Tying mainline to wire

[abbott]

So far this week i've run 5000' of new mainline and wire, but haven't hooked anything up yet. Should i wire tie the tubing to the wire and then pull them both tight with side-pulls, or should i get my wire tight and then tie my mainline to it?

Feel free to direct me to any old threads where this has been discussed.

Steve

[Randy Brutkoski]

I always hang and tighten my high tension and then tie my mainline to it. I feel doing it that way keeps less sags in the line. But other poeple might do it different.

[red maples]

I just hung my first 700' and I 'M a rookie but I put up the wire tightened it up. then tied on the tubing loose the started from the middle and worked my way to the ends tightening as I went. then I tied it to several trees through out to tighten it even more. and eliminate any sags from the wieght of the tubbing. and so far so good and no sagsa at this point.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I run the wire first and get it tight and then install the mainline.

[JoeJ]

Most of the suppliers around here in Vermont sell mainline tension grips for 1/2" pipe to 2" to pipe. I learned that the hard way. When I started I just put up my mainline wire and hung the 3/4" pipe with wire ties. The next summer, 75% of the pipe was snaking along the wire. Then I found out about the tension grips and how you should really hang your mainline. Install your wire, side tie, then layout your mainline, clamp one end of the mainline to your wire and then put a tension grip on the other end of the mainline hooked to a come along. Tighten up the come along, the wire tie the mainline to your wire. I use 2 SS clamps on each end to hold mainline in place. This method reduces snaking to almost zero.

I wish that some one had told me about the tension grips before I hung my first pipe. I spent a lot of time going back and restretching all the pipe that snaked along the wire because it was not tight enough.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Also, make sure you roll out your mainline and not uncoil it. You can roll it out like a ball and prevent most of the snaking.

[lpakiz]

I just did 1500 feet of 3/4 30P mainline (first time ever) and here's what worked great for me. I ran and sidetied the wire, getting it fiddle string tight. Then I ran the mainline out and tied one end to the double loop of wire next to one of the anchor trees. I went to the other end with a piece of small (1/4- 3/8?) nylon rope about 12 feet long. I put a couple half-hitches into the rope around the pipe and hooked to the last tree (or near the last tree). Then another small loop near the half hitch. Pass the rope around the anchor tree (or the anchor itself) and then thru the small loop. Now you can pull the tube tight, temporarily anchor with a simple knot thru the small loop. Go back along the line, raising it and stretching as you go. I put a few real loose ties (loops of plain wire, really) to hold the pipe near the wire around curves. On a real long stretch or around a curve, I used two ropes-one near the curve and one at the end. Return to the rope(s) and re-tighten. Repeat as necessary. I fear only that I have the pipe too tight. I wired about every 18 inches.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

In general, I stretch and side tie my wire then attach the pipe. Pipe is unrolled under the wire (sometimes it is easier to unroll it somewhere in the open and then drag the length in under the wire) and then attached loosely with wire ties at about 8 foot intervals along the length. I attach one end to the wire using a ss clamp and then pull as much slack out as possible from the opposite end. I then proceed to wire tie, placing ties at about 10 to 12 inch intervals. Where the wire has been side tied there will be angles that the pipe will be pulled towards thus tightening the pipe further. It is not always necessary or possible to draw the pipe all the way to these angles. These will make a place where further tightening can be accomplished if necessary later.
Pipe that is suspended out of reach in the air over a long distance may be attached to the wire and then both suspended at once and side tied. I am not as comfortable with this method as I never feel that my pipe is as tight.

[JoeJ]

Poly pipe has a huge temperature expansion (contraction) coefficient
The formula to figure the expansion / contraction is expansion coefficient times the temperature change times the length of pipe. .67 x (T2 - T1)divided by 100 x length of pipe divided by 100. If you hang pipe at 45 degrees and your low temperature is -15 degrees your temp change is 60.
So in 500' of pipe it figures out to be .67 x (60 :- 100) x 500 :- 100 = 20.1"
Your 500' pipe will shrink 20.1". Then if your temperature goes up to 100 degrees, your pipe will expand 20", thus the snaking effect. So it is kind of critical to strike a balance when hanging your pipe not to hang it too loose but also not to hang it too tight. ( I hate the look of pipe snaking along the wire).

When I tighten my pipe with my come along, I try to use some judgement in how tight to pull the pipe depending on the temperature. I install the pipe a lot tighter at 30 degrees than at 80 degrees. Since I have used the come along method for three years, I have not had any pipe pull off fittings because it was too tight and also I have eliminated 99% of the snakeing.

I also loosely wire tie my pipe every 20' before I put the come along on it.

[caseyssugarshack93]

i run my wire then just put a little tencion on it with a wire rachet thenm i run my pipe and twist tie it and then side tie, i never had any problems yet, but we will see. ill have to try it some differnt way to see what one i like best

[Snow Hill Farm]

I couldn't agree with JoeJ more, use a come along and a tension grip! I had the same snaking problem for years and last year learned this trick from Joe. The only other comment I have is I only go 100-120' and use ratchets and J hooks in the trees rather than looping the wire around the tree. This avoids most side tying because a lot of my mains are along woods roads and they need to be somewhat straight.

[Brent]

Well for the other side of the story, I got a handful of tension grips with my first purchase tubing and wire and never used them.

I anchored both ends of the wire and pulled it a tight as I could in the cold with nothing but gloved hands. Then tied the tubing to the wire.

Then pulled and side tied the wire to trees about 10 feet out of line. That got me more than enough tension to keep the wire straight and tight all winter. The tube did stretch a bit but I just started in the middle and pushed on the ties towards each end. In the middle I only gained a quarter inch or so but out at the ends it gave up several inches and the sags were all gone. I did not put the wires close enough together. 3' is way too far apart. Some folks say every foot.

[Brent]

Maybe I should add that when I did the side ties I went from the main wire, around the side tree and back the main wire about 3 feet from where I left it. This makes a nice gradual curve to the tubing, which naturally tries to cut the sharpness out of the corner.

Simple, no ratches, no come alongs. More cash for boiling sodas

[caseyssugarshack93]

i never used the tencion grips before, do you wire tie the mainline the hook the tencion grip then tighten it or put the tencion grip on and tirghen it up then twist tie

[mtnmeadowmplfarm]

I run my wire, anchor to the end tree, then tension with a fence tensioner at the opposite end of the wire. Then pull the pipe through and attach it to the anchor with a loop of fence wire and a hose clamp. I install the hose clamp between the end of the pipe and the loop of wire, no need to run the wire through the hose clamp. After that I work my way back up the pipe installing wire ties every 15 ft. At the other end I affix a gripple to the pipe and attach the gripple to the anchor. With two people a 3/4" mainline can easily be pulled tight by hand. Otherwise, use a ratchet strap rather than a come a long to avoid overtightening .I dont understand why so many people use side ties on mainlines. I have found that 95% of the time, laterals will add a sufficient amount of tension to the mainlines. An uncoiler for pipe will also speed up the process tremendously. I ran 12000' of 3/4' pipe on tues with an uncoiler I can tow behind an atv.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I zip tie all of my mainline and like the zip ties a lot better than wire ties. They don't bite into the pipeline like the wire ties if you get them too tight and they are several times wider than wire ties and the ones I used this year are 10.5 inches long and I leave the remaining tab up in the air to scare off deer and help them avoid running into it.

The zip ties are also about twice as fast.

[PerryW]

I use 9 GA wire. I string it first, attach top and bottom, side-pull with 12 GA wire. Then attach the mainline to the wire and make sure and fasten the mainline top and bottom.

One thing I learned, instead of unrolling the tubing (very awkward), you can uncoil 3 revolutions from one side of the poll then flip the whole roll around and uncoil 3 revolutions from the other side. Keep repeating this procedure, and you will eliminate the twists.

[Dennis H.]

This is my 1st year with vac so I am a beginner with running mainline.
I use the info that I received here and I have found that all this info is great and it works!

I run my 12 ga wire and use a griple on one end and then use a ratchet tensioner on the other. I pull it fairy tight then walk the wire and adding the side ties to get the routing that I was looking for, then I go back the ratchet and give it a few more clicks.
The real "Fun" part is pulling the tubing! Once you figure out what works for you it should go a lot easier. I still haven't found the best for me. I add a few wire ties to the one end and then put a wire tie ever 10-15' but leave them loose for now, then I go to the other and attach a rope to the pipe and pull it tight, now I go and wire tie the entire length.

I might try the ziptie method that Brandon mentioned, I love using zipties for just about everything so I have to imagine I will love useing them for running tubing.

[PATheron]

Abott- This is how I do all mine and It seems to work real good for me. I use high tensile wire from tractor supply. Say your going to run out 500' of wire. I have a spinning jenny now which makes it way easier. Pull out the 500' of wire on the ground. When you get to the end tree pull off an extra six- eight feet. Cut that off with your linemans pliers. Take that wire and slip some tube on it to protect the tree and a wratchet. Put it around the tree and take the ends and tie a square knot in the wire. Takes some practice and you need to have plenty of wire so you can do it easy. Then take your mainline and put it in the wratchet and take a few wraps. Then go to the other end of the line and do the same thing and then wratchet it up as tight as you can get it. Now the mainline wire is pulled up tight at both ends with the wratchets. Then take your tube and run it out on the ground under the mainline. Once you get to the end cut off six inches of the tube and cut it in half and put it over the tubing and then clamp it to the wire PAST something stationary like the wratchet or whatever so it cant slip past. Now walk back along the mainline and put a loose wire tie every 20 foot or so. Once you get back to the start of the mainline Attach a wratchet to the tree like I said before and then go out maybe 8 or 10 feet on the tube and put the piece of tube over it to protect it and clamp a piece of wire right to it there kind of in liew of a kellum grip. Then take that wire and put it in the wratchet. Now you can pull the mainline tube real tight too. Do that and then go back and wire tie it real good. Then you can side tie it or adjust it or whatever. Thats just what works good for me. Im sure the square knot isnt recommended in any books and probly isnt even safe but Ive never had one break yet and like I said thats just how I do it. Its cheap and fast and requires only a pair of pliers to do. If you want to see how mainline should really be done look at Jason Grossmans work. His stuff is the real deal and Ive seen it after its been in the woods a while and its perfect. He uses preforms and pulls it in with come alongs and its very professional. I do mine my way becouse I dont have to carry much and Im always hurrying to put the next line in. Hope that helps. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Theron is correct about the square knot at the ends, works great.
He explained it to me awhile back and I said that there is no way that you could put a square knot in 12 ga hi-tensile, well it can be don't.

I think what allows it to work is that there is no sharp bends or kinks in the wire.

He is also correct in that it is a little tough to make the knot, I am able to get mine down to about 8" around but once you start using the ratchets it will go right down to the size of a quarter or slightly smaller.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

Your photobucket account address is not valid??

[Randy Brutkoski]

I also get my high tension from tractor supply. 100 bucks for 4000ft. compared to 80 dollars for 2000ft. from leader. I bought my spinning jenny from leader probably for too much. I should have shopped around to try to get one for cheaper. oh well

[caseyssugarshack93]

i get the 4000ft rolls of 12.5 ga wire at tsc and i also got a spinning jenny for like 30 bucks at tsc and works great best 30 bucks i ever spent

[Randy Brutkoski]

I paid $175 for my spinning jenny at grimmes (leader). I got raapped.

[Dennis H.]

I did as Cassey did, go to TSC and get the wire and spinning jenny.
I paid $99.99 for a 4000' roll of 12.5 ga wire and i think $27 for the spinning jenny.

Now the 4000' rolls are kind of heavy to deal with but with a few long runs and it will be managable. The only problem I had with the spinning jenny is that the L brackets that is used to hold the wire roll on sticks down to far and digs into the ground. I have to find a place where the ground isn't too soft so it doesn't sink in too much, just a minor problem thats all.

[PATheron]

Brandon- I was working on my signature changing it and I must of messed it up. Ill get it fixed up. Theron

[Randy Brutkoski]

Your not kidding about that 4000ft roll. I had to carry it a long ways to do some branch lines today. It felt like i was hit by a bus. Seemed to find some hidden stumps when i was carrying the roll. the leaves on the ground broke my fall.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If the roll is good and secure, then you can roll it along instead of carrying it. If it is loose, then wrap it good in 3 or 4 places with electrical tape. Sure beats carrying that heavy stuff and safer too.

[caseyssugarshack93]

id say there heavy, i only had to move mine out of the back of the truck about 10 feet do to how the bush was set up, When i run wire next year the newer bush is when ill really notice how heavy it is when i have to carry it thought the woods.