bigger wood pile at the end of the day then the one that waits for the chainsaw to get dull before he sharpens it.

Confucius also say: "He who does not hit dirt with chain does not have to sharpen chain as often."

[PATheron]

Jerry- I cleaned those ro's this year to the hilt. Im sure you would have been happy with what we did. They still declined in performance terreble though. I bought a ph meter other day Im hoping maybe that will help me some. Every day I used the ro's I washed them together to build heat with the cdl and ran the temp to 43 c. Then I rinsed the cdl with 800 gallons and the seprotech with 1500. Seems like that ought to be a good fix but still the decline. The sap was real bad though with it being so hot, Im sure that didnt help. Theron

[PATheron]

BIG LEAVES!!!!! BIG LEAVES!!!! Just kind of picking up here at Pierce and Sons. Pulling taps, cleaning the sugarshed etc. Looking over my woods while I work. Looking like I may loose quite a few taps this year. I want to cut quite a few more of the cull trees out of my young stand. Real happy how those trees are looking. Also I want to eliminate some of the smaller double trees and make them singles. Got lots of ideas to improve my lines and I think I can make way more sap even though Im going to have a few less taps. Hope everyone is having fun. Theron

[Jeff E]

Woods management is huge. Taking a stand of young trees and getting them set to be 3.5%+ trees beats the H#** out of twice as many 2% trees.
Its the original RO effect!

Doing similar work in Wisc, cleaning up, watching what the market is doing, working deals with the bucket bregade for next year, etc....

I cant wait until Spring '11

[PATheron]

BIGSAPP!!!!! BIGSAPP!!! Just kidding just keeping myself in shape for next season. Still cleaning up here. Got some goals for this year. Would like to try to find a used oil rig to trade for, gonna get a better handle on maintaining my membranes and want to cut some trees out of a section of woods and upgrade the lines there. Lots to do. Hard to know where to start. Gonna try to beat Jerrys bucket averages this year if I can. Want to get my vac higher if nothing else. Got to start taking this stuff serious. Hope everyones having a good time. Whats everyone elses goals for the season? Any big plans? Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think everyone on here would be happy with a normal weather year for the 2011 season, that would be the best thing we could all hope for.

[ennismaple]

Ther-Ilivesleepandeatmaple-on: You'd better buckle down and take things more serious because you've really been slacking the last few years! Then again, when you're dogging it you still go harder than most of us at full steam!

[PATheron]

Marty- Appreciate the compliment but Im the norm, all sugarmakers are hard workers. How did you guys make out with the new evap? Theron

[PATheron]

BIGSAP!!!! BIGSAP!!!!!! Its getting close to season, better get to work. Busy here at Pierce and Sons. Been taking some time off recuping from season. Just finished pulling taps yesterday. Jugging some syrup now. Got some more odds and ends to do then should be cought up. Looks like the next job I have to do is completely renovate the inside of my sugarshack. Sold my evap to some serious up and coming sugarmakers and looks like Im going to have a new one for next year. New to me anyway. Went with the next size bigger and got a 6 by 16. Hoping for shorter boils. Only thing is shack is kind of small but we'll grease it up and get it in there. Then Ive got to get to work tweeking my lines. Gotta get things tighter. My lines are basically an embarrassment to sugar makers everywhere and I need to get them better. Hope everyone is having fun. Want to have a big season next year. Got to try to get my act together and get some big work done. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

6x16 or are you late with April fools joke or had too much to drink?? Sounds like you are trying to catch up with the Pattersons!!! LOL!

[PATheron]

Brandon- Im really serious. No April fools joke and I havent had a drop today. I havent got it home or anything but its a thunderbolt oil fired with a piggy back. It looks like a fairly serious rig. If it dont beat my 3 by 10 Im going to be bummed. I told you guys I hate staying up late. Theron

[Maplewalnut]

6X16 oil fired with piggy back????...No holds barred...I'll be able to see the steam from here. Better notify FAA, that might ground more planes then that little volcano.

[maplecrest]

you will only boil for a couple hours each day.be waiting on the r/o,s

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

I figured you were serious, but had to poke ya a little. 6x16 with a piggyback, what is that going to do, about 600 gph?? I am thinking what everyone else is that you are shooting for 10k taps next year now! LOL!

[PATheron]

Brandon- Garth Atherton said 650 gph I think. Nothing ever does the rating though and I talked to the guy that had it and it didnt sound like it was doing that much. Im going to get it home and clean it up real good and have it kind of dialed in by a professional and whatever it does itll be plenty for me. NO NEW TAPS THIS SEASON!! Next year depending on money Im going to try to put in at least 3000 more. I really dont have the money this year so Im just going to try to make mine totally perfect and see how good I can do. Thats right up my ally anyway. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Come on Theron "No New Taps"!! Yeah Right!!:D Wheres the "You got to Want it!"

I think we all heard that the past few years.:rolleyes:

[PATheron]

Dennis- I just cant buddy, Ive got to revamp that whole shed and fix up all my lines. A lot of my stuff was put in on the fast and I really need to get it better. Plus I dont want to wake up and find my kids all grown up either. Ill keep plugging at it. Next year after season itll be the right time and Ill put a big bush in and I will be able to afford it. Your going to have fun too with your new rig. Now your going to have a real evaperator. Ill have to come down and check things out. Theron

[tuckermtn]

BIGSAP!!!! BIGSAP!!!!!! Its getting close to season, better get to work. Busy here at Pierce and Sons. Been taking some time off recuping from season. Just finished pulling taps yesterday. . Theron

Glad I'm not the only one- I finished pulling the last of my taps this morning- course I only have 625 taps vs. your 4000...

[Russell Lampron]

I thought that I was a little behind schedule. I still have vinegar and water in my evaporator pans. I had my taps all pulled and tubing washed the first weekend in April. Finally got my Harley out yesterday too.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
Take the sides off your sugar house and jack it up. Build a new one for this beast and use the old one for a cupola:D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dennis- I just cant buddy, Ive got to revamp that whole shed and fix up all my lines. A lot of my stuff was put in on the fast and I really need to get it better. Plus I dont want to wake up and find my kids all grown up either. Ill keep plugging at it. Next year after season itll be the right time and Ill put a big bush in and I will be able to afford it. Your going to have fun too with your new rig. Now your going to have a real evaperator. Ill have to come down and check things out. Theron

Theron,

You are correct there. Before you know it, the kids will be gone and it will be just you and the wife. Enjoy them every day, one of these days you may get burnt out on syrup and won't be any kids around to do things with.

[Sugarmaker]

WOW!


Had to write some more so it would post, but couldn't think of another word to describe BIG"T"!

Chris

[heus]

I thought that I was a little behind schedule. I still have vinegar and water in my evaporator pans. I had my taps all pulled and tubing washed the first weekend in April. Finally got my Harley out yesterday too.

Russ,
I have only had my Electra Glide out twice so far this spring. All of my free time has been spent in the woods or in the shack. What do you ride?

[Russell Lampron]

Hues,

I have a 2006 Electra Glide Ultra Classic. I should be out riding it today but the garden needs to be planted.

[PATheron]

Guys- Working on a little of everything down here in BIGSAP country. Got the taps all pulled, got a bunch of syrup jugged for the neighbors, and working on the shed. Have to totally revamp it to fit my new evaperator in it. Think its going to turn out good though. Im opening the whole thing up inside and will have to move my R.O. machines to a side wall. Should turn out pretty good. Looking foreward to having all that work done then I can get back in the woods where I belong. Want to get my lines totally perfect this year and try to pull some really big numbers. Im thinking I should be pretty close to the 5000 number on my vac and Im helping my neighbor tube up his woods. Were hoping there will be 500 to a 1000 on high vac up there that will come here and he also said he may run a thousand buckets and bring that up. I told him to bring up any amount of sap and Ill buy it. Shouldnt be a big problem with the new rig. I ran the numbers the other night and I think I can R.O for two hours and boil for the next two while its R.Oing and I should have 6000 gallons gone. Thats more like the numbers Im looking for. I want to get one more R.O. down the line and then I think Ill be pretty well set. Next year after season were putting in another 3000 and then well be starting to get somewhere. Slow and steady wins the race and I dont want to expand untill Im getting the absolute max from each tap. Fun to see what everyone is doing for next year on the trader. Theron

[Amber Gold]

When are you going to find the time to tap all those trees? Sounds like you're starting to get serious about it.

Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and more efficient to run a single 1200 or 1800 gph RO vs 2 or 3 600's?

[PATheron]

Ill get them tapped. After having the two R.O's Ive found that I like having more than one. Ill always have at least two. When you get the larger R.O's lots of times theres high pressure vessels added but the addition of the high pressure pumps doesnt really match up to the number of vessels. Ill probly add a second vessel to my newer cdl machine and keep the seprotech. I really like that machine for the money. I only have 7 thousand in it an Ill tell you what last year I was dumping out 600 gallons of water an hour with that thing untill the performance started to decline later in the season and the sap got real nasty. Thats big bang for the buck. To do those numbers with my new cdl machine Ill have 20 thousand in that. Thats a pretty big difference. I wish I could buy that three post R.O in the classifieds right now but I dont have the money. You need a lot of R.O becouse they dont always perform like youd like them to especially near the end of the season. Even the big guys lots of times run two units. Wheeler is running two R.Os with several vessels on each one. You start getting into pretty big money territory with that big a unit. Garth quoted me 70,000$ for Im thinking a six vessel unit. Makes that used seprotech look pretty good for right now. Theron

[sapman]

More than one machine is definitely great in case one breaks down. Wouldn't be easy, but at least doable.
Theron, have you heard about the new Airablo machine Leader is marketing? Extra membrane with it's own pressure pump, working in series with an existing RO. It sounds pretty sweet to me, but is still quite a chunk of change! I need to get the 600 I have back up to speed before next season.
Tim

[PATheron]

Tim- I hadnt heard of that. Whats wrong with the R.O. you have? Theron

[sapman]

I'm only getting like 450gph through it on startup, slowing to 300-325 after a couple hours sometimes. That's total, not just permeate. Permeate benchmarks only get to 420. Guess I need to send it for cleaning and see if it is the membrane, or if the pump is compromised.

[PATheron]

Tim - Was it performing good last year when you started? If it did your just at the same point most everyone else is by the end of the year. Just send it in and have it professionally cleaned and it will be perfect. Thats one problem Im going to try to resolve this year too. Im going to try to get as perfect a proceedure to keep my membranes performing good all season as possable. Theron

[sapman]

Theron, I don't think it has performed like it should for at least the past couple seasons. Yeah, I definitely better send it in. To be honest, I just learned that the benchmark is only looking at permeat side, not adding both sides together. Therefore I really can't tell where I stood previous seasons. The prior owner gave me no records, but CDL cleaned it and it was 92 or 97% the last time they did it. I agree, gotta get more efficient for next season. I used a LOT of electricity recirculating because of poor flow rates.

Tim

[PATheron]

BIGSAP RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER!!!!! ALMOST SEASON!!!!! Been working steady down here in BIGSAP country. Been finetuning some of my older woods and working in the sugarhouse. Got the new evaperator in the shed as of today. Looks kind of like a Clidesdale horse in a dog coop. It did turn out nice but wow what a unit. Really looking foreward to season this year. Sounds like everyone is getting lots of work done. Theron:)

[Dennis H.]

Holy Cow Theron is still alive and still living in up state PA!!:D

I thought he moved so he could work at the 7-11 where Elvis and Micheal Jackson now work!!:o

Good to hear that you could shoe horn that new rig into the sugarhouse, one of these days I need to make a trip up north to see this new baby.

[PATheron]

Sounds good Dennis- Ive got to get down and check on your operation too. Anything happening with the two spots you were eyeing up down the road? Theron

[Dennis H.]

Those 2 spots di not work out. The best one of the 2 I just can't get ahold of the guy or he won't reply back to me. I finally got him to return my call and we talked for about 10 mins he sounded like he was all for it and he asked me to fax him a letter describing what I wanted to do and he would get back with me, well that has been now 3 months! I am not holding out hope there. The stand of trees that I did tap just up the road, the guys grandson built his house there, I still probably could get in there but not sure to what extent.
Then there was the stand that I got permission to tap this past year and right at the start of the season he put it up for sale! It never sold but re has once again up for sale. I was trying everything to buy it my self but the guy is really unrealist about it. He is asking $250,000 for 25 acres!!!!:o And when I gave him my offer and told him that this is what the bank was willing to lend for for that piece of ground he actually said to me that I needed to go to another bank! Wow!
I haven't made any hardship with him yet so I am maybe hoping to still be able to tap those trees this coming season if he hasn't sold it.

I am working on lineing up a few roadside trees to add to what I have here on vac.

I just never thought that it would be this difficult to get people to allow me to tap maples on their land!

[ennismaple]

BIGSAP RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER!!!!! ALMOST SEASON!!!!! Been working steady down here in BIGSAP country. Been finetuning some of my older woods and working in the sugarhouse. Got the new evaperator in the shed as of today. Looks kind of like a Clidesdale horse in a dog coop. It did turn out nice but wow what a unit. Really looking foreward to season this year. Sounds like everyone is getting lots of work done. Theron:)

I was wondering how long it would take you to get fired back up again! Glad to hear you're continuing to improve things.

Lapierre sent a technician to tweak our Force 5 last week. I can't wait to see how it performs next spring! I continue to be very impressed by their customer service.

My brother and I plan to hit the bush this weekend to get started on our "To Do" list. We've got a lot of improvements planned and many have to get done before the snow flies because we can't get to certain areas of the bush with a vehicle in winter.

I found a good way to handle our hot water condensate from the steam hood. I bought a 55 gallon rain barrel and will put it up on a platform beside the evaporator. It comes with a drain on the bottom that will take a garden hose and will be great for washing misc things or filling a wash bucket. It also has an overflow drain that will help keep me from cursing as hot water floods the back of the sugar camp! It should help make life easier around the camp.

Sales have been strong recently and hopefully we can move the rest of the barrels out of the basement by Christmas! I hope everyone else is getting towards the end of their stock too.

[PATheron]

Dennis- Maybe you will have to run your pump up to your dads. Might not be too bad if you dont have a ton of sap to haul. Still a pain though. When you go to work are you overlooking anything along the way like big roadsides somewhere something like that. Other thing is it only takes a 300$ honda engine and you can put that pump anywhere. Marty- What are you hoping to get out of the force five once you get it all dialed in? Ive been working real steady down here most of the summer. Im hoping the shed will be more or less ready to rock and roll in a couple of weeks then I can go back to the woods and stay there. Having fun getting everything all tuned up. I wish I had time to put more taps out but Ive opted to just keep getting my stuff better and better. With my buddys taps we should have a little over 6000 taps coming to my shed and that is enough to make a lot of syrup if we do a good job. Cant wait. Dennis- Other thing Ive thought of that could work for you when you drive to town is there a place like a park or somewhere you could put a bunch of buckets on big trees that might do pretty good just gravity some days right along the road? Theron

[Dennis H.]

Heck yeah I been looking. There is quite a few spots along the way from work that I have been keeping my eye on. My buddy that lives about 4 miles away just bought some land and he has quite a few maples that he is going to allow me tap. I just need to stop over and walk it. Along the road they are norway's but as you go up into the woods there are more red's. I just got to be careful, he is a big hunter and I don't want to cause any problems with tubing.

I am leanin toward the stand of sugar's up at my dad's cabin. I just am not sure if I want to pump them on vac or just set it up for vac but let it run gravity for now. I picked up a nice surge alamo this spring at an auction I think it would be a nice pump up there. I just need make up an oil reclaimer for it.

[PATheron]

Dennis-Maybe if nothing else you could tap the sugars gravity up there being its a ways a way and you get what you get and try to find something closer for the pump. I know down here Ive often thought that if I lived in town Id try to get a bunch of trees in town to put buckets on becouse there are huge ones all over you can drive right up to. Only thing is how do you get permission from all those people. Be tough but it would be a blast if you could do that. Just drive around and empty buckets right along the road. Wonder what the Norways do. I see them in town down here too. Must be trees that were planted becouse they look nice in the yards. Theron

[Dennis H.]

On the way home from work this AM I took a quick look at my buddy's property and I might have a winner there. There is a few maples right at a cell tower gate that is on his property, very steep real good for gravity. Nice big pull off area from the main road.
Later this week we are going to walk his property next to his driveway and see what maybe there. That area would be nice for a vac pump. It also is fairy steep so good either way.
At some point I would like to tap the sugar's at dad's I know it would make his day. He has mentioned to me that he would even run up to empty the tank every other day or whenever he is free to do it. We'll see about that.

I would like to try and steer clear of buckets if I can, but I will if I have to. If I can end up with about 200 I will be happy.

[TF Maple]

Wonder what the Norways do. I see them in town down here too. Must be trees that were planted becouse they look nice in the yards. Theron

I did one Norway last year in my parent's backyard, it produced about the same as the silver maple next to it. We tapped it late as a demonstration tree for the third grade class that came to learn about maple syrup.

I will be doing a couple more in my cousin's backyard next year.

[ennismaple]

Theron - We're expecting 240 USGPH from the Force 5 next season. We were never able to push it past 190 USGPH last year for a variety of reasons but the modifications Lapierre made should bring that rate up to the point where we have trouble keeping up with the RO.

[PATheron]

Marty- Will you guys probly start the ro a little ahead if thats the case and run the concentrate open flow and pump some water out before you boil and then single pass it to what ever rate matches the evaperator? You might have to becouse if I tried to single pass my 600 at 250 gph I think Id probly only be around 4% Seems like If I went around 120 gph I could do 8% like it was made to do. You might have to get another post someday. TF- Thats neat about the Norways, theres a bunch in town and I always wondered what they would do. You could have a heck of a sugaring operation in some of these towns if you could hang buckets. Big trees all over. Theron

[PATheron]

Guys- Im going to tell you guys something thats going to make you feel really smart and good about yourselves. Guess what I just discovered about my evaperator as I was putting it together in the shed today. Take a guess. What tiny little thing could a guy miss in his close inspection of his new 6 by 16 evaperator? Theron

[chipa]

I give up.what did you find?Should we cringe?

[PATheron]

No, Its not bad its just funny. No guesses? Theron

[Randy Brutkoski]

It doesnt fit in your shed does it? You might as well sell it and get your little guy back.

[Randy Brutkoski]

Or does it talk to you when nobody else is around.

[Parker]

Marvin talks to me,,,your rig dosent talk to you? I bet that you dont have any of the connections to put the pans together...and I have a hard time believing that you have enough head room for a steamaway.....plus the stack is gonna take one heck of a hole out of your roof....

[PATheron]

Parr( gonna make so much syrup this year going to bankrupt all of quebec with a flooded market)ker- None of that stuff, got it all in and put together, looks beautifull, piggyback is on it, just got to hook up the floats and stuff which I have for it and its ready to go. I just missed one little thing when I looked it over. Ready? Its a 6 by 14 not a 6 by 16. Easy thing to overlook I guess. I thought sure they said it was a 6 by 16 and I looked at it and it looked a lot bigger than the 3 by 10 so I never paid much attention. Never would have noticed but I was over to the owners last night and he was explaining everything to me on how to hook it up and run it and stuff and I said something about it being a 6 by 16 and he said no it was a 6 by 14. I could have sworn when I bought it the dealer said it was a 16 but I probly heard him wrong or he misspoke or something. I just thought it was funny. Whats my new numbers per hour now. Its a 6 by 14 with a piggyback. Two syrup pans and a ten foot flue pan and a ten foot piggyback, thunderbolt. Seems like a guy would pick up on something like that. Almost died getting it in the sugarhouse, think I would have noticed somewhere along the way. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Ok we all need to pitch in some money here and get Theron a tape measure!! :lol:

[Randy Brutkoski]

I wouldnt know about the evaporator talking to me, because i am getting mine in october. Well thats if Lappiere gets it done by then. This will be my first year boiling. I have been selling my sap for 15 years. Its going to be a big hurdel for me but everything will probably be fine after my first nervous breakdown. 2000 feet of high tension wire and 2000 feet of 1 1/2 dryline done today. My arms feel like they are going to fall off. I am glad i had help today.

[PATheron]

Randy- Whats the evap and how many taps are you going to be running? Inch and half is big stuff. Theron

[Randy Brutkoski]

Theron, I have just about 6000 taps maybe a little less. All on high vac. I have a 4x14 hurricane force 5 coming. Along with a lappiere 1200 Turbo coming as well. And all of the other things, 10 inch filter press, water jacket canner, and other misc. stuff. It is going to be a little overwealming at first but everything will click when i get the 1st season under my belt.

[PATheron]

Randy- Good for you. That should be a good combination. Are you going to just single pass it to the evap or are you Thinking about recircing some water out first? Might have to with that much sap depending on your time? Theron

[Randy Brutkoski]

Yes i do plan on recirculating, I want to try to run 18 or 20 percent. Time will tell. Will definatly have to for the 2012 season because i am adding alot of taps next year. I will be a big hitter some day.

[maplecrest]

well now you have more room in boiling room

[ennismaple]

I wouldnt know about the evaporator talking to me, because i am getting mine in october. Well thats if Lappiere gets it done by then.

They've been good with delivery dates. The factory is probably booked solid making Force 5's until next spring so they can't fall behind! They actually delivered ours before we were told to expect it. I hope you enjoy your new machine!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

Did you ever figure out what kind of gph you are going to run with that monster?? I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 550 gph.

[PATheron]

Brandon- Im hoping its somewhere around 500. I think its going to depend a little on how good I can get the piggyback tweeked. The previous owner told me that with 8% he was getting 30 some gallons of syrup per hour and with 12 % 40 or 50. That seems kind of light to me but he said he never did much tweeking with the piggyback so I guess Ill just have to wait and see. Whatever it is itll be quicker boiling than the 3 by 10. Gotta get the BIGSAP in the barrell. You did see where I posted I was wrong on the size and its a 6 by 14? Theron

[Thad Blaisdell]

Theron, those numbers dont add up..... at 8% making 30 gallons per hour.... if my math is right of course.... 8% would be roughly 10 gallons of sap to make a gallon and that would make you at a little over 300 gallons evaporation per hour.... you will be higher than that.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Yeah, I saw where you had error in size. When you get to something that big, little easier to make that mistake vs a small one. I may have been over optomistic. I would think you can evaporator 300+ gph, hopefully with the piggy back, it will get you 60% or better, so that should get you around where you need to be. I would think you could do some tweaking with the burners to get them to burn correctly too. 30 gallon of syrup per hour with 8% is only evaporating off less than 300 gph since the 30 gallon that comes out doesn't count as evaporation. I would think you could get it to a lot better than that. Maybe get Jerry down there to get it hopping, don't know how much of an oil man he is.

[Parker]

On a good night with the right wood I can bump 300 gph with Marvin,,,(perfect conditions- been as low as 190 gph) with oil and everything FINETUNED you will be doing better than that!

[PATheron]

Thad and Brandon- I know what you mean about the numbers not adding up. Im not sure what the think. Jerry says it should do 450 per hour. At 8% your getting a gallon every 10 gallons so that would be 45 gallons per hour. If it does that Im super happy. I think Jerry is pretty good with all that stuff. Im booking an appointment with him now. I know I dont know didly about them so Im hoping he can get it really cranking. I guess well have to wait and see. Theron

[Thad Blaisdell]

I pulled 45 gph with mine and that was running it 1.5 inches deep. I know when I lowered that number things got quicker... I just wasnt ready to push it at all..... Theron what kind of pans do you have.... and how do they connect to each other?

[PATheron]

Thad- I would think that this thing should do at least as good as yours. If your getting 45 thats good news for me. The pans are raised flue 6 by 10 flue pan and two cross flow syrup pans. Then you have the piggyback on top of that. Im thinking maybe my buddy that had it before me may have not been getting optimum performance out of the piggy back and that might make a pretty good difference. That arch is supposed to be pretty high performance. I think it will do a lot if its running right. If it does anythere around 40 gallons per hour with me single passing the ro's Im in heaven. Reallistically I have a pretty small operation for that much evaperator but thats fine becouse if I can boil fast thats great and if Im at it for a long time then Im making a lot of syrup and thats fine. Theron

[vtmaplemaker]

Terrion, the previous owner of my 5x14 thunderbolt was making 55 gal per hour with 10%.. alls that has is a pre heater, you should be able to add 5 or more on that... Let me know if you do not have enough sap, I will sell yuo tanker fulls at a premium...

[PATheron]

Maplemaker- We'll have to wait and see I guess. Im going to fire it up pretty soon with water and see what happens. Ill probly have to buy some sap off you. Trucking is going to be bad. Im not tapping in January this year. Im just going to keep on hooking trees up till we hit february and whatever we have is what we have. Cant wait. Thee(fixin leaks and stringin tube)roon

[Thad Blaisdell]

Cheapest way to get the sap there may be the railroad..... may take a few days. Better use a refridgerated tanker. You may decide to boil every other day. I boiled every 36 hours. The kicker is it takes 1 hour to get started, and 1-1.5 hours for cleanup and that is regardless of how much syrup you make.
Another thing you may not have considered is how you are going to filter all of this high quality sticky treat.

[PATheron]

Bigsap update from Pierce and Sons down here in Tropical Pa. Still working in the woods most every day. Getting some good progress done on my lines. Im thinking should be easily ready by February. I think the new taps Im putting in should be ready too other than it might not be all wet dried for this season but we'll do the best we can as time allows. Once it gets dark evenings Ive been working on the sugarhouse and I think that is coming along pretty well too. Come up with a couple good improvements as of late that should help us during season. Found a deal on a trailer for my truck so I should be able to haul my sap about 3 times as fast this year which will cut down on the collecting time a lot. Also looks like Ive found a second high pressure vessel for my newer cdl machine. That will give me two two post R.O's to work with or roughly 1800 gallons of R.O'ing capacity the way it looks to me. That is going to be really nice becouse Ill be able to darn near match my new evaperator and wont have to wait forever for my sap to be ready and also be able to start R.O'ing a bit later in the day when pipes are less apt to be froze up. Trying to make a lot of improvements to make the season go easier and give me a lot more time to work in the woods getting me more sap. Sounds like everyone else is getting lots of prep work done too which is good becouse season will be here before we know it. Thad- I have a double bank seven inch filter press I got last year to filter with and that should work good for me. Usually I filter and run the R.O's and everything else while my dad draws syrup off and it works real good for us. You get fast at changing the papers too so its not to bad. Have a happy, Theron

[PATheron]

BIGSAP!!!! BIGSAP!!!! THIS IS A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY BIGSAP SYSTEM!! THIS IS ONLY A TEST. HAD IT BEEN THE REAL THING INFORMATION WOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED PERTAINING TO WEATHER CONDITIONS ON A REGIONAL BASIS AND PROJECTED SAP FLOWS IN YOUR LOCAL AREA. STAY TUNED FOR ANY NEW INFORMATION AS SOON AS IT IS RECIEVED INTO THE BIGSAP HEADQUARTERS. ITS HALFWAY THOUGH OCTOBER 2010. THERE COULD BE BIGSAP COMING WITHIN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS. HAVE YOUR ACT TOGETHER AND DONT MISS ANY SAP. 2011 IS THE MOTHER YEAR. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

THERE COULD BE BIGSAP COMING WITHIN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS. HAVE YOUR ACT TOGETHER AND DONT MISS ANY SAP. 2011 IS THE MOTHER YEAR. Theron[/QUOTE]

BIGSAP Czar isn't it time to start a "2011 BIGSAP WARNING" thread?