Sap Flow Meter

[Snow Hill Farm]

Does anyone know where to get some kind of flow meter that I could install in/on my 1" copper line that feeds the evaporator? I always have to estimate the number of gallons I boiled and I think I get a fairly accurate reading by using the sugar content, rule of 86 and the syrup produced. It would be really nice to look at some kind of meter or gauge that tells it exactly....

[Ewetopia]

there are several meter makers out there. are you looking for mechanical or digital? do you want to be able to reset it at the end of a boil? there are many affordable mechanical meters out there on the web

[danno]

You'll find similar threads if your search back. Based upon a recommendation I received here, the guys at the town gave me one they had hanging around. It's 1" threaded female on either side and measures in cubic feet. Conversion to gallons is easy enough. You may want to check your town garage and see if you can pick up a freebe.

[Brent]

Edited by Brent to remove incorrect info. See comments below by Dr. Tim Perkins

[Haynes Forest Products]

Most meters need to have a constant feed of liquid under pressure and the Key is NO AIR in the stream.

I have the same problem I fill my head tank and start the evap and then refill during the boil and as its filling its empting so I dont have a good idea thruout the day so I just go by syrup made.

[Brent]

Another interesting way to look at it.

If Proctor doesn't think there are any accurate reliable units out there, and some guys use them and claim they are accurate, makes you wonder how they figure they're accurate. If they know they're not getting stalled with drebris or air locks, they must have another system to verify with, which means they don't really need them anyway.

As above, I just go by sryup finished ( and Gator tanks hauled in, if I remember to mark the chalkboard.)

[nymapleguy607]

Just be careful plumbing that in from the feed to the evaporator. It could be a close call if somthing stopped the flow. Just somthing to consider
Jeff

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a 320 gallon Lappierre SS round bottom tank and I have a 1" water meter I bought off of one of the members here a few years ago. It is quite heavy and I have it in the pump line going from the 625 gallon milk tank to the head tank which is the Lappierre tank. It has a quick coupler on each end of the water meter and one side is a male and the other side is a female. This way, if it would somehow freeze up or lock up, in 5 seconds, I am back in business. I have a 1" oil free submersible pump that pumps up to the head tank and at the end of each boil, I write down the ending gallons on the meter. At the end of the day, I know exactly how many gallons I have boiled and divide that by total boiling time to get accurate gph also.

The meter I have is old, very heavy, but seems extremely accurate. It is vertical and up to the head tank and drains itself back down what little sap is above it.

[Z/MAN]

Check this link out:

www.mcmaster.com/#8051k18/=46f2pi

[OneLegJohn]

They make accurate meters. I use them for work on a regular basis. The key is to put them near the discharge of a pump. Interestingly enough, the ones I use have a 4-20ma signal that can be use to control electrical devices based on desired throughput.some of the controllers can turn equipment on/off based on sensors. Temp,throughput, pH and conductivity are great ways to monitor sap or vacuum cooling water. One less thing to worry about.

[3rdgen.maple]

I believe you need the pressure from a pump to get an accurate reading. The ones I have seen have the same type of setup internally as the ones that tell you how fast your boat is going which when compared to gps speed are very inacurate. So like already said putting them inline with the gathering tank to the holding tank will work. But so will some measurements with a ruler and then sticking a yard stick in your tank and knowing how many gallons there is in an inch. We have a chart written down and a quick dip with the yardstick I know how many gallons I have or how many I have boiled. Yardstick was free at county fair.

[Dave Lister]

I'm going with home built this year. I have never had an accurate guess as to my gph, or how much sap I boil because as I boil, more sap is filling the tank constantly.
Right now what feeds my evaporator is a ss warming tank that holds about 6 or 7 gallons. I use a sump pump from my storage tank into the warming tank when that runs low.
What my plans are for this year is to add a clear plastic hose to the bottom of a 5 gallon pail, directly above my warming tank. The hose will go towards the warming tank with a valve on it. As I run low in the warming tank, I can fill the bucket to exactly 5 gallons, and then dump it into the warming tank.
Not sure if this will be ideal or be a pain in the rear, but I figure it might work.

[danno]

I have mine between the gravity tank and my evaporator. Only freeze up problem I have ever had is at start up - when the entire line and preheater may have some frozen sap.

I use mine to determine total sap boiled in an evening, but more so, to guage my gallons per hour boiled. If mine is not spot on accurate, it's pretty close. I average 75-90 gph in my 3x10. I certainly would like to believe that it reads low, so I'm, actually boiling 100-125 gph, but I doubt that.

[Snow Hill Farm]

Thanks for the info. Danno, is your meter digital or not? Easy to reset?

[DrTimPerkins]

If Proctor doesn't think there are any accurate reliable units out there, and some guys use them and claim they are accurate, makes you wonder how they figure they're accurate.

Just to be clear...the statement I made about flow meters in another thread was in reference to measuring sap flow from tubing lines (mainlines or lateral lines). They are inaccurate in these areas due to a) lack of dynamic range (one meter can't measure both weeping flows and peak flows) and b) air and solids in the line.

Flow meters can work for measuring sap, concentrate, or even syrup if the fluid is filtered, the meter installation is done correctly (no bends near meter, line filled with fluid, etc.), and the correct flow meter is used for the application.

Tim Perkins
UVM PMRC

[Snow Hill Farm]

Tim, Thanks for the input! When you mention the correct flow meter do you have any thoughts on what is correct for a 1" copper line? This line goes from my 300 gallon feed tank to my pre-heater.

[DrTimPerkins]

... do you have any thoughts on what is correct for a 1" copper line? This line goes from my 300 gallon feed tank to my pre-heater.

Line size is one variable. The other important variable is the amount of sap that will pass through the line per unit of time (gallons per hr, gallons per minute), which is essentially a function of your evaporator system.

Often for these applications, a simple water meter used in municipal home water metering will work. That is the cheapest approach, and you can frequently find used models. Just be sure it was used for water and not something else (oil, diesel). You also need to plumb it in so it has a couple of feet of straight pipe before and after the meter for best results. You also want it so it can be drained after each boil, and rinsed with water in order to avoid sugar clogging up the impeller and reducing or stopping sap flow to your evaporator -- a really bad thing should it happen.

Tim P.

[Snow Hill Farm]

Maybe the more appropriate placement would be in my 1" pvc pump line from the 1000 gal tank to the 300 gal tank. That pump line would be much easier to take apart to clean than the 1" copper supply line to the evaporator!

[DrTimPerkins]

Maybe the more appropriate placement would be in my 1" pvc pump line from the 1000 gal tank to the 300 gal tank. That pump line would be much easier to take apart to clean than the 1" copper supply line to the evaporator!

That would get you much the same results, but with a lot less chance for catastrophic results.

TP

[brookledge]

I agree put the meter in after the pump to your 300 gal tank.
When your regulator opens you want the least amount of restictions possible. Plus as Dr. Perkins said meters aren't good at recording trace amounts. So if your float in the evaporator was only allowing the incomming sap to drip or trickle the chances are that sap will not be counted and after 10 hrs of boiling it will add up
Keith

[danno]

Thanks for the info. Danno, is your meter digital or not? Easy to reset?

My meter is a water meter used by our town on all homes. It's digital but there is no re-set. I just keep a log next to the meter to record stats.

[Snow Hill Farm]

Thanks for all the info, I have a call in to my local water department!