bulk prices

[Mark]

Does anyone know what the bulk prices are doing and how the syrup surplus is moving?
Does Bascoms buy all year round or do they stop buying at some point?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Sold a barrel of dark a few weeks ago and prices were stable. On the positive side, the Canadian dollar is strengthening which makes our syrup worth more.

[markcasper]

I learned from my cousin a few weeks ago that neither Anderson , nor Roth was buying any syrup at all. He wanted to move his syrup, out but no luck.

[Rhino]

Just got a letter from Andersons in Cumberland. They wont buy any bulk syrup from any producer who isnt inspected and liscensed. I think thats how it was supposed to be always,??? but maybe not chisled in stone??? Andersons say the WI. dept of ag. trade and consumer protection are going to strictly enforce their food processing license policies. The license in WI. cost around $95.00 a year. Steve sent a flyer with what needs to be done to pass inspections and advised to get on the list so you can sell bulk this next season. We used to be licensed years ago, but when we were always able to sell out at farmers markets we let it drop. I called already to get re-inspected. I know a loop hole would be to have a licensed producer (say a neighbor) sell someones unlicensed syrup but besides the risk of getting caught....theres the added amount of income on that persons tax papers. As a whole I think its good for the WI. syrup industry. bad point....just another gov. hand in our pockets. how is it in other states as far as selling bulk and being inspected, and price to pay for that???

[dschultz]

Rhino,this new law is for all states that produce and sell bulk syrup to a commercial buyer according to what my inspector told me.

[Gerryfamily5]

Mark,I'm leaving for Bascoms today to sell some grade B that I can't sell myself.They are still buying and I was told over phone they pay $2.50/lb for B and $2.25/lb for C.I didn't ask prices on the lighter grades. We've had to be licensed in Maine for many years now.It's an easy process and only cost $25.00,but in order to sell it somwhere other than the sugarhouse you need a seperate one,another $10.00 and paper work.:(

[Homestead Maple]

Mark,I'm leaving for Bascoms today to sell some grade B that I can't sell myself.They are still buying and I was told over phone they pay $2.50/lb for B and $2.25/lb for C.I didn't ask prices on the lighter grades. We've had to be licensed in Maine for many years now.It's an easy process and only cost $25.00,but in order to sell it somwhere other than the sugarhouse you need a seperate one,another $10.00 and paper work.:(

I talked with Liz Bascom 7/25 and she said they were paying $2.80 for Light, $2.70 for Med, and $2.60 for Dark.

[mansfield]

As of today, Maple Grove is paying $2.70/F, 2.60/M, 2.50/D, 2.25/B, 2.00/C.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Just wait till bulk buyers are required to test all syrup and hold it till the tests come back from a testing company before it can be sold. It will be like the dairy farmer contaminating a truck load of milk with a bad test. It will get to the point that bulk buyers will be responsible to track and keep records on all suppliers and have a paper trail.

What happend to the toy industry due to the toys from China with lead in them will happen to us. The government will go way over board to try and protect us without the unintended consequenses. Now that its against the law to sell cloths with sequins or rinestones on them that contain lead to children under 12 its only a matter of time before they get involved.

I think the quicker you get inspected and stay current the better because they will always have the grandfather clause in there someware.

[Rhino]

Haynes your probably right sad to say. reading over the inspection guidlines i got in the mail it says if you sell sap you dont need a license. This part dos'nt make any sense. licensed producers have to have all their pails, totes, containers, ect. covered so no birds or insects get in the sap.(good luck keeping the moths out). But.....someone who isnt inspected can have open buckets, totes, containers ect. and sell that sap to the licensed producer who can't use those containers without covers or lids. We all want to make a great final product but some of these rules are crazy.

[dschultz]

Rhino,did you get your info from Anderson's? I haven't received anything yet from Roth in Cadott.Hope they hurry up so I can get things done before winter.

[Grade "A"]

Haynes your probably right sad to say. reading over the inspection guidlines i got in the mail it says if you sell sap you dont need a license. This part dos'nt make any sense. licensed producers have to have all their pails, totes, containers, ect. covered so no birds or insects get in the sap.(good luck keeping the moths out). But.....someone who isnt inspected can have open buckets, totes, containers ect. and sell that sap to the licensed producer who can't use those containers without covers or lids. We all want to make a great final product but some of these rules are crazy.

I see a loop hole, all you need to do is have two companies. One is a sap business and the other is a maple production business. You can license your maple products part. Then have your other not licensed sap business sell sap to your licensed maple products business. It may not work but how knows.

[Haynes Forest Products]

dschultz Dawn said it she was getting the info soon but the bottom line is you will need to be inspected and have a current license to sell to them.

[Rhino]

I got the info. from Andersons. In their cover letter steve wrote,"There is a loop hole, but generally it is best to get licensed. We will be asking for license numbers when you sell to us in 2010." I got this letter along with the food processing requirments over a week ago. called that same day and got the name of our inspector. called and left voice messages. no response. 2 days ago called their head quarters and ask if this inspector was on vacation and he said no. left 2 more voice messages. nothing yet. This is already starting to be a big pain. The guy i talked to who told me who my inspector will be told me to request a pre-walk through, so that i can make any changes to be up to code, that way when they come in spring i should pass easy. Hard to jump through the hoops when they dont even return your calls.

[dschultz]

Called my inspector 3 weeks ago for a pre-walk through.He said he was going to be in the area in the next couple of weeks and would call be a day or 2 ahead and let me know he was coming,well it's been 3 weeks and no word yet.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I bet their all up in Minasota watching the Vikings new Quarter back practicing

[Woody]

So are these the same regs. you'd have to comply with to sell retail?

[Rhino]

woody, on the operation checklist i got from Andersons, it has 7 diff. sections that the inspector will look at. sap collection, storage tanks, sap processing,syrup collection and storage, syrup finishing and packaging, retail sales, toilet facilities. If your in my situation, I sell all my bottled syrup myself at 4 diff. farmers markets. so I dont think i have to have my bottling room inspected, Its mainly going to be my syrup house and how i collect, transport, process, the sap and syrup that i am going to sell in bulk. Tried calling twice again today........voicemail. going to call the head guy again and have him leave her a mess. for me. If this is what its going to be like, maybe i will just have a buddy of mine with a really simple set up (200 bags, hooded flat pan in a building) get the license with both our names and i will just sell syrup on that license. what a hassle.

[Rhino]

Just got off the phone with the head of inspectors for our area, hes out of Green Bay. Told him the trouble i'm having. He e-mailed her to please call me back. All I can think of is her voicemail is not recording. They would,nt purposely snub me, would they?? He ask what I was going to have inspected, told him maple syrup procuction facility. He said in fact hes traveling tomorrow with one of his inspectors and looking over one in Marathon county so hopefully the wheels are in motion for me.

[lpakiz]

Rhino,
Could you share the phone number/EMail address of "our" inspector??
THANKS LOTS!!

[gmcooper]

I do not know about your inspectors in WI but here in Maine they do a million other things and usually only do maple in spring. Some of ours are on the road most of the week and rarely in the office to answer calls.
Good luck

[markcasper]

The inspectors that visit grade A dairy farms do the maple inspection, at least in Wisconsin.

I have the same inspector that does my families dairy barn. Since it all at the same place, the Grade A dairy is a big plus for the syrup.

There was a time where I was never inspected for 3 years in a row. I did receive my license however, as I never missed their fees. In 2008 and 2007 the inspector came in July to due the inspection. This past spring he came during the season. I asked him why the off season thing in prior years. He responded saying that he was on vacation one year and the other year he broke a bone or somethin, was layed up and never got to the sugarbushes during the season.

I have had about 4 different inspecters over the years and each ones style is a little bit different. For the most part they are pretty understanding and as long as your showing some effort to keep things decent, they will more than accomodate you.

[Rhino]

lpakiz, I will give you the number to the "supervisor" of the nine inscpectors who do the northern part of WI. His name is Pete Klein and the number is 920-865-1499. just tell him your in greenwood and im sure if they dont do your area, he can give you the number for your area supervisor/inspectors...good luck.

[Rhino]

Got a call from the inspector today, scheduled for oct. 5th for my preliminary walk through. Now I have to really clean it up, usually I do that right before the season. Glad that the ball is rolling now.

[lpakiz]

Rhino,
Thanks...

[jfroe939]

Got this from the state DATCP - Erin Nutter. She'll also be at the WMSPA winter institute January 16 in Neillsville at the American Legion. This would be a pretty good opportunity to talk informally with someone from the state inspector's office without being "under the gun." www.wismaple.org Jason

LICENSE REQUIREMENTS for MAPLE SYRUP PRODUCERS (wisconsin -valid for '09-'10)


Definition:

Syrup produced from reducing sap from a maple tree to a consistency of 66 brix (percent solids) or above.

No License Required:

Sale of maple syrup of the producer’s own production, for sale directly to the consumer:

• At the place of production, farmers markets, fairs, flea markets.

• Grade standards found in ATCP 157 and food labeling requirements apply.

License Required:

Maple Syrup and related products such as: Maple Candy or Table Syrup blends, produced for sale to retail stores and/or restaurants for resale, and to other producers who package for resale:

Type of License

Food Processing Plant - processing non-potentially hazardous food

Refer to license fee schedule (F-fd-286)

Notes:

• License expires annually on March 31st.

• A surcharge may be assessed for operating without a license.

• Contact the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection office near you for licensing or for more information.

Madison Office: 608-224-4700

Eau Claire Office: 715-839-3844

[lmathews]

Anyone know what the prices are right now?802 are you going to start buying?

[tuckermtn]

called bascom's this afternoon - they are selling a grade A dark 5 gallon jug for $189. If I buy more it will be the 4th time this season I have had to buy bulk from others to keep up with demand...

[Russell Lampron]

Eric take $20 off of the $189 and divide the $169 by 55 and he is selling you the syrup at $3.07lb. Bruce adds $20 for the container when he sells it in 5 gallon cans. 30 gallon and larger barrels are bring the barrel back and you only pay for the syrup. I may need to buy more myself.

[lmathews]

I am looking to sell 90 gal of c and 25 gal of b.

[PATheron]

Guys- Whats the going price thats being paid right now for bulk syrup? What does everyone thinks going to happen this spring to the prices depending on the season? Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Unless there is a poor crop, I think the bulk prices will likely stay close to what they are this year unless there is a huge crop in US and Canada.

[DrTimPerkins]

Unless there is a poor crop, I think the bulk prices will likely stay close to what they are this year unless there is a huge crop in US and Canada.

There was a very good crop in 2009, but the Quebec Strategic reserve was essentially exhausted by the time the 2009 season started. So the prediction above is probably correct -- it all depends upon next season.

[KenWP]

They have huge SS tanks in a town not to far north of me that they store syrup in for future supplies so that the price dosn't flucuate so much. Those tanks were drained as of last year and so they allowed a increase in the quota to the producers. If they get to much syrup in storage they will then cut back the producers quota to keep the price stable. The only way you can sell bulk to the Federation is to be a member and have quota. A new producer has to apply for what ever quota they will allow him to get in the system and go from there.
The one good thing is that you are allowed private sales above your quota but as we all know that takes extra time and expense and some kind of way to market the syrup. A few guys do it around here but others just go with the quota and wait for next year again. If I remember right the quota price this year was 2:71 a pound and that was set for two years plus sometimes you get two different bonus's. One is after the years over if they sell the syrup at a bit higher price you get another cheque for the difference. Plus there is some kind of packer premiuim. But you don't always get them depends on the year.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think most would agree that the current bulk prices are definitely fair to the producer and pretty fair to the consumer. Be nice to see it stay this way along with oil doing the same thing because in the long run it is good for everyone. $ 4 @ lb would be nice for bulk producers, but the market couldn't sustain it.

[Codeman]

Is there a formula you use for pricing wholesale?
I`m thinking of selling to a local store, the syrup would be in retail containers. Does anybody have a formula like a percentage below retail etc ?

Thanks, Codeman

[tuckermtn]

I do between 20 and 25% off of retail for my quarts and jugs in plastic.

not sure if that jives with others...

[gmcooper]

Codeman,
On wholesale sales we used to take a percentage off that left a reasonable markup for the customer. Now after getting a bit smarter I take in all cost associated with each container. Cost of jug or bottle (including shipping to get them), labels, Cost of syrup (don't forget there is always some shrinkage and overfill),something for your time. Also do you have to deliver? How much volume at a time? Getting paid is also something to think about.

I also use the cost of syrup at what I would have to pay for it bulk not what a packer would pay me for it in bulk.

You wouldn't believe how many are selling wholesale with no idea what it costs them let alone how many sell it for less than bulk without knowing it.

I usually keep an eye on what retail outlets are selling at in our general area. From what I see nonproducers retail syrup for way more than producers sell retail at and they sell a decent amount as well.

Good luck
Mark

[sapman]

[QUOTE=gmcooper;89148]Codeman,

I also use the cost of syrup at what I would have to pay for it bulk not what a packer would pay me for it in bulk.

You wouldn't believe how many are selling wholesale with no idea what it costs them let alone how many sell it for less than bulk without knowing it.



Your statements are so right! I took over a delivery route demanding more syrup than I could make at that time, so between buying bulk and the prices we were getting, I believe they/we had to be losing money. I realized that pretty quickly (though should have sooner). After going through and raising prices, which was scary, sales remained strong and we actually started doing OK. Now I make all the syrup, so things are going pretty well.

When I set prices last year, I based it on what I could get for it bulk, plus expenses and a little markup. I know I'm still low, but everything is working at this point.

Tim

[Codeman]

Thanks for the info, I will do a little figuring and see what I come up with

Codeman