Some bad news for us....

[MainelyMaple]

I returned from vacation in the allagash last week to find that the guy who is letting us use his sugarbush has put the property up for sale, without warning. we have no say in this as he never did sign the lease i faxed to him (which he was all up for signing). we met with him this past spring and we discussed a plan to get this sugarbush going again. we were planning on 500 taps this year and adding 500 a year till the woods were tapped out. foolishly we got ready this summer before the lease was signed because there was lots of work to do. we improved the road and bridge up to the sugarhouse, thinned out the woods to improve the health of the bush, purchased equipment such as storage tanks 4x14 evaporator and vacuum pump.
Although it is completely our fault as we did this before the guy actually signed the lease, and i guess we were just young and dumb because he had us believe without any doubt that the lease would be signed. to top it off we never got a call or any kind of warning from him and he knew all along we were getting the place ready.
sorry just had to vent its too bad its all about money these days for these crooked business men who are only looking out for #1. guess we will have to move on.....

[Maplewalnut]

Maybe he will still sign it? I'd present your case to him with all the capital you purchased and take it from there. Of course you may have to go threw the same song and dance with a new owner but you never know!

[C.Wilcox]

That really does suck. He certainly didn't act in good faith about it. Could you pursue legal action to recover your time spent in the woods and the upgrades to the road? Sounds like you had a pretty strong verbal agreement and maybe that's enough? Hopefully the new owners will be interested in having you tap it and then all your efforts won't have been wasted.

[cncaboose]

Don't overlook the best option, if you can swing it financially. Buy the bush. Then you don't have to worry about any of the above problems. The land will always be worth more, they aren't making any more last I heard. Instead of paying rent, you'll pay taxes. Maybe there's some non-maple timber or firewood you could sell which would offset the purchase price. Consider leasing hunting rights if you have enough acres to generate extra cash flow. Then again, if he's asking ridiculous money, it won't sell in the current economy at all and you have time to get him to sign the lease. One other thing if the asking price is too high, get a professional appraiser to appraise the property. That may cost you $300-400, and be worth every cent. If the appraisal value is more in line with reality, make a purchase offer. We did that with our sugarbush in '06 and instead of the $80000+ asking price we wound up paying the $27500 appraisal price and are happier than a pig in maples, or something like that. One other thing if you try to purchase. Be very patient, these things take time. Just my 2 cents.

[marc]

I think I would really look into trying to buy the land. After looking at your photobucket album it would be a shame to loose it. If the property gets sold there is chance it will be with someone who will continue the sugaring tradition. Good luck and sorry but it could become a new opportunity.

[The Birdman]

I want to know about the train. Does it run through the sugar bush?

[MainelyMaple]

The problem is he will not sign a lease now, he claims the $1.00 a tap (which is outrageous) we agreed on will never be enough to cover his taxes. basically if we have 500 taps or 2500 taps he wants $4000 to cover his taxes. this was never an issue this spring when we spoke with him. suddenly it is and just the fact that he never called us up and told us it was on the market shows what kind of person he is. i never spoke with him until i saw the for sale sign and called him up myself.

buying the land is not an option for us at this time as he is asking a quarter milion for this peice. and although it is highly unlikely that it will sell anytime soon i cant justify paying $1000 in tubing and taking the time to set it up when a big developer could come by and purchase the piece in a month. thats the other thing, the way aubrun is i find it unlikely that someone will purchase the land and sit on it and pay $4000 in taxes and let us sugar it. more then likely it will become yet another housing developemnet.

the train is no longer there, it was there when the sugarhouse was built in the mid '50's and was used to bring people up the quarter mile hill into the woods to the sugarhouse

[tuckermtn]

what is the total acreage, possible tap count, frontage, asking price, etc...

[MainelyMaple]

total acreage is 62.33
potential tap count 2500
road frontage +/- 200'
asking price $250,000

[tuckermtn]

works out to around $4,000 per acre- not outrageous, but high if your talking just timberland. a logger is not likely interested in buying that b/c the valuable sugar maples have holes in them !

with only 200 ft of frontage, a developer would need to put in a new road to build it out- not impossible, but expensive. If I were a developer in this economy I would be looking for the cheapest, easiest lot to develop first.

I could see a single house going in with someone wanting some privacy- is there a building site out front and the sugarbush out back?

Are there any wealthy abutters that might be interested in protecting their privacy and still letting you sugar there?

just my $.02 worth- hope it works out...

[KenWP]

I am wondering about the taxs. They sound high which means it's not classed as farm land anymore. I wonder if tapping the trees can revert it back to farm land which would lower the taxs.

[Homestead Maple]

Don't overlook the best option, if you can swing it financially. Buy the bush. Then you don't have to worry about any of the above problems. The land will always be worth more, they aren't making any more last I heard. Instead of paying rent, you'll pay taxes. Maybe there's some non-maple timber or firewood you could sell which would offset the purchase price. Consider leasing hunting rights if you have enough acres to generate extra cash flow. Then again, if he's asking ridiculous money, it won't sell in the current economy at all and you have time to get him to sign the lease. One other thing if the asking price is too high, get a professional appraiser to appraise the property. That may cost you $300-400, and be worth every cent. If the appraisal value is more in line with reality, make a purchase offer. We did that with our sugarbush in '06 and instead of the $80000+ asking price we wound up paying the $27500 appraisal price and are happier than a pig in maples, or something like that. One other thing if you try to purchase. Be very patient, these things take time. Just my 2 cents.
Your 2 cents has some good thoughts. I would go to the Auburn town/city office and find out what they have the property assessed for and what the taxes are a year on this. This is public info and would help you in making a reasonable offer for the land. The local assessors description of the property may reveal some issues with the property that might not make the property worth while to a developer. Ask to see the tax card for the property and even get a copy of it in case you want to make an offer to the owner and you could point out any issues to him with the property as far as being develop able. Also your idea of cutting the marketable timber on the piece could go a long way towards mortgage payments. Do some more checking on the property. Don't lose heart yet.

[Haynes Forest Products]

When People like him treat others that way you will find that he is already in trouble. Look up the property at the county office and Ill bet you will be making the offer to the bank that is about to reposes the property. Or better yet go down to the realetors office and put in a low low bid with a stipulation that you get the deposit back if he doesnt take the deal he will know how you feel and if the bank is involved they will know your name. GOOD LUCK

[3rdgen.maple]

Mainly Maple I remember you talking about this piece of land awhile back. If I recall isn't the sugarhouse on his property as well? I have seen some dumb things in my life and some of it is guys paying 16,000 dollars an acre for land that borders me just to put a fishing camp on, that they visit a dozen times a year. Me I would be ticked off as well. But I would refrain from creating a bad situation worse by making the guy mad. You could get him mad and he does not have to accept a purchase offer if you make one. I would check all avenues including another lot maybe adjacent to this one and go from there. If it does not work out then get the big dogs out and get mean. Not that I recomend this but there has been a peice of land down the road for sale for many years and the people next door to it make it pretty obvious that they are , well not nice and nobody will buy it. $4000 for 62 acres sounds a little far fetched as well. Get to your public records and I hope you kept records/receipts of the money you have spent and your time there has to be some kinda of recourse to get it back. A trip to a lawyer might be a good idea. Good luck.

[Revi]

I wouldn't get nasty. You can take all your stuff and start an operation with roadside trees, working with other landowners, etc.

I would look around for another piece to buy. Make an offer on the sugarbush and see if you can get financing, etc.

The landowner will come back to you if you make an offer.

We looked for years, and finally found one 3 miles from our houses.

Offer him a hundred and think of it as an investment.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Just curious,,, what was your relationship to your neighbor prior to this.

And 2500 possible taps on that much land doesn't seem like a very high count. Are they all in one area?

[TapME]

Just curious,,, what was your relationship to your neighbor prior to this.

And 2500 possible taps on that much land doesn't seem like a very high count. Are they all in one area?

Thad; It is a nice piece of land and the maples on it are thick for here, It's almost impossible to find that many so close to a large population area.

Scott, sorry to here about this happening to you. I know that you have put in a lot of work in the bush as well as the sugarhouse. I would wait a couple of weeks and call and ask if you can have a one year contract to tap and just do that. You and I both know Scott that nothing is selling in the area that has any price attached to it. The farm exemption status could be a way for the landowner to lower his taxes.
I forget who said it is a bit much for land at 4000 and acre, but assessments are high here and land is also. Auburn taxes are among the highest in the state after the revaluation just 3 years ago. Many saw increases as high as one hundred percent.

[gmcooper]

Scott,
Sorry to read this thread. The land owner had been a bit difficult with a few previous attemps to lease the land. The land has been in that family for many years. I thought it was much more acreage than listed. With most of it being high ground it will have more appeal to a developer than wet ground.
Might be worth it to check with city zoning to see what is allowed in that area. Auburn may be requireing water and sewer for new developments which would make that property very unlikely for a development. At $100,000 there would be a bit more speculation interest in it. Even with tap holes in trees it may not deter some wood cutters especially just for firewood and a few saw logs.
Mark

[Fred Henderson]

Just remember what goes around comes around. The guy has got one coming to him and it will happen sooner or later. You don't go thru life treating people the way he has you and not have it catch up with you.

[brookledge]

I realize there is alot cost associated with set up and annual operations but with 2500 taps that will generate a fair amount of revenue. At $1.00 per tap, that is high for rental (my opinion) but if you have already purchased the majority of the equipment like the 4X14 and vac. pump and tanks.
So look at the revenue. 2500 taps X.4 gal per tap= 1,000 gal of syrup
I feel with good vacuum setup you should be able to get .4 gal/tap
So that 1,000 gal of syrup is 11,000lbs @$2.75=$30,250
And that is not retailing any.
It may be worth your time to go and talk to Farm Credit or some other agricultural lender and see if they would consider the value of the crop as collateral.
With only 200 feet of frontage it means that it can only be a subdivision and that would cost alot for a road to be developed. So if it had alot more frontage it would be worth more money.
Keep your fingers crossed and you may have to wait it outa little to get the owner to realize it is not worth that much and then you might be able to offer less.
Good luck
Keith

[3rdgen.maple]

Just a though but did this guy offer for you to buy it in the past? Maybe he is trying to get your pants in a knot and knows that you have spent alot of money and time and is expecting you to make him an offer.

[mitchmaple]

hey mainlymaple, look for the silverlining in your cloud. we tried to lease your sugarbush years ago from brett. all went fine and i cleared the road in and cleaned up the camp and sugarhouse. we were goiung to use the tanks in the saphouse and collect and truck the sap home. two mos. later, was the jan. ice storm 1998. the sugarbush is easterly facing right into that storm and it took out the tops of all your trees. i haven't been back since but i can't beleive they have come back in twelve years. your trees have a shorter life than you might want. also, the two acres on the road and the 60 acres of woodlot are connected by a short but small right of way( the rail bed). not enough for a road to a development. certainly not worth $250,000. of my money. you might get a chance to tap there for a long time, or you might just cut your losses before you get in to deep and find a better sugarbush. best of luck.