Vacuum Line as Sap Transfer Line

[Amber Gold]

I'm thinking of ways to make next season easier. One is to not truck sap to the sugar house. My sugar house is at the top of the hill with my vacuum pump. My releaser is at the bottom about 1000' away. I have a vacuum line which carries vacuum from the vac. pump to the releaser. I think if I put a couple of valves in and some extra pipe I can temporarily shut down the vac. pump, change a couple of valves, connect my sap pump to the bottom of the vac. line, and pump sap from the bottom to my storage tank at the SH using my vacuum line. When it's all done, change the valves back and start the pump back up. I'm running a liquid ring pump so I'm not worried about residual sap in the line.

Has anyone done this and does anyone see any issues with this?

Thanks in advance.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Will the pump handle the rise from releaser to storage? How long will it take to let the sap run back to the releaser tank? how many times do you think you will do this every day during the season? Do you plan on a vacuum storage tank at the releaser to try and keep some vacuum on the lines during the pump up time?

It will work but it will just be a very time consuming pain in the butt. I would take the time and money to install a second line as you have already thought about a second line let me add a few more reasons to do.

1) The second line can be used to wash out the storage tank every few days
2) the second line can be used for washing out the pipe lines system at years end.
3) You might want to build a system to use your vacuum to suck the sap up the second line If you have a tight pipline you wont lose any HGs in the lines taping off the vac pump.

[brookledge]

The first question as Haynes said is what is the rise in elevation? If you have less tan 100 feet you are probably ok although many small pumps aren't rated for 100 feet of head pressure. So find out what your difference in elevation is and what the specs on your pump are then you can go from there
Keith

[mtnmeadowmplfarm]

Haynes is right about using vacuum to lift sap from your storage tank to the sugarhouse. I use vacuum to transfer sap from about 500 taps on the back side of the woods. The veritcal lift is about 18 feet.

One of my releasers is located about 650 feet from the road with an elevation drop of around 55 feet. I have a small electric transfer pump that is float operated at that tank. The pump runs almost continuously during a run and transfers sap to a 6000 gal roadside tank. I think small automated pumps are the most convenient and draw very little amperage.

[PATheron]

You can suck with vac one foot per inch of vac. 18" =18 foot of lift. I tried it and you cant do more. Never let sap get in your main suck line. Youll never get it all out and itll reduce your vac. Theron

[Amber Gold]

The rise is about 15. So my Tractor supply 2-stroke pump will handle that. I'm figuring an average day will be about 600 gallons so it'll take 20 minutes to pump the tank. I think if I dump the releaser when I start it should be able to hold enough vac. during the pumping process.

I have 3 mainlines feeding my releaser so I would need to plumb them into one. So what you're saying is to put a sap ladder where the releaser currently is and move the releaser to the sugar house. The releaser would probably need to be about 30 feet in the air to work (I am fighting grade to get over the rise). The middle section would need to be taken down every year. Would be nice to get everything to the SH, but I don't think that'd be an ideal setup.

Theron, if I pitch it properly won't it all flow out before I turn the vac. pump on? If not, won't it the pump just suck it up the line and put it in my cooling tank?

[Amber Gold]

Haynes, at the end of the season I use my vac. line to wash all the tubing out.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Josh,
There are several ways that you could do this. I agree with Theron and Haynes, you are better to use a separate line to move the sap and leave the vacuum solely for vacuum. Properly sloped it will drain back but I have yet to erect a line that does not develop some sag. Can you reach the tank with electricity (economically)? A float activated pump would work slick. Another alternative might be an "inverse slope pump" available through D&G. I use one to lift sap about 14 feet and about 1400 feet distance from a remote tank to another releaser/tank located where my vacuum pump is. It operates entirely on vacuum. A sap ladder might work but you would need several of them as you need to raise the sap 15 feet and enough additional to maintain at least a 2% slope for the 1000 feet it will travel (and with that kind of a minimum slope, I'd go with 1 and 1/4 inch tube). Good luck! Most of us would agree that finding ways to transfer the sap other than hauling is the way to go.
Doug

[PATheron]

I thought the same thing about draining lines that you could get all the sap out but it doesnt seem to work that way. I wouldnt put sap in a suck line to a releaser no matter what. I even found that you cant even really rely on a pump line to drain good and that you just figure on pumping when things arent froze. Maybe if things were straight up and down. Theron

[Amber Gold]

Doug, I cannot reach the releaser w/ electricity. I've never heard of an inverse slope pump. If it involves buying something else short of installing another pipe run I probably wouldn't go that route just becuase it doesn't really cost me anything to pick it up. I'm basically just gaining on ease of transporting and some time savings. I'd walk down there with my sap pump, hook it up, and pump away. I was hoping to make it work w/ what I already had available.

Thanks for the help everybody.

[Jeff E]

Hey guys-
I have 2 similar set ups. I ran a 12-3 wire 1000' to a releaser/pump house with a 1hp 120v pump in the releaser dump tank. one has a head of 35', one is 25'.

I ran a 1" sap line from the pump back to the sugar house where all the sap is stored.

The 12-3 wire is used like this: Black and red are both positive, giving the effect of larger wire, white neutral, green ground.

This works great during a run, as all the sap gets pumped to the SH. The only problem is when things freeze up, as Theron noted. I have to drain the lines each night before it freezes solid. I also added a 'booster pump' part way up the 35' lift, as the combination of head, tube size, made the pump barely able to keep up. Taking 10' off the head really helped. I just added a 100 gal poly stock tank, a 3/4 hp pump. So the first lift dumps into this tank, and the 3/4 hp finishes the job getting the sap to the sugar house.
I keep it covered during the season, and pull it out of the woods the rest of the year.

I really like the way it works, as I get home from work and the sap is waiting for me in the sugar house. I can also monitor sap flow from the sugar house by how fast it is coming in...so I know when to go out and drain the lines.