Chain Sharpener

[Jim Schumacher]

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the professional type chain sharpeners. I am looking at buying one made by Oregon. The model is a 511A. This is the one that some of the small engine shops in the area have to sharpen chains at $8.00 a peice. Anyone use them?

[Haynes Forest Products]

What are you going to pay for it. I had and have used similar sharpeners. They are great for getting a dull trashed uneven chain back to cutting stright and true. I wouldnt use it every time the chain gets dull. They tend to remove alot more meterial than you want when all you need is a quick file touch up. The trick is to make sure they are set up correctly at all the right angles and set the depth right or all your going to do is mass produce bad cutting teeth. I have had people over cut and over heat the teeth and shorten the chain life. I do like them. What also happens is people will set the used chain in the jig and set all the depth stops to the worst tooth and then grind the hell out of all the good teeth wasteing alot of chain life from the whole chain. Some times its good to hand file a single tooth to get it back to cutting than to try and get them all the same shape and size. A few bad teeth wont ruin a good cutting chain.

[Dan W]

Jim, I have one that I got from Harbor Freight. It was about $40. The frame is all plastic so there can be some flexing as you lower the grinding wheel onto the chain. Once you get the hang of it though, it works pretty well. You still need to use a depth guage and file for the height of the things between the cutting teeth every few sharpenings though. All in all, it is way better than i file even with a guide. Dan.

[Fred Henderson]

A power sharpener is the last thing I would use on any of my chains. With a 12 dollar tool from Husky and a fine cut file I can make a chain cut better than new out of the box. I have probably used every type of sharpener that has ever come onto the market. Then I took a chainsaw course from a forestery college. It doesn' matter if all the teeth are the same lenght just as long as the racker or (depth gauge) is refferenced to the tooth it supports.

[Haynes Forest Products]

To add to my last post. In a perfect world there wouldnt be rocks, fencing, old dog chains and 50 nails, cavity cement in the tree your cutting down in the urban enviroment but thats the name of the game when it comes to having to flush cut that 100 year old elm tree that the customer wants as close to the ground before they will pay you. When you Have to put that saw bar back in the same old spot and hope your about thru the chain link fence. Fine tuning the teeth is not the problem just not having it set fire to the tree would be nice. I would like to meet the man that thinks hand filing a chain that has 3/16 worth of damage too every tooth on a 48" bar off the 098 Sthil in the customers front yard is fun. Throw on the jig sharpened chain and get the job done and let the shop strighten them out. I also want to meet the guy that can sharpen both right and left chain teeth the same without differance over the life of a chain.

[3rdgen.maple]

Save the cash and spend it on maple stuff. My dad is a certified chainsaw tech for Stihl and he will only hand sharpen his own chains. The grinders work great but you are gonna go through twice the amount of chains compared to hand sharpening. Plus the fact unless you spend the big bucks they do not set the depth of the rakers. Both dad and I swear by the sharpforce hand sharpener from husqvarna. It sets the raker depth and sharpens the teeth at the same time. Bill's saw shop carries them for under 20 bucks. I have one for every different size saw I have. Here is a quick link to get to them http://catalog.getsaws.com/viewProduct.cfm?item_id=691306. You cannot beat a properly sharpened chain. It takes some practice. Just go slow and make sure your angles are the same with nice smooth strokes and don't arch your hand when filing. With practice you will have the sharpest chains in the neighborhood.

[Fred Henderson]

A sharpforce is and excellent tool but so is the Combi Gauge which is all that I use now. It may take a little longer than a sharpforce but it is my choice. Also as I said before each cutter "DOES NOT" have to be the same lenght. Just each racker has to be the right height for its cutter.

[hard maple]

bottom line is this= if you don't know how to hand sharpen a chain..
you shouldn't be running a chain saw!!!! end of story.

The guys that are really good at it, will do it faster and better than any machine out there!!!

[lpakiz]

Hey Hard Maple,
Hope you can sharpen a metal cutting drill bit. Otherwise, you have no business using an electric drill!!!! end of story.

[brookledge]

I have also had problems trying to hand sharpen a chain after it has been ground by a machine. Almost like it gets heat treated and gets harder so the hand file becomes in effective because it won't touch it any more
I to only hand sharpen all of my chains. And it also pays to sharpen more often vs. waiting until it is so dull that it won't even cut your leg anymore.
Keeping them sharp will use alot less fuel
Keith

[vermaple]

I have also had problems trying to hand sharpen a chain after it has been ground by a machine. Almost like it gets heat treated and gets harder so the hand file becomes in effective because it won't touch it any more
I to only hand sharpen all of my chains. And it also pays to sharpen more often vs. waiting until it is so dull that it won't even cut your leg anymore.
Keeping them sharp will use alot less fuel
Keith

Also, a bar will last a lot longer if you keep the chain sharp.
1. Gas the saw, sharpen the saw
2. Hit the ground, sharpen the saw

Much faster and easier to keep a chain sharp than it is to sharpen a chain.

[Jim Schumacher]

I have never hand sharpened a chain yet. I cut about fifteen cords per year. I heat my home, my cabin, and my evaporator, plus do most of my cooking on the weekend over wrist size maple. I run a saw efficiently and safely. I keep three chains in the truck for my primary saw and an extra for my backup saw. When one hits the gravel, I set it aside to have it sharpened. I don't know that my choice of sharpening metheds has anything to do with my eligibility to run a saw. The reason that I am considering an electric, jig type sharpener is that I know that I could do a better job with it since I care more about my chains then the guy running them through his jig at the local store. I never knew that hand sharpening chains could be so effective. I feel comfortable giving it a try, since the alighnment tools that some of you pointed out are so cheap to buy. Does anyone worry about the metel shavings that are being filed off going right between the guide bar and the chain? Thank you for your advice Gentlemen.

[KenWP]

I hand sharpen my chains as I have never seen anything else to use except a 12 volt sharpener you run on a car battery anyways. I just lock the bar in the vise and do the one side then turn it around and do the other side. Takes me a couple of minutes. I also use a black marker on the first tooth I sharpen on each side so that I know I have gotton all the way around the chain.
Now if I could figure out how to have all 3 chain saws have the same chain it would help. The Jonsered takes a huge chain and the Sthil takes this little tiney chain and the other one is the same size as the Sthil but different gudes on the bottom. Sthil chains do not last as long as Husky chains I find. I also had to learn the hard way to replace the sprocket on the Sthil before it broke chaiss

[vermaple]

I only use Oregon chains, and watch the salesman when I buy one that he doesn't sell me a low kickback chain. An added plus with the Oregon chain is the angle mark on the top of the teeth. If I have to use over three strokes per tooth I know I pushed the chain to long without sharpening it.

[Farmboy]

At my farm we have an eleteric sharpener but i cant remember the last time we used it. We always use a file and hand sharpen them.

[hookhill]

We bought one of theose Oregon chain grinders a few years back and used it for a for a couple years. A friend showed us how to hand file and man did that totally beef up production. The chain never comes off the saw till its ready to throw away. The grinder wheels on those homeowner Oregon grinders are to small in diameter and end up wearing to easily. That ends up blue tipping the teeth causing them to dull easily. Now all that happens is we buy a box of files and file when the chain stops cutting well.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Not taking the chain off the saw untill its used up is like not ballancing or rotating your tires untill they need replacing. Comes a time when you need to hit the bar with a good flat bastarted (I dont mean your cutting partner)and take the roll off the edge and at times true up the grove rail. Breaking down the saw after a long day cutting and cleaning it out with compressed air and cleaning the chain groove trueing up the bar and slapping the sharp chain on will make you think your using a new out of the box saw.

[hard maple]

Hey Hard Maple,
Hope you can sharpen a metal cutting drill bit. Otherwise, you have no business using an electric drill!!!! end of story.

Valid point.
I buy my tapping bits from MSC take them to work and regrind them to my likings.
The end result is a bit that cuts better than the ones you buy straight from the maple dealers for a fraction of the price!
Being a machinist knowing how to sharpen your tools is a must.
Same as being a woodsman

[KenWP]

I plan on resharpening a drill bit to a different point this next year to drill trees. I actually found a drill bit packed away that drills way better then any other I have tried so far.
I flip my bar over once in a while to wear it the other way. My uncle used to just love going into a store and ask a lady clerk for a flat bastard or a semi round bastard and see what she said. She who has to be obeyed got really mad at me one day when I said I needed a female hoes end.

[maplecrest]

i sat here and read this post with mixed thoughts. first of all to change 3 chains to cut wood is a waist of cutting time. on the back top of the cutting edge of the chain is an angle that is stamped into the tooth. take your file and follow that angle, give the file a twist as you push it thru the tooth. after a few trial and error files you will get the hang of it. and will do as vermaple states. gas, file., hit ground file. and buy your files buy the box not one at a time. and if a chain gets that bad i keep an old bar in a vise. put chain on bar and give a good hard filing. i start every cutting day filing in a vise. then touch up in the woods.good luck

[Fred Henderson]

When does a chain cut the best? I know the answer but I just want to see the answers I will get.

[hard maple]

Fred
this should generate some intesting responses.
I think I'll sit the rest of this one out.

[KenWP]

As far as i can tell a brand new oregon chain will cut for a long time unless so idiot(put my name there) hits the ground or a rock the size of a volkswagon.

[3rdgen.maple]

Fred Im gonna take a guess but probably when you buy it brand new and sharpen it before you ever use it. I cannot see how a new chain is at its potential when it gets shipped in a box and rubs and wears as it shakes and gets thrown all over the place before we spend money on them. And if that ain't the right answer it has gotta be after I sharpen them.:D
Vermaple as far as the guide mark on the chain I yet too see one that does not have it. Stihl husqavarna and Oregon all have them. I was told once that Oregon actually makes the chains for alot of the saw manufacturers and just stamps them differen't. Do not know if that its true or not. And yes low kick back chains suck.

[maplecrest]

i have had good luck fresh out of the box. but dont forget that those have rattled around in the box getting dull.so most people i know file a new chain before using it

[3rdgen.maple]

Fred I change my mind how about when the darn thing is almost wore out. Small sharp teeth would equal less friction, less drag on the motor so you can keep rpm's up so it is turning and cutting faster no to mention using less fuel.

I gotta add some thoughts here if anybody cares. As I said earlier dad is a chainsaw tech for Stihl and I will tell you guys a few stories. All sorts of people bring saws in with really really dumb problems and should never ever run a saw period. If you cannot sharpen your own saw does not mean you are not competent to run it. He has had saws come in with chains on backwards and the customer does not know why it does not cut and demands a refund. Guys who never put the choke back in after starting a cold saw. People with the chain break engaged and don't no why the chain does not turn. Idiots who put the oil in the fuel tank and fuel in the oil tank. I can go on and on and on. The point is if you do not know how to use one right do not use it. SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY. I have a neighbor who is a logger that dropped a tree on his partner and paralized him for life. There is another logger down the road that dropped a tree on a employee and killed him. BE CAREFUL GUYS IT IS DANGEROUS.

[vermaple]

How about the customer who wouldn't accept his saw back from the shop, because the service man flipped the bar over for even wear and the bar was upside down. He made them turn the bar over.

One other point, the only thing worse than a dull chain is a dull file.

[Fred Henderson]

3rdgen Maple you win a cookie!!!!!!!!!!!! he is dead right guys. When a chain is almost wore out and sharp it will cut the best. Less weight for that little 2 stroke to have to drag thru the wood.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Fred Now lets pretend that you have all the power the chain can handle..........then its the chain that has been properly sharpened and has MORE room for the storing and removal of the cut wood in the groove. Its the same problem that you get when you try and drill a hole in wood with a metal type drill bit as the fluts fill up with the cut wood it stops the cutting action. Same thing with band saws and saw mills if the storage space fills up before the tooth comes out of the kerf area your not cutting efficently. Do I get a cookie? One of the big mistakes people make is letting the tooth dictate the sharpening angles and depth. You must remember to keep upward pressure on the file so you dont end up with the main cutting surface being missed and that is the TOP of the tooth the sides are there to help with cutting but are not the main cutting edge.

[Fred Henderson]

Well lets get real technical. Why is a chipper style so much better than a chisel or semi-chisel even though the chipper cuts slower? Then how about the cutters that are filed with a square file.

[Jim Schumacher]

Now guys... Come on. I was just looking for some input on the chain grinders. If you didn't live so far from me I would give all of you cookies. All of you except Hard Maple. I just don't like arrogance. I generaly find sugarers to be very humble and helpful. Hard maple is the exception, but I will try not to burn bridges, I am sure there is something I could learn from him too. I only keep the extra chains in the truck in case I need them. I can normally cut a few cords without a problem. I think I will invest in a file guide and continue to pay someone to grind them only when they need major work. I'll put the extra $300.00 toward maple stuff, as someone suggested. Thank you for all of the advise Gentlemen.

[KenWP]

Okay does anybody on here live close to one of thes places.

North Alabama Appliance, AL 256-259-3627
B & C True Value, GA 770-963-5556
H & R Pumps, IL 815-726-2950
Vaughn's Power Equipment, LA 504-466-8568
Valley Mower Service, MD 301-371-6978
Merle Spangler, PA 814-849-2741
Baker Brothers, VA 540-344-2061
Action Power, WA 360-786-5030
A.L. Taylor & Son, ME 207-465-2698
Ted's Mower Sales & Service, NE 402-731-7058
Silverthron, NC 252-792-5041
Durante Equipment, NY 718-762-6610
George Blake, NY 914-347-8274
Pete Vitere, NY 914-738-4754
Zimmer Tractor, OH 765-647-2641
Hawkins Brothers, MO 573-588-4731
Century Equipment, UT 801-262-5761
Farris Equipment, ME 207-946-5050

I am in need of the gas line hose for a Super XL 67 Homelite chainsaw I have got my hands on.

[Fred Henderson]

To all, My apologies for take this thread so far off topic.

[vtmaplemaker]

It seems to me we are all about downing people on this thread... I have to agree with Hard Maple, If you have no clue how to sharpen it, you have no use using it... Would you sell alignments on a car if you had no clue how to use the alignment machine?? Would you do brain surgery, if you had no clue how to run a scalpal? Probabley not.. If you have no clue how to sharpen a saw, take a saw course, if not to learn anything, for self preservation...

[wanting to get into it]

Harbor Freight. They have them, they are not the best sharpeners by all means. However, they are good enough for how often I sharpen my chains. I burn wood in the winter and now for the sugar camp. I only grind them 3 to 4 times a year. The rest I can file, unless I get into something. I think I paid around $40.00 for mine. Works good, for the money.

[Jim Schumacher]

If I can't mount and balance the tires on my trucks or car do I have no business driving them? Thank you for your concern vtmaple. I will buy fifteen cords per year till I take the time to sharpen my chains myself... In the meantime I guess I have a Stihl 390 and 029 for sale...

[lpakiz]

Jim,
My sentiments exactly. After 40+ years of working in the woods, cutting ALL the wood to heat my house since 1976, I guess I'll put my almost new Jonsered saw on my wifes next garage sale.

[hard maple]

jim and larry you guys get extra cookies for your helpful insight

[3rdgen.maple]

Well guys this has been a very interesting thread. I love reading all the input. And this is a place for all of us to spread our knowledge and opinions as well. I can admit I have read and I'm sure I have posted threads that offended someone. If so my apologies. I think we just need to remember it is not a competition to see who is wiser it is a place to ask and get different answers until we find one that works, a place to brag a little to people who can appreciate the hard work we put into our sugaring equipment. My hats off to all of you.
Now Fred do I get a choice which kind of cookie I get???????
Ken if you are serious about needing a gas hose let me know I can have my dad try to get one for you and I will send it on it's way or check with any snowmobile shops in your area as they have gas lines that can be cut to the length you need.
Jim sorry about your thread getting walked all over. I hope you make out well with sharpening your chains

[Fred Henderson]

Gee, I hope you don't want a maple cookie, because I am fresh out.

[BarrelBoiler]

Jim i have been sharping saaw chain for forty years by hand. some times ii do a good job and some times i do a great job ii just started using a guide on mmy file 4 years ago and i sometimes still take it off so i can tell whats happening better when i file espically after playing "wack-a -mole" with it and i have to take alot of material off. i would recomend the file guide though it helps alot to keep the top plate angle right along with the witness mark that some chain manufactures put on.

fileing is like alot of things the more you doit the better you get cause you try to figuer out what you did wrong or right the last time. never used a grinder but a friend has one but he still touches up in the woods

correcting for cutting curves is always fun in all this time i had never put "2 and 2" together that it might be a raker problem. my son is a really good filer and said the tooth lenght didn't matter as long as it was sharp. i never fell to the fact he checked the rakers too. thanks for the info ( can't remember who posted it) anyway good luck and it never hurts to have an extra chain along:)

[KenWP]

I forgot the rakers also and had my last chain on my Sthil wore right down and had not filed down the rakers and it didn't cut worth beans. I have tried to find low kick back chains but so far haven't had much luck. I buy my chain from the guy in town as they cost a fraction of the price Sthil wants and last longer. They say Husky on them.
The one problem I had was I tried to buy a chain from him one day with out the old one with me and he didn't beleive me that a chain could have 57 links as he had never heard of it before. Good thing I went home and got the old one as turns out I was trying to buy too small of chain but 57 was the right amount of links. never told him it was made in China.

3rgen Homelite can't supply a gas hose for it and they recomended those numbers for Classic dealers that stock old parts and such for old chainsaws. I will try and find one or make one some how. I come up with dumb ideas. I thought the button beside the trigger was the primer turns out its the manual oil pump for the chain bar. First time I ever seen such a thing.

[Gary R]

FOR SALE: Homemade evaporator, I'm not a professional sugarmaker and I never took an educational class. I'm keeping my saws because I read the instructions on the back of the box of the sharpener:lol:

Jim, I'm not good at it by hand without a guide. I bought a Granberg from northern tool and it has helped alot. I think it was $20. Once you use it a few times it works easy and cleans up my hand filing. I do have some C clamps set up on my work bench. They hold the saw up (bar pointing towards ceiling) this makes it easier to file the underside of the cutter. Mister gravity is helping. I do take them to get ground if I hit anything real bad.

This same topic came up last year. Some of the same guys said the same things. Other topics to avoid are politics, tractors and wood you burn;) I like 3rd Gens comments, we should be helping each other not put others down. I hope sap season comes soon. Everyones like one big family.

Ken, If that dealer in PA is in Brookville, PM me I drive by there all the time. I'll help you out if I can.

[Jim Schumacher]

FOR SALE: Homemade evaporator, I'm not a professional sugarmaker and I never took an educational class. I'm keeping my saws because I read the instructions on the back of the box of the sharpener:lol:

Jim, I'm not good at it by hand without a guide. I bought a Granberg from northern tool and it has helped alot. I think it was $20. Once you use it a few times it works easy and cleans up my hand filing. I do have some C clamps set up on my work bench. They hold the saw up (bar pointing towards ceiling) this makes it easier to file the underside of the cutter. Mister gravity is helping. I do take them to get ground if I hit anything real bad.

This same topic came up last year. Some of the same guys said the same things. Other topics to avoid are politics, tractors and wood you burn;) I like 3rd Gens comments, we should be helping each other not put others down. I hope sap season comes soon. Everyones like one big family.

Ken, If that dealer in PA is in Brookville, PM me I drive by there all the time. I'll help you out if I can.

OF COURSE we should be helping each other. Thats why I joined the trader! And I DO appreciate all of the help. Please, let me clarify, I am not incompetent. I have never tried to sharpen a chain, am sick of paying for it, and was asking about a specific tool. Compared to all that I have accomplished so far, sharpening a chain hardly seams challenging. I have no doubt that I will pick it up very easily. I will listen to the advice from the private massages I received and some of the advice from this thread. CAN WE PLEASE END IS THREAD!?!?!? I will never ask about it again!!! If there are any other topics I should avoid please let me know via private message. Let this be over, thank you, good night...

[DS Maple]

I don't mean to drag this on further, but Stihl makes a really nice bench mounted filing jig that works quite well. It combines all the important benefits of sharpening by hand as well as with an electric sharpener. So theoretically everyone should be happy with this, right?

[Haynes Forest Products]

No Im not happy with it because now some people will not know the joy of having a file break during a hand sharpening running their finger into the nice razor sharp tooth that you just hand sharpened. Yea I wear gloves But if your good at sharpening whats a little leather going to do against a better that new cuts like a razor custom beveled chain tooth

[vermaple]

Haynes,

How heavy a hand do you have on a file? In 30+ years I never have broken
a file; using it to file a saw.:)

[Haynes Forest Products]

Vermaple Im starting to get a complex. I used to be a dental technition for 17 years polishing gold, SS and porcelain and had a light touch with the tools but when it comes to some things I guess I just get a little heavy handed as you said. I would say I broke quite a few. Now I suppose Im the only person out here willing to admit my foybils. Im under the impression Im also the only person that has stabbed themselvs with the file when trying to undercut the tooth and had the file slip up and off and into their wrist:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Fred Henderson]

Vermaple Im starting to get a complex. I used to be a dental technition for 17 years polishing gold, SS and porcelain and had a light touch with the tools but when it comes to some things I guess I just get a little heavy handed as you said. I would say I broke quite a few. Now I suppose Im the only person out here willing to admit my foybils. Im under the impression Im also the only person that has stabbed themselvs with the file when trying to undercut the tooth and had the file slip up and off and into their wrist:lol: :lol: :lol:

If you ask the clerk the next time you buy files they will show you where the file handles are.

[KenWP]

I broke one Sthil file. and of course cut my friggen finger once also.

[Fred Henderson]

many moons ago when I was going thru my apprenticship to become a journeyman files handles were the first thing we were introduced to.

[vermaple]

I think we've all nicked our knuckles or fingers filing a saw, most of the time it wouldn't have happened if we had our gloves on. :lol:

But as I think I said earlier here to the effect of;

If you have to lean on the saw file the chain;

If you have to lean on the file, get a new file. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Haynes Forest Products]

And all he asked was "What do you think of this chain sharpener"...I do enjoy the back and fou:rolleyes: rth

[3rdgen.maple]

Yeah this post got killed atleast 50 times on Jim Shumacher. I think it is officially dead.

[Fred Henderson]

All I got to say is that we are all entitled to our own opinion on how we want to do thngs.

[Jim Schumacher]

Who revived this thing anyway? Was that you Haynes?

[Fred Henderson]

There will always be someone that can not let a sleeping dog lie.

[Haynes Forest Products]

NOPE it was DSMaple post no 45:emb:

[Jim Schumacher]

I love this place

[Haynes Forest Products]

Jim what part of NE wisc.

[Jim Schumacher]

Jim what part of NE wisc.

I live in Kaukauna. Just east of Appleton, thirty minutes south of Green Bay. I do my sugaring near Phelps, forty-five minutes northeast of Eagle River.