Size of Electric Sap Transfer Pump

[OneLegJohn]

I am in the middle of a big expansion for 2010 season. One of my projects is adding vacuum for the first time. My collection tank is 900 feet for the Sugarhouse in the bottom of a ravine. Ravine is about a 30' lift, grade is a gentle 20' lift, plus 10' to second floor of SH. I am burrying a 1" sap transfer line, 1.25" vac line, and electric power for 220V. I picked up a 3/4 HP electric pump with a 1" output today. Will it push it? Pump is rated at 18GPM at 50' of head. What can I expect? Any tips? I am trying to have the foresight to be capable of expansion to 1000 taps.

Initially, this will be for 250 taps...with an additional 250 for 2011...etc.

[Russell Lampron]

John,

Once you have everything hooked up try it with water. If it works you are all set. If it doesn't get a bigger pump. I have a similar set up here and I use a Honda WX10 gas powered pump. It works but is slow. Takes about 15 minutes to pump 100 gallons up the hill. It is still faster and easier than pumping it into a gathering tank and trucking it up the hill though.

[Acer]

sounds like you have 60' of static head.
5gpm in 900' of 3/4" will add 60' of dynamic head.

static +dynamic head = total head which your pump must overcome.

static head is from bottom of collection tank to top of sap tank.
dynamic head is calculated based upon distance, diameter of pipe, and flow rate.

under ground? thought about freeze ups?

for the dynamic head calculator. use actual ID not "pipe size"

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hazen-williams-water-d_797.html

[brookledge]

If you have a good slope out of the spot where you are locating your tank and releaser then why do you want to bury the 1" transfer line?
Unless you are burring the line below frost line it might give you problems.
The other issue is what are you going to do at the bottom to keep the electric pump from freezing? Are you going to leave it there or are you going to carry it out each time?
The slightest amount of sap that would freeze in the bottom of the pump will make it frustrating for you when you go to use it.
If you do go above ground all you need to do is let the small amount drain back each time after you pump and you will nt have any freeze up
Keith

[OneLegJohn]

Vac line, transfer line, and electric line will be 18" underground the whole way. Building a little shanty to cover tank but the pump will have a light-bulb box around it for cold nights. One other question is what type of releaser is needed? I am looking at a mechanical releaser for about 500 taps for about $500. Should I just get an electric releaser b/c I have power down there? Is there a particular mechanical releaser I should consider for future growth?

[OneLegJohn]

Russ,

I have one of those four stroke Honda pumps. I did pump up to the top of the ravine with about 200' of 3/4" garden hose to a mobile collection tank. It worked....it took 15 minutes to pump a 55 gallon drum up. But I have another 700' feet to go... Is there a rule of thumb for gas-to-electric-comparison.

[Russell Lampron]

John,

I don't know of any gas to electric comparison/conversion rule of thumb. Friction and head pressure are what will determine the flow rate. Increasing the garden hose to a 1" pipe would have made a big difference, less friction, in the time that it took for the barrel to fill.

[Gerryfamily5]

John,
I also have a remote tank/releaser set up.It is roughly 1900' tank to tank,with a 30'+ rise than back down to the SH.I use a !"pipe w/ a 1/2hp elec. pump works great.It is much slower than my large Honda pump and 1 1/2"pipe, but now I don't have to stand there and wait,because the elec pump is on a float switch(cheap money but a real time saver).The hole thing is in the air 1" trans line,1 1/2"vac,10/wire elec.,all sloped to drain completely.Works great w/ 900 taps.

[KenWP]

Even at 18 gallons a minute your moving a 1000 gallons a hour and it takes a pretty big bush to make that kind of sap in a hurry.

[brookledge]

I'm still not sure why you want to bury the transfer line. If it freezes you are all done, and it will definately be in frost at only 18" deep. Unless you will be sure that the line totally drains out after each time you pump it then I'd go ariel.
Keith

[Russell Lampron]

If there is frost in the ground the sap will freeze in the pipe before it reaches its destination. The first time that I pumped my tank last season it was only about 20 degrees outside. The sap started to trickle out at the sugarhouse but soon came to a stop. My 1" transfer pipe is suspended in the air. The first warm day after that it thawed and lesson learned I only pump sap back up the hill when it is above freezing.

On most years here lately we don't get much more than an inch or 2 of frost in the ground if it freezes at all. If you get more than a foot of frost in Ohio I would bury the pipe deeper or suspend it in the air.

[OneLegJohn]

My thought was to have an air connection in the sugarhouse on the water line. When it gets cold - I will blow it out back to the collection tank. The land is slightly rolling, I can't keep slope.

[Maplewalnut]

If you are referring to the hobby releaser by Lapierre-stay away. Nothing but problems for a lot of guys on here. Nothing to prevent sap from being sucked up to your pump when (notice I didn't say if) your float sticks Great concept, great price but needs some engineering tweeks before I would even look at them again Spend a little extra for a full size single mechanical.

[OneLegJohn]

That's what I'm talkin about! Good info like that. So which releaser do I get and how much is it? I guess there are dual chamber setups. Sounds like we have a similar background and setup. Only, I only have two boys at this point...

[OneLegJohn]

Turns out it takes 42PSI to pump 850 feet with 60 foot of rise. I ended up having to use a 3/4HP Gould's pump to get it there in a timely manner. I also blow the line out with air to clear it on really cold nights.

[TroutBrookSH]

John, I am heading into 2011 season with similar situation. Need to pump up a ~60ft rise for about 500ft. Will be running a generator to run vacuum and transfer pump. I have the same concerns about freeze up. Were you happy with the performance of your Gould pump? Which model did you use? Thanks.

Greg