vac question

[bison1973]

I don't know much about VAC systems.

At a sale near me there's a DeLaval VP76 pump and a Lapierre ST-LUDGER Vac Trap Tank. Would this get me started and what else would I need for a setup?

[KenWP]

Maple trees and plastic tubeing and a strong back and weak mind if you ask she who wants to be obeyed.

[brookledge]

That would get you started, all you would need is a releaser and a storage tank. Is the vac pump in good condition?
I'm sure others who have a 76 can tell you how many taps it can handle, without researching it I can't tell you how many cfms it has.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

Does it have a motor? Is it completly self contained and ready to go? Was it in use and working?

[vermaple]

I use a DeLaval 76 vacuum pump, I'm not sure about the vp prefix, think it is vacuum pump, mine may have it or that one may be older or newer. #76 pumps are rated at 20 or 30 cfm with a 2hp or 3hp motor. 3hp motor run the pump at a higher speed. I think the tag on mine rates it at a higher cfm w/ a 5hp motor. I've used mine for about 5-6 years with a flood system at 21-22 inches hg. Totally unfamiliar with the vac trap. My guess is it is a equalizer tank-moisture trap, but being LaPierre it may be a releaser. I don't know of LaPierre ever making dairy equipment, which is what the pumps were made for.

[Jeff E]

I saw the add as well.
I emailed Lapierre and here is what they said about the pump:
Hi sir,
Here’s the performance of a vp76 :
30CFM @ 20’’ of mercury
38CFM @ 15’’ of mercury

I to am guessing on the other item, guessing it is a moisture trap. If that is the case you will need a releaser. The tubing is all lateral line listed in the add. So you would need to get mainline, wire to hang the main line on, fittings valves etc.

PM if you are just starting out and have any questions. I am in Washburn co and down to EC at least once a week. Also, Roths in Cadott is a great supplier, and help in set up. Dawn and Pete Roth.

[maplecrest]

the vp 76 with a 3 hp will average 36 cfms @ 19 inches. i run one for years on 2800 taps with no problems. and very little oil usage.with no reclaimer

[bison1973]

I have eperience with gravity systems. I been using them for a few years now. I'm somewhat interested in converting over to VAC. So besides these items I would need a releaser? What type?

How much would one expect to pay for the items I listed?

[Rhino]

Went to a going out of business sale at a local electric motor repair shop, bought a brand new 5 horse electric motor for $125.00. He then just gave me 2 compressor units off of industrial sized air compressors. they both are the same. 3 pistons with 3/4 inch outlets out the sides of them, they go into a 3/4 inch mainifold (so the outlets are all tied together) then its necked down to 1/2 inch where it would be compression fitted to the tank. My question is... if I were to connect them to a bigger manifold (1 1/4) would these compressors work good for vac. pumps? I took off one of the air filters and turned the pulley and it seemed to suck pretty good, and that was just one, with all 3 pulling i would think it would really grab air. or.... do you guys think these compressor pumps wouldnt have enough volume?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I cant say that they wont work Heat will be the issue using them for vac instead of compressing. When you talk about volume/HGs it depends on your system. How many taps and how tight is the system? Generally a 3 piston pump like that takes the air from one piston and compresses that air and it then goes to the next piston and get comprtessed even higher and then on to the 3rd and that air is the high pressure piston I dont know how well that would work reversing the system.

[KenWP]

With no pressure on the pressure side the pump might not get as hot as they do when under pressure. Try and see how much it will suck with a vacuum gauge on it. For the price your not looseing anything but time to set it up and see what happens. You also have a spare so if the first one craps out you can change it quick.

[brookledge]

Is the compressor 3 stage? One cylinder goes into the 2nd cyl. and then into the third or is it 3 cylinders running parallel?
If it is 3 cylinders running parallel then it might work to run backwards, however the lubrication system might run backwards if it had an oil pump
If it is in series then I don't think you will get enough CFM's to do anything.
Keith

[KenWP]

The intake would suck would it not. Just put a vacuum gauge on it and see what you get.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rhino I would try and not reverse engineer your system and what I mean is dont start with a pump that MIGHT work and then set up the system based on that one item because it was free. Could you sell the 2 pumps on Ebay and get one pump that is designed for what you want to do? It reminds me of the commercial ware the lady has a house designed around a Kohler faucet. I to will get something nice and shinny and spend hours in the shop trying to MAKE it work and end up spending more money and time and then in the end the first item is scrapped and a new one is used. Do you really need a 5hp motor running a vacuum pump or would a 1hp vane pump do the same thing? I beleive in the power of 2 when I need something it will take time to find the first one and then I end up with 2 and then 3. I would do some horse trading and soon you will have the right pump and a monster compressor to wash your lines.

[KenWP]

Haynes your takeing all the fun out of this. What sugar maker ever did thing easy. We have to beat our heads against tree trunks until we see daylight. If he can spend a couple of hours to set it up to work I would say go for it and then if it don't work go find the right way to do it.

[Rhino]

Thanks for all the replys, did some research on these comp. pumps. Haynes your right with the one cylinder being the high pressure cylinder. If you remember i got that massport senior project. was going to put a gas motor on it for one of our bushes, but changed my mind and going with electric for our bush with more taps. Thats what i got the 5 horse for. When i turn the massport pulley there seems to be more then what i would think a 1 horse would handle?? Dont know what was on it originally in the milk house? Back to the compressor pumps. Dont know if they run in a series, The best i can describe it is the middle piston is Tee,d with the 2 side pistons, obviously they are all off set to the middle one. I looked up how much a new pump is like these and they sell for around $400.00. I'm also thinking for a small pipeline set up these might work good for someone. Pulleys are the type that have a "finned" middle for cooling. I would also think that they would be like the sp-11 or sp-22 with the self contained oil bath? I heard those handle heat really well. Dont know if a vac test would be accurate with the 1/2 inch reducer pipe that would go to the compressor tank? 3/4 inch pipes going out of the heads so i would think 1 1/4 to connect them. Thats where i dont know now if i should go ripping one apart. could just go on craigs list and try to cash in on them. maybe get enough for that 5 horse i got. Haynes... what do you think about a 5 horse on that massport senior? Thanks

[Haynes Forest Products]

Only because I paid $100.00 for it new I have a 9 HP briggs on mine and its way overkill. I run it at a high idle and it stays alot cooler and less noise and the vac is about the same. I would think a 5 hp with a 3 to 14" pullys would work well. If your talking a 5 hp elec then your way over what you need. I would not run the pump to fast with the elec motor. What RPMs is it rated at?

[Rhino]

Haynes, The 5 horse elec. motor is 3450 rpm. Massport has a 12 inch pulley on it. What would the rpm be if i put a 2" or 3" pulley on the motor?

[vermaple]

Haynes, The 5 horse elec. motor is 3450 rpm. Massport has a 12 inch pulley on it. What would the rpm be if i put a 2" or 3" pulley on the motor?

I think that massport pumps are typically a relatively low speed pump. I have a Massport Major that came out of a dairy barn with a 12" pulley on the pump and a 2" pulley on the motor. This motor is a three hp 1730 rpm motor which would run this pump at 288 rpm.

Your 3450 rpm motor will turn your pump at 862 rpm w/ a 3" pulley, or 575 rpm w/ a 2" pulley.
As you can see you would be turning your pump about twice the speed that mine was set up to run. I guess I would do some research on the recommended speed for your pump. -v-

[Rhino]

Thanks vermaple, I would think the pump should be able to handle 500 or so rpm if i keep it well oiled and maybe air cooled with a fan. Anyone ever try a reostat switch on their vac. motors to fine tune them to the perfect rpm's?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I dont think motors like that will tolerate a rheostat most 2-3 speed motors have differant coils to step the speed down or up. Im sure 500 with plenty of oil isnt a problem. I think there are a few concerns that work themselves. High RPMs cause sentrifical force on the vanes BUT high oil intake helps the vanes to hydroplane keeping ware and heat down. I believe most of the heat that is made in the pump isnt from metal to metal friction its the compression of the exhaust air.