High vacuum 24/7

[doocat]

Questions for anyone out there that run high vacuum 24/7.

Is there an issue with the releaser freezing up and loosing vacuum at night? If so what are the recommended solutions? What are other issues that you have come across running vacuum all the time?

Thanks. Craig

[Gerryfamily5]

I have two releasers a bernard double and a single.I've run high vac 24/7 for a couple of years now,once the season gets going, and the double has no trouble thawing in the morning.The single is close by thankfuly because it hangs up regularly in the morning.If I can last thing in the night I manualy dump the single and have much less trouble.But I am fully convinced 24/7 vac when the season gets underway is the only way to go.Have production numbers that show the electricity is well paid for.Hope this helps.

1100 taps high vac '09
1600 or more '10

[Haynes Forest Products]

I dont run 24/7 but I do run with frozen lines in the AM till freeze up at night. I to run 2 Bernard doubles and have never had a problem with them freezing up. It really doesnt matter what happens to the vacuum after freeze up nothing is moving. I really dont see a reason to waste elec or gas sucking on a frozen lines. The way my vac pumps work I dont use regulators so my flood oil system suckes in alot more oil when the air flow stops from the main lines. I have gone out to collect sap and things are frozen tight and the pump is running fine without overheating. The Gast vane pump doesnt matter if its fully restricted it doesnt hurt it.

[PATheron]

My theory on the 24/7 is keeping the holes uncontaminated and also capturing every run. Problem I get is itll be running when I go to bed and then quit in the night and if the side of the double releaser that the sap is going in is half full when it stops itll freeze up and not be ready by run time the next day. Maybe if your not running dry lines and that kind of a setup the mainline would be froze till the releaser thaws out but the way I do it as soon as it gets temp in the morning its go time. I try to dump my double bernard every evening before I go to bed and that usually takes care of it but this year Ive built a heated box for it to keep it from freezing and I think that is the best fix. I check both releasers every morning religiously to make sure they are ready. Even if I have to get up early before work, whatever, I feel no other component is more important or more vulnerable. If its froze and a thousand taps are on it youve just lost a thousand taps till it works again. Also if it freezes its more apt to send sap up the suck line creating a lot of work that has to be done when the temp is above freezing which means that sap would have been running during that time. Theron

[Haynes Forest Products]

My double releaser always free flows when the vac stops and without vac both tanks allow the sap to run thru them. Im curious when you say that you dump the tanks before you call it a night Are all the mainlines on sap ladders? 09 was the first year for me using sap ladders and a few mornings before I got the pump running sap was being pushed up the ladders and then gravity to the releaserand thru into the tank.

[PATheron]

Haynes- I dont really have anything on ladders. What I meant was usually the sap stops running along towards evening but my pump keeps on running as usuall so if the releaser has sap in it and I just let it go it will freeze in the releaser during the night. So what I try to do is along towards dark once the sap stops running I go flip the releaser to dump whats inside the one chamber. Just kick it over on the other side by hand to dump it. I do the same thing in the sugar shed with the belly releaser. I pull the rod up like the float made it dump and dump whats in it so it dont freeze in the night. Only rub is if it quits running in the night when Im sleeping. Then if its not in a heated box it will freeze in the releaser then I have to thaw it out before work thats why I like the heated box. Theron

[lew]

This past season i had problem with my bernard double releaser freezing solid when it was half full. I was letting it freeze up like others of you had been doing without issues. Well, The temperature dropped off into the teens that night and the releaser was half full on one half. Apparently it froze solid, temperatures rose quickly the following day (pump was running 24/7) and when the sap started to flow it must have dumped the first side with the ice in it without problem. But as the other side filled up, the float on the frozen side with the large piece of ice on it must have gotten wedged or hung up somehow and as the float on the filling side tried to go up, it put so much pressure on the stuck frozen float that it pushed the float rod through the float and broke the triangular shaped piece that is between the two floats. I don't know how much sap i lost, luckily I was there early enough in the morning to make some bubble gum repairs and limped it through the season. Geting the parts was a whole other story. Long story short, I, like Theron am looking to build a heated compartment for the releaser. I am just concerned with bacterial growth.

[maplecrest]

as the season went on i reported the problems i was having with frozen releasers. taking them off tank putting in truck on front seat to thaw out. putting heat tapes around them ect.the only thing that did work was i valved the vac line between pump and releaser. and when the releaser started to freeze i would shut valve for the few hours of bad freezes. pump running but that means you have to be there.like between 3 and 5 am. was when the worst would happen. not to top lews mishap. but i saw a releaser that split down the side of a double when it froze on one side. no fix there.i have found that tiny leaks at the releaser, like the slides for the floats are where air leaks in and freezes that side solid. i have one double that one side freezes faster that the other.watch the metal float rod. you will see ice build up on that first. that is the leaking air above it. then the sap in the releaser freezes.i noticed this after i put heat tapes around one and sat there and watched one nite to see what was going on.the heated room might work but leaking vac is cold and at high vac even colder. one pin hole will freeze a whole line that takes forever to thaw out.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sounds like I have been dodging bullets without even knowing I was being shot at. I really didnt think about the one tank filling part way and then lack of flow due to freezing shutting down the cycling. I think I have been living on dumb luck so far. I only ran my Gast vane pump that runs on elec run 24/7 and that was only on nights when I thought it would stay above freezing all night to keep the sap flowing. The gas powerd beast only ran till it ran out of gas on the same nights. Im thinking I just got stupid lucky. Some times I think we live like the cartoon guy that doesnt know he ran off the cliff until he looks down and then all hell breaks loose.

[brookledge]

Lew
You can enclose it and heat it with out worring about bacteria growth if you keep it around 38-40. That is warm enough to keep it from frezing and cool enough to deter bacteria growth
another idea is to try use the heat produced from the vac pump exaust to keep the releaser from freezing but even though that would be free heat at that point it might be harder to keep it just above the freezing point
Keith

[lew]

Keeping it at that temperature (38-40) would be a great solution. It would have to be pretty tight construction. My limited experience with releasers is that they all leak at least a little thus allowing cold outside air to be sucked in. Any experiences/thoughts on do or don'ts of a releaser shed for 24/7 operation. I am not looking forward to a 20 mile round trip ride in the middle of the night every time it freezes.

[Amber Gold]

I run a similar setup...24/7 high vac. on a lapierre single, remote woods. The releaser sits on top of the tank. Last season, I was dealing with the releaser freezing up. Usually it wasn't too bad and on my way to work, I could take it apart to remove the ice, but I was also praying that I wouldn't have any issues with it once things started running. I'd like to avoid that this season. How are you guys building heated enclosures for the releaser and what are you using to heat it? Electricity isn't an option.

I'm also looking at a woods for 2013which would have the tank/releaser out in the wood and checking this on my way to work probably isn't an option. I'd want this setup to be about bombproof.

[markct]

Zero tank is about the most foolproof there is if electricity isnt an option, i love my two zero tanks because i dont have to worry that they will frost up and hang when the pump comes on in the am and im at work, zero tanks always work if the pump does! I had a bender type releaser that i had on a line last year, it was ok but somedays i would get home from work to find a full moisture trap and little sap in the tank. That releaser is now at my sugarbush thats at work, it has only hung up on me once this year, but its nice to be able to check on it thru the day a few times, atleast during the workweek, weekends its on its own usualy!

[DrTimPerkins]

Releasers aren't actually made to operate at below freezing conditions, so you will have problems with them if they are not in a heated space. If you're pulling high vacuum, you can have problems with them even in a heated room. You have to be aware of the limitations of equipment, and not be surprised if you treat it outside of its operating conditions that you have problems. You wouldn't take a 2-wheel drive, low clearance car on an off-road trip up a mountain and expect to not run into trouble.

[Big John]

We have run 24/7 for years my vac is on right now, big leaks fixed, still need sap for the little ones. Your releaser should be in a heated room for best results. In my experience if you do a good job with your leaks it will not freeze. If the air is moving in the system it will most certianly freeze it up on high cfm. I only use pumps in my extractors, nothing moving to get stuck. And no shock to the system removing the sap from the vaccume

[Amber Gold]

I keep my system pretty tight and maintain 25"+ through most of the season. Constructing a building for my current vac. woods isn't an option for this season...don't have time. The releaser sits on top of the tank and would like to have an enclosure just for the releaser. My tank's 4' wide. If I build an enclosure that's 4'Wx2'T with the bottom open, and put a small propane heater inside, will I be burning a ton of fuel keeping the enclosure just above freezing? Below is the smallest propane heater with a thermostat I've found.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442161_200442161

[500592]

Since it is thermasticly controlled it should only run a little in a small space especially if you insulate it.

[Dale Mahalko]

Don't know for all of them, but the vacuum-driven releasers suck in air when draining. That *HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS* when draining is outside air sucking into the vacuum line. Cold ambient air also enters the top to release the vacuum so that it can drain. If ambient air did not enter it wouldn't drain.

Probably also helping to drive the chilling is the fact that in physics, a change in pressure causes a change in temperature. So it fills up and releases, which sucks in already-cold outside air. Now the releaser is empty, and vacuum is re-applied. The cold air that was admitted is now subject to a drop in pressure, so it gets even colder than ambient. This chills the releaser and the liquid inside.

,

So yes, the best solution is to put the releaser inside an insulated box with a heater and a thermostat to turn off the heater when the inside temp is at or slightly above freezing.

The releaser must suck in ambient air to operate, so this heated box can not be airtight or the releaser won't work. The best place for the heater is in front of the air inlet to your box, so that warmed air enters the releaser on each dump cycle.