Bigggg!!!!sapppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PATheron]

Update from BIGSAP country. Gettin a little panicky what with season right around the corner. Got a bunch of nice ash cut up that needs to be brought down to the sugarhouse and split up. Got the semitanker relocated to the sugarhouse. Was kind of a chore with the semitractor kind of down over a bank on wet grass and had to hook dads tractor AND buddys one ton on to it to get it out but we did it. Little hard on the yard but Mommy didnt mind. She just kidded around about the ruts lookind unsightly and made some joking comments about the trailer looking like crap next to her nice house but I knew how she really feels. Now I dont have to pump the sap back up to the sugarhouse so thats one job gone. Going to run power down to the releaser across the road and put a sump pump in the tank so that will be on autopilot. Thats another job that will go away. Going to also build a heated box for the releaser. Another help. Other than that cutting out some culls and adding some more good taps so should have about the same count. Made a lot of improvements on my lines. Split up a ton of lats. Just trying to do everything I can do to make more syrup next year than I did this year on the same taps. Just want to do the best job I can do. HOPING I can some how finagle a second high pressure vessel but not holding my breath, have things to pay for and only going to spend money I can afford to spend. Hope everyone is having fun. Also lost my dog for 4 days and thought I lost him forever and one of my buddies found him. He has a nice stand of maple on his property but not an excessive amount of money. We rounded up enough dough for him to put in 200 taps on vac by the book and He's going to have something nice when he walks up in his woods becouse Im REALLY happy to have my dog back. Id like to get enough time to start putting some hedgerow lines in on dairy vac and start assigning them to Boo and Brother. Be good for them to go unfreeze their own releasers and gather sap and familiarize themselves with the BIGSAP. Have a happy. Theron

[Gary R]

Theron,

If Mommy has a problem with the tanker, just hand her some polish and a ladder. You'll have the best looking tank in the business:D

[PATheron]

Gary- After 20 years I can read between the lines. I think she really likes it. How could a person not like a semi-tanker? Theron:)

[3rdgen.maple]

Patheron what all that means in female code is: New clothes, new shoes, Dinner, New car, New purse, Longer vacation without you or GET THAT UGLY THING OUT OF MY YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It will come she is just waiting for the perfect moment.

[KenWP]

Suprised she hasn't moved it already herself. Ever notice how a female can't carry a bag of grocerys but can move a couch all over the house.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Hey Theron,
If she really pushes you, I could probably store it here, just outside my sugar house:D

[Jim Brown]

Threon; mine said how long do we have to look at those ugly square tanks sitting next to the garage.I told her until next sugar season when we move them inside to start making syurp again. that was not the answer she was looking for!

We all need a portable sugar house like Gary R.( very neat I may add) when he gets tired of looking at it next to the house he hooks on to it with the tractor and moves it behind the garage.

Jim

[sapman]

My wife likes the look of stainless, though she is after me to get the 200 gal. round tank out of the driveway (been there since I got a deal on it last summer). For her, it would be the shoes that would make a tanker endurable.

Tim

[PATheron]

We all should be thankfull for such tolerent girls. My wife is going to heaven for sure with all shes had to put up with. Theron

[Dave Y]

yes we all should be thankful. If mine wasn't so tolerent I would be a rich bachelor.

[brookledge]

Theron
There must be something she could use the tank for in the summer, then it will no longer be ugly
Keep up the good work
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

I say fill it with heavy salt water and make a sensery deprevation tank so she can go out and chill out after you explaine the next hair brained idea you come up with. Maybe a lock on the outside to extend her stay. Vent pipe optional.:evil:

[PATheron]

She doesnt complain about it really. She never would have dreamed all this would happen but she kind of likes the fact to some extent that Im involving the kids and Im not chasing women and hanging out in bars. She thinks its neat the kids are learning about all this stuff. She would be just as happy to live in town though and have me lay on the couch and watch sports but I guess she cant have everything. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

She really likes the extra $$$$ the syrup is bringing in, she is just stringing you along and not telling you. LOL!

[PATheron]

BIGSAPPP ALLERT!!!! BIGSAP ALERT!!!! TAP!!!!! GO!!!!!!!! Just testing my emergency BIG SAP system. Lots of things maple happening in Northeast pa. Got my new one inch pump line mostly run the the releaser across the road. Just need to cross the road and install the sump pump and electric and should have those 900 taps on auto pilot. Dad retired so this year Im hoping to boil the stuff right out of the tree. Everything should be going automatically to the sugarhouse and Dad will fire up the R.O. at about noon and we should be able to boil everything the same day. Working on wood today with the boys and my neice. Having a good time, did 7 loads yesterday and should have the wood shed full to the hilt this morning. Ill still need more but thats the lions share. Trying to work a deal to swap my lincoln for a four wheel drive chevy pickup. If I can do that I MIGHT put a few more taps out down the road becouse I can haul sap then. I am going to put a Booy bush in for my two boys this year. They are all excited. Going to put a hedgerow on vac with a dairy pump and a glass bowl releaser setup. Its going to be theyre responsabiliy to deal with it every day. I was going to put two hundred in for them but Boo is already thinking 400 taps to make the kind of money He's looking for. Where do those guys get this stuff from. Anyway thats the rundown. Hope everyone is having fun. End of the month were in september guys. Better start getting ready for the big runs. Theron

[sapman]

Theron, can't believe you might part with the Lincoln! Isn't that your cruiser for trips to Matt's?

All the best,
Tim

[PATheron]

Tim- Looks like tomarrow is the last day for the lincoln. Might have to have a moment of silence. Booy and Brother picked out the sugaring rig today. Parker has Big Sexy now Im going to have little sexy. F350 super duty, four wheel, long bed, big cab. Now Im going to be able to haul sap like the rest of you guys. Theron

[KenWP]

What year is this Lincoln anyways. I would say you could have cut the top off and used it as a sap mobile.

[Maplewalnut]

May she rest in peace. I always wondered how you made it around in the winter with that Lincoln anyhow. Especially with that hill you have to climb!

[PATheron]

Ken- The lincoln is an 01 but its a pretty sweet ride. Looks like the 350 may be coming home to poppa tomarrow maybe. Then my horizons are going to expand BIG FREAKIN TIME BABY!!!!!! Was up the road walkin woods and doing a little looksy this morning at 0500 hours. May have to do a sneak bush this fall without the knowledge of the warden. Looking at a pretty little 1200 tapper maybe. Gotta let the tendinitous settle down first or start drinking a scosh heavier. Theee(truckin sap like the rest of you proud professionals)roon:)

[PATheron]

SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, DECEMBER. Thats all thats left guys and its go time. Get plenty of wood and tap every tree you can get your hands on. If this is a bad year youll get big money for your syrup and if its a good year youll make more syrup so you can sell it cheaper. Cant loose. Theron

[ennismaple]

I love it... Always the eternal optimist Theron! If only you could harness all the extra energy you have there would be enough to power all the BIIIG VACVROOOOM pumps you're running!

[Haynes Forest Products]

SEP,OCT,NOV,DEC,JAN,FEB,MAR 15............I'm going back to bed

[KenWP]

At least March for me also. I never got sap untill the 11th of March and Took till the 18th to collect 40 gallons of so in order to start boiling. Then took a week for the next batch and then gradually got shorter untill I had to boil constantly every day. In the end I boiled 14 days straight untill the 25 of April and then it got to hot for it to freeze. Was over 90 the last day I boiled. This year I will know to both wait a bit to tap and to tap more trees at first instead of beleiveing people who tell me you can get a gallon of sap out of most trees.

[TapME]

SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, DECEMBER. Thats all thats left guys and its go time. Get plenty of wood and tap every tree you can get your hands on. If this is a bad year youll get big money for your syrup and if its a good year youll make more syrup so you can sell it cheaper. Cant loose. Theron

I'm going to come and practice with you so we can have our first 100 gallon year.

[ennismaple]

A long nap sounds good to me. I'm also looking for my first 100 gallon...day! If I could string 2 solid weeks of them together I'd be a happy camper!

[PATheron]

Ennis- I dont think Ive ever hit a 100 gallon day either. I think Ive been close but last year the sugar wasnt there to hit it. We'll have to strive for that together. Been hauling some easy wood while Im trying to heal up my tendinitis. Boys and I have been hauling hemlock slabwood. I can get a full cord on the 350. Starting to add up. Now theres about ten cords of real nice ash in the shed and at least 3 cords of the slabwood. Got a lot more nice wood up on the ground in my woods Ill go get with the pickup late this fall. Figure I need about 20 cords of good wood to do the syrup I want. Hoping to hit 2000 gallons this year. Might be a stretch but might as well shoot high. Gonna be fun hearing about all you guys with the new evaperators and how you make out. Dave and Marty- How big did you say they make those types you have and how fast are they? Im kind of thinking of going to oil just so I can spend more time stringin tube. Guess its a balancing act whether you want to spend the time on the wood or the money on the oil but what you guys are describing sounds pretty darn efficient on the wood. Maybe I could stick with wood with something that efficient and just concentrate high. Theron

[Dave Y]

Theron,
A Force 5 is made as large as a 6x16. with a 2400 gph ro you couldnt find enough sap to keep it running more than 6 hrs a day!

[ennismaple]

Mine's a 3.5x14 and they tell me it should push 250 USGPH. I'll have more time to check lines and do other work because the Force 5 will process more sap per hour than I can concentrate! Maybe the next step is another membrane?

[KenWP]

I need one of those then I would only have to boil one day all season.

[maplecrest]

ken your last boiling day was the hottest day all spring and summer

[brookledge]

ennismaple
It deffinately sounds like you need to increase your RO to keep up with your evapoartor or else Start concentrating well before you start boiling which in a round about way doesn't reduce your time in the sugarhouse.
There is always something that needs to be bigger and better
Good luck
Keith

[Amber Gold]

I'm sure big sap won't be a problem this year with all the rain, but how about big sugar. No sun in June and little in July...I'm thinking sugar content is going to be low again this year. Thoughts?? I hope it doesn't get worse than last year when I averaged about 1.2%.

[KenWP]

I was lucky this last spring as mine was better then that for sugar content. But that was also new trees all around and I never actually tapped some of them until the last couple of weeks as I could get to them as the snow melted.
I have corn that grew cobs about 4 inches long so we had a bad year to say the least.

[ennismaple]

I'm sure big sap won't be a problem this year with all the rain, but how about big sugar. No sun in June and little in July...I'm thinking sugar content is going to be low again this year. Thoughts?? I hope it doesn't get worse than last year when I averaged about 1.2%.

I'm not too worried about it. Last summer was cool and wet and we just had our best ever syrup season. Hopefully 2010 is a repeat!

[3rdgen.maple]

Amber Gold the volume of sap will make up for the sugar content. August helped out the sugar content and hopefully september will as well. I think if you have a decent sugarbush where the maples are not dominated by other tree crowns is the key. Lets them get the sun.

[PATheron]

Guys- On that force 5 how much less is the wood consumption supposed to be? I think the season will be great. The trees here are looking better than ever with all the rain and were getting some sun. Be an optomist and gear up for a big season and youll be ready either way. Like I said you cant loose. If its poor the syrup you make will be worth a lot and if its good youll have lots to sell so you cant loose as long as your ready to make it. I lifted my flue pan last night so I could clean up underneith it and started running more mainline wire. Got wood coming in. Cleaned up all my tanks. Im working a little every day to try to be ready. That force 5 does sound good but Im really starting to think about oil. If I do a hundred gallons of syrup per cord of wood, and thats pretty darn good, even at that 2000 gallons is 20 cords. If I wanted to do 3000 thats 30 cord. Thats a lot of time doing wood I could be working on lines. I wonder if you start talking to much syrup if the wood just has to go away. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Theron that seems to be the way that it goes as you work your way up the expansion ladder. All of the real big producers are using oil. A big evaporator burns up alot of wood. Just ask Parker. Oil becomes rather inexpensive when you concentrate your sap into the 20's.

[PATheron]

I think your right Russ at some point theres just too much to do. They are making some darn efficient wood evaps now though for sure. With me its coming down to just too much to try do all together with running lines, finetuning, wood, etc. Then you through in raising kids and town work and somethings gotta give (not the suraring though). Theron

[PATheron]

Started on the Booy bush last night with the boys. Really like what Im seeing. Its a whole bunch of hedgerows run togeter that all come to a common point. Bout 300 taps in there and looks like it should run like heck. Boys look like they could make serious sugarmakers if they werent such numbnuts. Boo can really tighten up a wratchet Ill give him that. Tough little crap. Pretty fun teaching them how to run tube. Theyre getting old enough now they can really help and I can use it with my arm hurting me. Looking foreward to seeing how it runs. Gonna be theyre responsability to take care of it. Gonna get you guys some good pics this year when I get all done. Trying to do a little maple every day. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Nice one Theron, calling your boys numbnuts. What does Sara think about that? They will do alright with you showing them how it's done. They've got the most excited guy in the maple world for a dad.

[PATheron]

Ill tell you what Russ those kids are going to come in pretty handy after all. Its pretty fun taking them out and making them work. Fun to see them learn how to do it. Theron

[KenWP]

Theron is just short for SLAVE DRIVER. Guys always ask where I learnd to build a barb wire fench so that it actually stays up. I was pounding staples at about 5 probbably. I broke my leg on the hay wagon at 4 and wore a leg brace for many years so I started farming pretty early.

[ennismaple]

The kids have to pay their way somehow! That's how our operation ended up in my brother's and my hands - sweat equity!!! My 8-year and 5-year olds are getting close to being able to help out in a significant way. Right now they help by amusing themselves while I boil and their mother fills syrup!

[Russell Lampron]

I taught my 9 year old grandson how to draw off syrup last year. He helped with the tubing installation and tapping and was the first to grab a pail when it was time to gather the buckets. I figured it was only right to start breaking him in on the syrup making part of it. He loves every minute of it and is alot of help for a little guy.

[KenWP]

I can see you guys. 10 kids all carrying pails of sap. Sounds like a plan.

[PATheron]

Glad to hear you guys are getting all your syrup work done! Ive had to work around the clock at work last couple weeks but hopefully thats coming to an end. Got a lot left to do myself. Need at least another seven cords of wood yet and probly more. Got a lot of tube to get up. Gonna get a hedgerow and another bush that will hook to the house setup. Both are very far away being a mile and a half to the end. One will run into the shed and the other will run off the shed to another remote releaser and dump. Going to have three releasers running off the house vac pump this year. Going to get a second ring pump and run them together probly. Probly be about 160 cfm total. Gotta plumb up a second RO I bought. Going to make it so I can recirc both of them if I want to or single shoot it through one and then through the second right into the evaperator. Should make for a much easier season and hopefully I can boil everything as soon as it comes out of the pipe. Anyway thats the plan. Made some nice improvements with the tanks at the sugarhouse and making the sap across the road come to the shed automatically. Going to have to work the heck out of the boys after next week to get everything done. Three months and were about to season in my woods. Theron

[caseyssugarshack93]

Sounds liike your doing pretty good too, What kind of ro did you get for your second one? What you plan on for taps this year,? sounds like your adding more and more lol


Nate

[red maples]

Hey nate did you ever sell your 2x6 or are you sticking it out for 1 more year???

[caseyssugarshack93]

probably going to try and run a other year on it, moneys tight! going to try and run 2000+ on high vac this year, see how the ol 2x6 will like that,

[3rdgen.maple]

Nate do you plan on going to school in the spring:) ? 2000 taps on a 2x6wse I think you are a weeeeeee bit on the crazy side or just over addicted to maple syrup.

[caseyssugarshack93]

I hear that all the time, Im probably guessing School will be seond when spring comes around LOL ha, once i get a good r/o i will be fine with 2000 on a 2x6 probably be more confortable with 1500 on a 2x6 but i plan on adding a bigger evap after this sugaring season,:D Always wanna upgrade!:D :lol:

[PATheron]

Nate- I got a seprotec as a second ro. I think its going to work pretty good. Im going to put a new membrane in it and it does have a recirculation pump so I think it will be fine. Anyway thats what I can afford for now so thats that. Im hoping to be at around 4400 taps just guessing. Not totally sure but thats the number Im guessing at. Whatever all the numbers are I really want to make 2000 gallons of syrup this year. Thats the number I really care about. Theron

[caseyssugarshack93]

how many gph ro?

[PATheron]

The ro is a 600. Im pretty pumped to see how I make out with the single shot trick. Gonna go through that one to 6 or 8 percent and then through my cdl to 20 maybe. Have to wait and see. Be like Chrismas first run. Theron

[caseyssugarshack93]

lol that will be great, you can process some sap now,

[KenWP]

There will be a few tired sugar maples and makers come April this year again me thinks.

[3rdgen.maple]

Tired Ken come april? I thought we did all the work before and after the season so we can relax and enjoy producing maple syrup in april? Am I missing something.:D

[ennismaple]

I hear that all the time, Im probably guessing School will be seond when spring comes around LOL ha, once i get a good r/o i will be fine with 2000 on a 2x6 probably be more confortable with 1500 on a 2x6 but i plan on adding a bigger evap after this sugaring season,:D Always wanna upgrade!:D :lol:

You are definitely crazy and may not survive the season!!!! I ran 4000 taps on a 600GPH RO with a 5x16 wood fired last year and it almost killed me. I was just a little cranky by mid April! Good luck!

[PATheron]

Marty- Looking foreward to hearing you and Dave talk this year. Should be way better for you guys not having to come up with so much firewood. Once this season is over Im done with the wood. Too much work. You guys will think season is a breeze with that rig. Theron

[maplecrest]

theron, once you get your r/o problems straighted out. oil fired is the way to go.to turn big sap into syrup

[PATheron]

BIGSAP UPDATE from Pierce and Sons Maple- Lots of things going on. Working on maple every day. Dragging home all the scrap wood I can. Pallets, boards, whatever. Got line out now for 4300 taps Im thinking but need to do drops, saddles, and mainline connections. Need to install a remote tank and releaser on the Booy bush. Currently putting in a 400 amp service. Need to run 1000' of number 10 wire to tank across the road to run a pump to make that automatic. Need to finish plumbing up second R.O. Need to get cribbing under the front of the semitanker. Once thats done hoping to get another 6 or 700 taps in. Plus probly need another 10 cords of firewood. NO PROBLEM just keep plugging. Sounds like a fun year for everyone with lots of new upgrades and stuff. Should have everything done by season as long as Mommy doesnt notice any of the bank statements. Theron:)

[Russell Lampron]

Theron it sounds like you still have alot to do before you start tapping in January. Tell mommy that the money from the bank account was spent for education purposes. The boys will know alot more about the maple production process because of it.

[Revi]

Well we've spent over a thousand on security this year.

We are going to put 1/4" plate steel on the door, we have lexan on the windows that face the road and we just built a planter to protect the evaporator from bullets. One hit it last year, but Patrick is still functional.

(We have a drop flue 2x6 Patrick Phaneuf we named Patrick of course)

We've been attacked 5 times in the past 2 years, so this isn't just paranoia.

We reported it to the police every time, but to no avail so far.

[KenWP]

Hard enough to make a living with sryup let alone pay for creeps to wreck things. I would bet it's been the same person or persons each time also.

[3rdgen.maple]

Revi what do you mean by planter.

[Revi]

I found out that 6" of sand will stop a bullet, so we have a planter now in front of the sugarhouse that should stop a bullet from wrecking the evaporator. It's going to be filled with sand, but the top will be dirt, so we can plant in it. It's 3 feet high, so that should give us some protection.

[jrthe3]

revi do you have power at your sugar house i had some people steal my fri wood that i had stacked out side i put up camras cought the last guy on tape got his plate number to boot cops love pics 25 dollars on ebay and a old vcr

[Revi]

That's what we have up there, among other things. We installed a couple of cameras, and we'll see what happens. It's a drag, but it's neccesary now.

[brookledge]

Another thing you can do is put up those fake cameras They cost about 20-30 bucks and use a battery to make a red light flash and it has wires that you would stick into the wall. If you have some real cameras then adding a few fake will make it look like you have every angle covered.
Nobody but you would know they are fake

http://www.tbotech.com/fake-surveillance-camera.htm
Keith

[PATheron]

BIGSAP UPDATE FROM PIERCE AND SONS BULK SYRUP HOBBIEST INC.- Been down with the sickness since last saturday. Want to be running tube but feeling like dogcrap pretty much all week. Got the nasty flew bug. Almost got the Booy bush done and the 300 tap run above the house done. Maybe two weekends more and then itll be finished I hope. Hate to do it but going to have to buy some firewood I think Got around 15 cords but figure Ill probly need another 10. Thats even boiling high concentrate. As soon as these two little bushes are done going to tube in a bank across the road. Think theres 600 in there. They're an awefull nice 600 though. Going to have a releaser in the woods dumping into a tote and draining gravity to the road below. Just about have the two R.O's plumbed up. Gettin there. Got to pick up the pace, like to tap in January and dont want to miss any sap. Got to fill a lot of barrells before mommy sees the damage to the bank account and SHUTS DOWN PRODUCTION!!! New pics coming soon. Oh yeah, 130 cfm (THE BIGBOY) coming soon. That should put some suck on things. Theeron

[sapman]

Theron, thought you were kinda quiet lately! Well, today is my first "good" day in about a week and a half. I had the swine thing going on, too. So Sunday was gorgeous and couldn't get anything done in the bush.

Are you going to run the two ROs in series or parallel?

Tim

[KenWP]

glad to see Theron is scared of she who must be obeyed. I have a separte bank account so can hide things a little bit. Not as much as I want but a little bit.
Flu bug is the big thing here also. They have people lineing up for hours to maybe get a flue shot. I haven't got time to wait anyplace during the day and they don't have night time hours for some stupid reason.

[PATheron]

Tim- Ive been so sick I just havent been able to do anything since saturday really. Heck of a bug. Right now I just dont have any energy is the biggest thing. Im going to run both R.O's independantly. They are both plumbed up on their own. This is how it works. Both R.O's are fed from the semitanker. The newer cdl R.O. still has an 800 gallon permeate tank hooked to it to rinse it and the springtech has a 1500 gallon one as a rinse tank for that. The output of the CDL ro is valved in the ro room to either go back to the semi to recirc or to another 1500 gallon tank that is going to be a transitional tank or to the head tank. The Springteck ro is valved to go to the semi to recirc or to the transitional tank. The way I will run them is as follows. When the sap starts running Im going to turn on the springtech and let it start recirculating back into the tanker then Im going to turn on the cdl and do the same with that. That should have me getting rid of at least 600 gallons of water an hour. Then once the whole mix gets to about 12% Im going to valve both ro's to the 1500 gallon transition tank. Once that starts filling up Ill swith the cdl so that it feeds from the transitional tank right to the headtank. That should put it pretty high with it starting at 12%. I need two gallons a minute of concentrate to match the evaperator. If I hit 20% thats 5 hours of hard boiling on a 5000 gallon run day. Thats the plan anyway. Hope thats clear as mud. The springtech has a high flow membrane so I dont want to do anything but recirc with that and the cdl has a mark so Ill use that for the final step into the evaperator. Theron:)

[Randy Brutkoski]

He is human after all. I thought Theron was a machine all this time. I compare myself with him. I have been in the woods at least 5 days a week setting up line since the end of the last season. After my day job of course.I am going to get about 5000 extra taps done before the next season. Very tired.

[PATheron]

Holy cow Randy! How many taps is that total? What are you going to be running for equipment? Im finding the real expense is in the sugarhouse. The work is in the woods but sure takes a lot of equipment to get it in the barrell. I think next year Im not really going to expand much. Im going into season this year a good bit behind but thats fine Ill still come out ahead pretty good. It would be nice to go into the following year all cought up though and when I sold my syrup be able to keep most of it. That would be nice. You always want to put more taps out though. I guess its just fun and you just cant help yourself. Theron

[Randy Brutkoski]

I am going from 2000 to 7000 taps in 1 year. I am going to have to build an ark for how much sap i am going to be in. I am going to sell my sap for 1 more year. I bought an older rig this year, 3 by 12. But there is way too much to do to have everything done between now and then. No point in doing things halfasss.

[PATheron]

Randy- Your doing vacuum too arent you? Ive been amazed what it takes in the shed to get rid of just the sap Im getting. I know stuff is expensive but if you could get a big ro like an 1800 youd really be in the chips. Thats what Id like to have but Im having to work up to things as I feel I can afford it like everyone else. Theron

[Acer]

I think next year Im not really going to expand much. Theron

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[3% Solution]

Acer,
That was my thoughts too!!!!!
:lol: :lol:

[maplecrest]

for the price of ten cords of wood, oil sounds mighty tempting. truck pulls up and job done. at 12% you should be at .4 gals oil to gal syrup. do the math.figure your labor and how many times you handle the wood before it hits the arch.are you loosing money yet?

[Russell Lampron]

I think next year Im not really going to expand much.

I have to agree!!!!! He says that every year. 1500 MORE taps later he says it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[TapME]

most of us do expansions but Theron is the one that makes us all want to do a little more. Keep up the good work booty, crack the whip a little harder if he slows down.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I heard there was another million or so taps in Pa that aren't being tapped. Not expanding much is all relative you know:lol:

[Acer]

Don't worry boys I think its just the pig flu talking, Theron will feel like expanding after he whips the bug.

D

[michelle32]

Did you hear that Thereon, another million or so taps in PA. Keep tapping. Don't let a little swine flu get you down.
Keith

[3rdgen.maple]

Don't worry guys I think his booy bush started in upstate NY and ends at his place.

[KenWP]

There was this weird guy wandering around out back of my place blubbering about maple trees the other day. He spoke english but all I could get was a name like Therory or something. He has a permanant crick in his neck and always looks up at branchs for some reason.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

. I think next year Im not really going to expand much. Im going into season this year a good bit behind but thats fine Ill still come out ahead pretty good. It would be nice to go into the following year all cought up though and when I sold my syrup be able to keep most of it. Theron

I think we have heard this before, your not a good liar! LOL!!!

OOPS! I didn't know he had already gotten all this razzing!!!!!!!!

[PATheron]

I always get this way this time of year. Ill tell you what guys the amount of sap Im going to get isnt even going to be funny. I know what Ive been doing in the woods and I really think I may be getting 6000 gallons a day. Then my neighbor talked me into taking his stuff. Hes got upwards of 2000 gravity taps but most of them are not really on a very good installation, something that was there a long time and he kind of inherited it. He thinks he wont bring me much over 800 gallons on a gravity run day with what hes going to try to boil himself so thats not to bad. Gonna be busy but I dont care theres two ro's now and my dad is retired so those babys are coming on at the start of the run every day. Thatll make it way better. I dont think I can do many more taps though unless I get bigger equipment. I really ought to have a new three post ro and a bigger evaperator but If I dont expand next year I could really pocket a lot of money so ???? Ill probly go right back to stringing tube by June, Im a moron. Theeee(so much sap might drop the water table in Canada)roon.

[3% Solution]

Hey Pa,
Not to worry everybody expands ............. even us.
Expanding by a third, adding 50 more.
Going to have about 140 on line, threst will be buckets.

Dave

[PATheron]

Dave- Your going to be getting the BIGSAP too. Are the new ones pretty nice taps? Now that you have your steamaway made maybe you can make a gasification deal for your arch. Dont laugh, if you go on the internet I think you can find all kinds of info on that stuff. You made a steamaway maybe you can make your own gasification deal. Theron

[3% Solution]

PA,
I figure another 1.5 hours of boiling.
This is going to be a good line for us.
There is going to be about 90 online.
They are in the open, no woods trees, should be sweet.

Dave

[gmcooper]

Theron Nice to see your taking baby steps with expansion!LOL Guess I better get moving on the new bush a neighbor just offered me last month. He claims 500 taps. I know just a days work for you.
Mark

[PATheron]

Mark- Its not just a days work for me at all. 500 taps takes me a while. Its a lot of work by the time its all ready to actually go. I will say though that the tubing and woods work is my absolute favorite. Way better than the sugar shed. This year though I am going to be way more ready in the shed than I have ever been yet. Got all my plumbing done ahead of time, tanks are all clean and covered, evaperator will be completely ready to go. Im hoping come January just tap in and turn stuff on. Really hate cleaning tanks in freezing weather. Plust last year Jerry showed me the tricks with having the evaperator ready and running the ro right so should be much more of a fun year. Jerry and my good buddy Mike Christian. Those guys really helped me out a lot last year. So didnt Matt and Russ. Ive got some of the best friends going. Theron

[PATheron]

Things are happening in BAGSAP country but Im still feeling pretty under the gun. My dad is doing wood and doing a heck of a job. Looks like we have maybe close to 20 cords of real nice seasoned firewood split and stacked at the sugarhouse. Im dragging home anything that will burn, mainly pallets, all I can get. Been wiretying line at night to try to keep things going. Going to try to finish upper run Ive been working on this weeked. Looks to be around 450 taps. Then I have to finish up the Booy bush. Need to run Maine in a couple weeks. Need to put one more bush in. I guess my plan this year is turning out to be this. A- haul in as much wood as possable. B- Tap an awefull lot of trees and if I cant keep up at least Ill always have sap to boil and Ill always be filling drums. Might not be so good for the averages but I get paid for barrells and not averages so thats how its going to be. Looking foreward to season so I can take a break. Theron

[Jeff E]

PATheeeeron,

What grand lessons have you learned over the last 24 months doing installations?
Such as PVC manifolds vs Tubing vacuum boosters
How tight do you stretch lines
Do you finish mainlines before coming back for laterals, or do you do a mainline, run laterals and drops, before running another main...

Packers or Vickings, Cubs or White Sox, etc

[PATheron]

Jeff- I havent really learned anything earth shattering. On the boosters Im sure the pvc ones do work really good but I dont really do boosters. When I connect my lateral mainline to the trunk line I do it just like the pics that Mike Christian has. It seems to be the best way for me. I just run the lateral main right into the wet line and then jumper up a loop and into the dry line. I know your supposed to connect the wet to the dry there and Matt and I have talked a lot about it but I dont do it. It just seems the easiest and fastest and my bush that I did that in performs like heck so Im thinking thats how Im always going to do it. The way I put the bushes in I run all the mainlint to completion. I pull the tube very tight with wratchets and leave them hooked right up. That eliminated the squiggle back problem. Then I go through and make all the mainline connections and then run all the lats and then do all the drops and saddles. I do everything as seperate projects so I can take my tools and do all of that particular job. This year I havent really done one big nice bush Im kind of doing 400 here 500 there 600 there that kind of thing. Been much more time consuming. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Theron I remember seeing a few pics of how Mike does his tubing but can't figure out where they are, I do remember it was a photobucket.
Do you know where that link is or where I could look at those pics??

[PATheron]

Dennis- Im thinking he goes under Maplewrks. Theres a photobucket on there that shows the pics. Give that a try. Theron

[Dave Y]

Theron,
I cant get your photo link to work. did you change your account?

[PATheron]

Dave- Somehow I messed it up and I havent had time to fix it. That Casey fella posted the link so it would work once on here but like I said I havent got back on and fixed it. Maybe Ill try tonight. Theeron

[Russell Lampron]

Theron you just have to get rid of the smiley at the end of your photobucket link and it will work.

[maplesyrupstove]

Take the smile off the end is what Casey said. http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/patheron/

[caseyssugarshack93]

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/patheron/


Theron,put a : ) at the end of the url link thats why it wont work

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Problem is, every time Theron sees a maple, he can't quit smiling:)

[PATheron]

Guys- Can you do me a favor and post some pics for me or tell me what to click on to see how youve hooked up blowers on your evaperators? Im thinking I might want to do that. I dont have a airtight front so I have to try to shoot it back and maybe turn it off while I stoke it that kind of thing. Starting to think Im going to have to really boil hard to keep up. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Man that photobucket thing is becoming really bad with those ads keep popping up.

Thanks Theron for the link to maplewrks. I didn;t see what I was remembering that I saw. I think it was from someone in Ohio, not sure.
It showed how he hooked his mains into the wet/dry line with only T's and Y's just as you are saying. I'll keep looking.

[Russell Lampron]

Dennis that sounds like Jason Grossmans tubing system. Click on his name in the members list and the link is there.

[Dennis H.]

Thanks Russ that was exactly what I was looking for.


I hope Jason doesn't mind but here is a link to his photobucket.


http://s487.photobucket.com/albums/rr240/jasongrossmantubing/

[3% Solution]

Hey Pa,
Your going to be proud of me, in a little way!!!
Got the new bush done today, 82 taps on a gravity mainline. :D
The drop has to be at least 50 feet in 500 feet.
I think it's going to tear down through the line.
You think I should chain the tanks down??
Happy Thanksgiving!!

Dave

[PATheron]

Dave- That should work terrific. Everything Ive done this year is on flat ground. That should change soon though the next batch is on a good hill like that too. I still think you need to see if you can build one of those gasification things for your evaperator. You do that Ill really be proud of you. Are the trees real nice? Theron

[3% Solution]

Hey Pa,
Yeah the trees that are right on the stonewall are mostly 3 taps per tree, one got 4 taps.
The others on the branchline in to the center are pretty much one tap each.
Should be good!!!!

Dave

[Jeff E]

I have done the Grossman method and the PVC manifold in my woods.
In watching how sap moves on big run days I saw where sap would get sucked up the tube arc to the the dry line. Indicates that I have less then best vac in the wet line. This happens when the wet line is 'plugged' with sap. I am going to install manifolds anywhere I am near capacity on my mainlines or wet lines to address this.

Also going to retrofit in some manifolds where I have some of the Grossmans where the dryline occassionally get sap running in it. I think the problem is I have undersized one of my wet lines, so the PVC Manifolds will help level out the peak sap flows and help keep vac high.

[Sugarmaker]

Dave 3%
You getting tubing up already? Wow! Those string of trees should produce well.
I am going to P.M. you about the EEU specs.

Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Theron,
How flat is flat? I have a woods behind me that is about 1 foot in 100 feet I think. Would be a great little woods to tap lots of read that would make some nice medium and bud early so that you are not making syrup all year:). Of course it looks like it runs away from the sugar house. The tubing pros like you would probably look at bigg vacuum and sap ladders to bring it home?

Chris

[PATheron]

Chris- If its right at your sugarhouse too bad you couldnt find just a little dairy pump and a glass bowl releaser. Wouldnt really cost much at all. I have stuff with barely any pitch at all, probly about like your describing. I think its going to work pretty good, I hope at least. The first year down here I had 50 real nice taps and was kind of out of time so I just layed half inch on the ground, didnt even put it on wire and I really think it worked pretty good. I would go up there and any time I pulled a tap it sounded like I had great vac and it must of had sags everywhere. I do my best to get pitch on the mainline and then just go for it. That would look real cool at your sugarhouse if you had a little piston pump and a glass bowl plus that sap is already home! Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Chris,
How many taps? What is total distance of mainline? A 1% slope may be adequate if you over size the main some. If the distance isn't huge, you can increase the slope by starting high and ending low. Reds really run on vacuum and my experience is they keep plugging as long as the sugars. Get a transit and check your level. If it runs away from the shack, think about going with the slope and pumping it back. Theron is right, a dairy pump and a bender releaser to get you going. Good luck!
Doug

[Sugarmaker]

Theron,
I sold my dads milker system 10 years ago which hard the unit you describe. Vacuum pump glass bowl, pipeline and everything. I wasnt as interested in making maple at that time.
Doug,
You are asking some questions that I may not have good answers for, since I am only "eyeballing this woods" ( its the neighbors property) and currently only do roadside trees on gravity. I hunt in it and have been watching it grow for 25 years. My rough guess is 1000 taps +/- 200?? I may not be correct on the tap count??
The woods needs thinned and cleaned up bad. A lot of the smaller maples have died out like 6 inch size. The largest ones (mostly reds) are about 20+ inches in diameter and down to 8-10 inch.
I think there is about 25 acres in this one section approx 750 feet x 1500 feet. I would guess that there would need to be several mains and lots of laterals? At the back edge of the bush in the middle of the 1500 feet length is the low spot in the woods. Again it is only about 3 feet of fall to that point.
Just looking for ideas and way to get into more trouble with the wife? Usually this is not to hard!

Regards,
Chris

[KenWP]

She probbably already heard this and is just waiting for you to voice it out loud and wham another sugar maker sleeps in the sugar shack.

[PATheron]

Chris- Sounds like a tough decision. 1000 taps right next to the sugarhouse, electric available. Boy, I dont know, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THIS IS JUST A JOKE RIGHT??? MAYDAY!!! MAYDAY!!!!EMERGENCY!!!EMERGENCY!!!

[Russell Lampron]

Chris get that woods tubed and get a vacuum pump hooked to it! What are you waiting for sugaring season is just around the corner! 1000 reds on vacuum and you will need an RO machine too! Like the BIGSAPCZAR said EMERGENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAYDAY MAYDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tubing, sap ladders or what ever it takes to get it to the SH. It will be a whole lot easier than trucking sap!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Chris, what are you thinking. 1000 taps! I have lots of level spots. With vacuum there is a way to do it. Places I never dreamed you could tube work well. With a 1000 taps you can justify a liquid ring and a real releaser. Pay for itself in no time. What else do you have to do with your time????? Start stringing tube. Times a wastin'! There is syrup to make. Don't let us down.
Doug

[gmcooper]

Chris as Therooon says go with a liquid ring and tap all of them. 1000 taps on high vac way easier to manage than 500 gravity roadside trees. Of course you will have a bit more sap to boil. Getting that sap off a low pitch going the wrong way is workable. A liquid ring pump running is very quiet compared to a dairy pump. Wife and neighbors will be happier.
Mark

[PATheron]

Chris- I just like to go off like that becouse everybody likes it when I freak out about maple syrup. Its easy for us to say whats the holdup when its your money. Does sound like a real good setup for you though as long as the owner doesnt mind having the tube in there. To keep the money down you could tube it up and find a good dairy pump and do it that way untill you could afford a ring pump. Run the pump off the electric in the shed and run a vac line to the low spot and put the releaser. If you run the tube yourself its 5 thousand for a thousand taps, thats what it always comes out for me somehow. Drop the sap in the low spot and set a gas pump there and at the end of the day shoot it to the shed. I didnt understand for sure but if you said they are reds its possable Id say to do a third on high vac. If theres 1200 thats 400 gallons. Thats 12 thousand in the drum or quite a lot more in the jug. Never leave the shed if you dont want to to go pick up sap. Or do both whatever. If you did the thousand and put it on a dairy pump youd probley get 250 gallons just depend on how much money you would want or be able to spend. Theron

[Gary R]

Chris, what's going on up there? When I met you a couple of years ago, you seemed like the most traditional sugarmaker there is. Tubing on vacuum? Sure sounds like a great thing to have at your place. If you need a liquid ring pump, call me. You might be able to get one for free. Right down the street from where you work, at Perry ship building. They are 3 phase but they are SIHI's up to 25 cfm.

[Sugarmaker]

Nice to Dream A little :)
Thanks guys.
Yep just takes dollars and time!
I think Ken has it about right:)

Regards,
Chris

[Jim Brown]

Chris if you are looking for a small vac set up I may be able to help you with a small vac pump.

Jim

[PATheron]

Update from BIGSAP country Pierce and Sons Maple Syrup. Starting to think that I may have a shot at having everything ready. Tons to do but getting there. Got the 450 above the house in except a few little things. Saddles done in cull tree stand where I shortened and seperated a lot of laterals. Saddles and drops in across the road where I shortened and seperated a lot of laterals. Currently working on the Booy bush on drops and saddles. Tomarrow starting on my secret weapon. The BIGBOYS across the road. These trees look like theyve been there a while. No need to cull any out over there. Bout 40' in between each tree and not much growing. Tapping for production. Hoping to get some BIGSAP, BIGSUGAR, AND SOME BIG SYRUP!!! Gonna need a miracle to keep Mommy from killing me if she finds the checkbook before I get the syrup sold. Not looking good. Gonna take a thousand gallons just to keep her from cutting my %@$#acles off. Looks like dads got 20 some cords ready and Im bringing home all the pallets and scrap lumber I can score. Got two more releasers to put in and a ten horse vac pump to hook up and I ought to be close. Future updates to come. Im starting to watch the weather but I shouldnt have to deploy the EMERGENCY BIGSAP SYSTEM till the latter part of next month. Theron

[Sugarmaker]

WOW Holy WOW!
Theron do not I REPEAT DO NOT STOP! If you did the GLOBAL economy would take another dive!:)
Love to read your posts on your progress! Nice! 20 cord of wood ready. What is the gallons of BIG SYRUP goal for 2010?

Regards,
Chris C.

[PATheron]

Chris- Im pretty sure we can make 2000 gallons. Id LIKE hit up around 2500 but I think its going to come down to how much dad and I can do more so than whether I can get the sap to do that. I think Im reaching our limit on what we can do with me working full time. If I had bigger equipment we could probly do more but everything is expensive and Im expanding as I can afford it. Next year Im looking foreward to just really finetuning and streamlining things. If I could customarily hit 2500 to 3000 gallons I think Id be pretty happy with that. If I could get Mommy to let me stay home year around then it would be a different story. Theron

[nas]

Theron I think you are officially past being a hobbyist!!

Nick

[jrthe3]

theron you just need to find you a job that gets you laidoff in the winter draw unempolyment and make syrup


oh ya make sure your dad knows that in the state of PA you do not have to pay overtime for processing maple sap into syrup

[KenWP]

Sounds like my home province. No overtime for farm labour. I can see it now come a couple of months. Somebodys going to be busy.

[3rdgen.maple]

Theron this is my favorite part on your last post. "Next year Im looking foreward to just really finetuning and streamlining things" I think I remember you saying this last year too. LOL who you kidding. Sounds like you are gonna have alot of fun and work to do come spring time. Keep at it and at the rate you are going the wife is gonna want you to quit your job when she sees that checkbook get fatter in a few years time.

[sapman]

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Theron's post! I remember him saying that, too.

Tim

[Dave Y]

Theron is a maple nut! His demise will be that he drowns in sap!

[PATheron]

I always start freaking out this time of year. I do think Ive hit a point where itll be harder to go bigger though without spending quite a lot of money. Im thinking Im going to normally get 6000 gallons of sap a day. I think I can ro right through it now with two machines and dad being retired he can start things up in the morning. Thing is if I go clear up to around 20% say and Im boiling as hard as I can thats 20 to 25 gallons of syrup an hour. With start up and shut down thats going to be realistically probly 7 or 8 hours boiling. If I start at 5 thats one in the morning. Then I may have to go to work the next day. Plus every morning I kind of need to check the releasers although dad can help me with that some too. Plus now were going to be trucking sap home also. I dont think its going to be super easy but 2000 plus of syrup is a lot of money too and nobody just hands you that stuff for doing nothing so it is what it is. Next year Im putting an oil gun in the evaperator that way all the wood work will go away. I just need to get everything so finetuned it is almost easy hopefully. One big thing Im trying to keep in mind is I dont want to run dad into the ground. He really loves doing the syrup but hes not getting any younger and I cant have him up to midnight boiling sap. I think with the new bigger press I can tell him to just go home mid evening and finish it myself so he can get a good nights sleep plus then hell be all rested up to check on things in the morning. Pretty hectic though boiling 20 %, pressing, and keeping track of the ro's all by yourself. Itll be fun, just got to make things as efficient as possable. Theron

[PATheron]

BIGSAP UPDATE from Pierce and Sons- Looks like things are coming together to be ready for season. Feeling a little better about things. Wood is adding up nicely. Just got two loads of popple from a guy wanting to get rid of it. Think I can have the 600 taps across the road in mostly by the end of the weekend if I really hustle. That makes the lions share of things installed. Then lots of misc things. Finish up the drops in the Booy bush, run electric across the road to the sump pump on that bush, install a couple releasers, couple tanks, run some vac lines out on the ground. Plan is have all that done next month 100%. Then Im taking first week of feb off, if Im not ready sooner and tap in, Then Im going to have to bear down and make it happen. Gonna have the two ro's, double bank seven inch press, and an autodraw. That should make it possable to really get a lot done. Neighbor is even going to bring me sap it sounds like. My dads retired so hes going to start up my ro for me as soon as it starts running. Going to do my darnedest to hit 2500 gallons. Thats a big goal but thats ok. Cant wait for season. Theron

[michelle32]

PAThereon, I think you'll find that your dad loves it as much as you and you won't be able to keep him away. I go through this with my wife every year. She thinks that she is part of it and should be there helping. Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

You need to get a job with road paving crew/asphalt company as those guys are off for about 4 months from Nov till March so you can devote those 4 to 5 months to making syrup.