Sugar House Roof

[MartinP]

Does anyone have any ideas on roofing for sugar house? I was thinking of metal roofing over perlins instead of decking it and putting metal over. Will decking solid absorb moisture and cause mold? Will just going with metal on perlins cause lots of drips?? Part decked part not?? Any ideas will be appreciated. The walls are up and this weekend hopefully the roof.

[Bucket Head]

Martin,

Don't go with the tin exposed. The steam condenses on it and then you will be boiling in the "rain" that is created. It will drip from everything. Put wood down first. It won't condense, and the wood will be fine. You are planning on a steam stack or cupola, right? Thats a must. As long as most of the steam gets out alright, the wood will be alright too.

Steve

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Martin,
Go with solid wood and avoid the condensation. You will only be exposing it to the steam a very few days during the year and any moisture it absorbs in the spring will be thoroughly dried out in the following months. The condensation on the underside of a steel roof is a constant irritant that you want to avoid.

[MartinP]

Thanks for the replies. It will have a cupola that is as big as the pans. (2x6)Will the trusses going thru the cuploa be a problem or should the thing be framed out with no restrictions?
Roof pitch is 4/12. I wish I would have thought about that more. I am now thinking that 6/12 or 8/12 would have been better.
Martin

[brookledge]

your trusses will not hurt your cupola. When you are building the cupola it will look better if you make the roof pitch the same. I'd just nail your uprights for the cupola right to the trusses.
Keith

[vernon.gil@gmail.com]

Thanks for the replies. It will have a cupola that is as big as the pans. (2x6)Will the trusses going thru the cuploa be a problem or should the thing be framed out with no restrictions?
Roof pitch is 4/12. I wish I would have thought about that more. I am now thinking that 6/12 or 8/12 would have been better.
Martin
I am planning on doing the same as others have advised you...wood decking and then metal. However, I plan on putting poly vapor barrier over the decking then one inch of pink insulation board and then the nailing purlins and finish it off with metal roofing. The vapor barrier--which is normall used in house construction betweeen insulation and heated spaces should keep the condensation out of the wood and the insulation should limit the temperature difference between inside and outside thus reducing the condensation somewhat. I have not built a sugar house this way but I have built three small cabins this way and it worked out fine. Any thought anybody?

[3rdgen.maple]

Guys just a little side note for you. When I redid my garage roof with steel I stripped my roof back down to the boards and replaced some that were rotting from a leak. The dealer told me that if I was putting it down with complete decking under it and not perlins that I had to put down 90lb tar paper in order to not void the warranty on it. I called the manufacturer to see if the dealer was just trying to get another dollar out of me and they confirmed that the dealer was indeed correct.

[SeanD]

Thanks for the tip on the tar paper. I was actually going to post a question about that. I'll check with my roof manufacturer, too.

On the wood decking note, I wasn't sure what people did around the smoke stack. Should I cut the wood decking back to the joists (2' o/c) and let the metal roofing support the weight of the roof jack on the peak?

Sean

[bison1973]

I'm putting my evaporator into a shed that has just a metal roof (no decking). If I have steam hoods and stacks that will go all the way outside through the roof. Should I have any condensation/dripping problems?

I would think I would be OK this way.


TIM

[dschultz]

Tim,with a steam hood you will have no dripping at all.All my steam goes out the pipe.Where in Clark County are you?I'm from Neillsville

[maple flats]

I should have asked these questions before I built. I have purlins every 18" with steel roofing on that. It did drip the first year, however, by the second year I made a hood and now I get no dripping. My hood covers the back pan and is about 16" above the front pan and covers full width but not the forward most 6". It has enough draw that I get no drips now.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a metal roof with purlins and I have very little drip problems unless it is raining outside or snow on the roof. Once building gets warmed up, problem goes away. I have a hood and the front of the hood is suspended about 12" above the syrup pan, so I get some steam outside of it.

I have baked enamel roof and the underside is white, so I would have to cover it up as it looks nice.

[Dave Y]

My sugarhouse has a metal roof on deck with Ice gaurd between the deck and metal. I should not have any problems with condensation or leaks.

[MartinP]

Well, I got the roof decked and the cupula framed up last weekend. Built the cupula 30"wide 6' long 30" high. Now I need to figure out how to make the sides open when boiling. Ordered the steel for the roof and the roof jack. Anyone building one with metal roof should watch out for trim pieces as they cost more than the actual steel decking. Hopefully the roofing will be in by this Saturday so I can get it on and start concentrating on chasing whitetails. If not at least I should get the sides closed up next weekend.
Pics of the construction are posted in photobucket.

[danno]

I guess everybodies experience is different. I have a metal roof over joists. A very tight cover on the flue pan and the cover over the syrup pan is only about 6" above the pan and 2 steamstacks that go through the roof.

I still drip pretty good - especially off the beams. Condensation will run down the underside of the roofing until it hits a beam and run down the beam.

[3rdgen.maple]

Martin I will try to paint a mental picture for you the best I can of how my coupla doors work. They are hinged on the bottom so they drop down. They are connected very tight against the frame on the bottom so that they kinda bind when closed therefore when released they pop open. Now on top in the very center of the doors and attached to the upper framing I put double pulleys. I threaded rope through both pulleys and going to the opposite side attached one end to one corner and the other end to opposite corner of same door and repeated for other door. The rope gets tied off to a ceiling joist. I untie the rope and door pops open. Pull the rope and it closes the door. Hope this makes sense. So if you look up in the coupla when doors are closed the ropes look like /\ \/ on top of each other.

[MartinP]

Do you do that on all 4 sides or just on the length and leave the ends solid? Just vent the ends?
Thanks,

[PerryW]

I think the vapor barrier and the foam insulation over the roof sheathing is unnecessary.

These are generally installed in houses that are heated throughout the entire winter and help provide a "cold roof" to avoid ice dams.

You won't have to worry about ice dams in a sugar house.

[3rdgen.maple]

Man I thought I posted this once apparently I hit the preview button instead cause it is not here now. Anyways Martin I have the ends closed off no vents. I did this mainly because my weather mainly comes from the west. The coupla and sugarhouse for that matter runs east and west. So the coupls doors face north and south so wind and rain does not come in throught the coupla.

[Bucket Head]

Two questions about some of the info here.

1) Why is the tarpaper required for the warranty between the decking and the steel roof?

2) Why do you have to mount the cupola so the doors are north and south? Winds are not always from the west. Regardless of which way the doors are, could'nt you just open the door that is opposit of whatever way the wind is blowing?

Just food for thought for when I have to decide on a roof.

Thanks
Steve

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

BH,
You don't have to have the cupola openings oriented North and South. Older sugar houses often were oriented in an East West direction with the front of the evaporator toward the prevailing wind (west) in the belief that it enhanced natural draft and hence a better fire. This orientation of the sugar house naturally led to North South openings in the cupola. Just leave both sides of your cupola open and don't worry about the ends. The sides will provide plenty of ventilation.

[3rdgen.maple]

Two questions about some of the info here.

1) Why is the tarpaper required for the warranty between the decking and the steel roof?

2) Why do you have to mount the cupola so the doors are north and south? Winds are not always from the west. Regardless of which way the doors are, could'nt you just open the door that is opposit of whatever way the wind is blowing?

Just food for thought for when I have to decide on a roof.

Thanks
Steve

1.Well manufacture said you need tarpaper (and I think 90lb minimum ) when you apply steel over a planked roof. ie.. boards, plywood. Because of the constant temperature changes the metal will go through it expands and contracts therefore constantly shifting on the roof. If you listen on a hot summer day you can hear them creacking and popping. Therefore the screwheads or nailheads that hold down the planking can wear holes in the metal from the shifting and void the warranty.
2. You do not have to mount the doors north and south I did it because when me and gramps built the sugarhouse when I was like 17 and wanted the building to run the length ways east and west to avoid excessive buildup of snow on the west side, and keep the west winds and rain from not blowing in the coupla. I think I said the winds mostly come out of the west but not always just mostly. Also just to throw this out there a roofer in the good old days would have the shingles that cover the peak that overlap the top of the roof shingles facing the east if a roof was running east and west. The reason for that is so the west winds and rain do not get underneath the peak shingles and leak or rip them off. And I want both doors open for the maximum amount of steam to escape.

[Littlesap]

Well, I got the roof decked and the cupula framed up last weekend. Built the cupula 30"wide 6' long 30" high. Now I need to figure out how to make the sides open when boiling. Ordered the steel for the roof and the roof jack. Anyone building one with metal roof should watch out for trim pieces as they cost more than the actual steel decking. Hopefully the roofing will be in by this Saturday so I can get it on and start concentrating on chasing whitetails. If not at least I should get the sides closed up next weekend.
Pics of the construction are posted in photobucket.

Hey Martin, you sugar house looks like it is coming along nicely. I am framing our my sugar house this weekend and seeing your pictures made me think of something... I was going to use a ridge beam for the roof rather than trusses but looking at your pictures I realized that if I did that I'd have to move the evap over to one side for the flue pipe. What is your plan for the flue pipe? I'm only building a 10x12 and wanted to locate the evap in the middle so I may have to go back to a truss design. Grrrr. At least I didn't build it and then figure that out.

[MartinP]

Littlesap,
My evaporator sits with the left side even with the ridge beam(offset to the right side) Tne flud will go up thru the roof about 18" from the ridge.
Got bad news yesterday the roofing place forgot to send my order in so now it won't be ready until next Monday, and of course work gets in the way of picking it up. They are 2 hours away from here on the way to the sugarbush. Can't work on it next weekend either as we have a prior engagement.
Good luck with your build. Post pics along the way.

[jrbridges]

I'm building a 12 x 18 sugar house now and getting ready for the roof. Can anyone out there help me with a few basics? If I use a metal roof should I put down plywood first so that condensation on the underside isn't an issue? If so, then tarpaper goes down as well. It would not be recommended to simply use boards and then put on the metal roof, right?
I know some posts have touched on this but I want to make sure.
Thanks. Pictures forthcoming.

[jrbridges]

Oh, I now see the additional pages that covers my question entirely...
Thanks for that. I see that its a must to have wood down.Great site-good luck to everyone building right now.

[SeanD]

First, thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences.

I'm in the process of building a 12' x 20' shack for a 2x6 evap. I'm on to framing the roof. My plan is to have an 3' x 8' cupola with drop down doors on both sides. After seeing some other designs, I'm wondering if that's overkill and I should shrink it to 6'. Is there such a thing as too much vent? Will the doors become too heavy or wrack across 8'?

I know I will expand down the road, but will likely move on to a flue pan with the same overall dimensions. What do you think 6' or 8' vent?

Thanks,
Sean

[MartinP]

Well finally got the roof on. Had to do it in the rain. Took a ride down the East slope yesterday. Dang stuff sure is slippery when wet. Glad it only is 8 feet to the ground. Got the metal down and it quits raining. Pics in photobucket. Next weekend hopefuly the gable ends and trim will get up, maybe cupula doors also. I have to start getting some hunting in.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It's a good idea not to get on metal roof if is has any moisture at all. Mine is only 4/12 pitch and I did the same thing right on my back and side. It doesn't matter the pitch, it is too dangerous if any moisture is present.

[MartinP]

Finally, a nice weekend. Got the cuplula doors built and hung today. Now all thats left to do on the sugar house is to cut the sliding door in. Pics of the project in photobucket.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Nice looking shack Im curious how you got the floor to look just like the outside;) What is the plans for the floor? Now is the time to get out the weed sprayer with superdeck sealer in it and spray the inside and out let it sit for a few weeks before entering.

[MartinP]

Haynes,
The floor looks like the outside cause I have been hauling the outside in to fill in the hill that it is built in.:) Spent more than I thought on the shack, so this year the pile of patio blocks that we have will be going down. Next year a nice cement floor. Thanks for the tip on water seal on the inside. Hadn't thought of that. Outside will be stained to match the Cabin and Garage but it will have to wait until sping if the weather doesn't cooperate. The stack got redesigned for this year to. Now it will be going out the gable wall on the side with the access door. The wet weekends just ate up all the time. I have the insulated pipe and the flashings but unless it stays nice into December it is the easiest way to go. 2 45's shouldn't hurt draft too much.