Making a Vac Regulator

[Dennis H.]

Well Since I got my SP22 I have been thinking of the things that I have to do to it to get it ready for next season, and a regulator is in the works.

I picked up a 1 1/4" check valve at Lowe's this morning and I am working on finding a spring that will allow me to get the right vac level that I want.

The 1st 2 pics are what I got and before any mods.
The 3rd pic is the valve taken apart whick shows the really light weight spring that I will be replacing.
The 4th pic shows what I and planning on doing but the new spring is not in, I still need to get one. Lowe's didn't have any compression springs and I was running out of time looking.

So the spring will go between the fender washer and the brass body of the valve just like the old spring. The wing nut will be used to adjust the spring tension so that I get the desired vac level.

SO what do you all think? Will it work as I think it will?
If you have any ideas or helpful hints that might make it better let me know.

[maplecrest]

those will tend to ice up. what you want is a swing valve. those you can put on the exhast side to prevent back paddling when shutting off.for vac regulator to to www.partsdeptonline.com

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dennis I like the idea and the concept . Keep trying and if ice is a possability then you can get heat from the exhaust air and blow it on the fitting. Remember the manifold air to the air cleaners of the 60+70s cars. keep at it

[brookledge]

I have seen check valves with hard plastic balls in them. I wonder if those would resist freezing more than metal to metal. All you would need to do is drill a hole through the plastic ball and put a little silicone on the bolt so vac. doesn't leak through
Keith

[Dennis H.]

Never Thought of icing problems but I do like the idea of using the heat from the exhaust to help keep it warm.

The vac will be located in a small enclosed shed, 3'x6'. I could always make a little electric tape heater to wrap around it or use a small lamp right next to it to keep it from icing up.

I looked at a few pvc check valves and none of then could be taken apart to put in a heavier spring and adjuster.

[KenWP]

You guys are smarter then me do they make a check valve that works sideways that fits 1 1/4 inch pipe by any chance. I am in desparate need of one. If they don't I have to use the vertical one.

[lpakiz]

KenWP,
They make a check valve called a "swing" check valve. Works by gravity-- verticle or horizontal. The "gate" that closes off the flow swings from a hinge inside at a 45 degree attitude. that's how they can be either verticle or horizontal. Seen them in galvanize and brass. Probably in SS, too.

[chrisnjake9]

i have a question why do you need a regulator i thought more is better

[Haynes Forest Products]

ChrisnJ Im with you on the more is better way of thinking. Now with that said if you run a vacuum pump that needs air to cool it you need the regulator to introduce air to help cool it. I run a Gast vane pump that can run all day long at 28HGs and no CFMs. My Beast of a Massport has a flood oil system that will run cool enough without a regulator. I just have a hard time working so hard to keep the vacuum as high as possible and then lose it all to a regulator. To me its like putting brakes on a down hill derby racer

[Grade "A"]

Most poeple want a regulator to protect there pump. I run my delaval 73 at 23" of vac, when I tested the pump I got over 27" of vac out of it but the pump would only last a short time at that level of vacuum. Also a regulator may not be letting any air by in the day time when things are running good, but when it starts to freeze up the lines at the end of the day the regulator keeps things safe. Plus for my size pump you can buy one for $20 so it is cheap insurance.

[maplecrest]

haynes forest products, you dont make any sense with your comment of 28 hg and no cfm's. it takes the cfm's to keep the vac levels in the woods at 28. like 32 cfms for 1600 taps is my average. i have 135 cfms for 4500 taps due to the amount of main line and distance in my sugar woods. the dry line is 1 1/2 miles long.need the extra cfms to keep the vac level up that far away. you can have all the hg's you want at the releaser but the last tree of each line is your money maker.the difference between .5 and .68 is the cfms in the woods

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maplecrest I stand by my comment about high vacuum verses high cfms. If your using a vacuum regulator to cool your pump then you need higher CFMs to compensate for the lose of vacuum due to the use of a regulator. If you read my posts on vacuum I will say that "in a tight system" CFMs are not as important because your not trying to keep up with leaks. I will say it again in a leaky old system you need alot of CFMs in a nice tight system well designed woods with 500 taps and a good 10 cfm pump that pulls 28 HGs will do just fine. I know this to be fact because that is what I have. I didnt install a dry line this year and in 1 section of the woods 500ft from the releaser with bags and 250 taps I had the same vacuum about 25 at the end of the system as at the releaser. I will say it again a good tight system that is under 25Hgs has very little vacuum air (cfms) moving down the line. You might have bursts of air along with the sap but no where near what the pump is rated at.

[Dennis H.]

Haynes I think what you are trying to say also is that when you first fire up the vac with the system under no vac then a pump with a High CFM rating is good. It will quickly pull the air out of the system.

Once the system is under vac with no or very very little leaks then the cfm number doesn't come into play, it is just how deep of a vac can the pump pull.

If you do a search on vac you will see that some of the pumps that they use in labs that can pull a deep vac often have a really low CFM's rating.

In my case I need a regulator to keep the vac level with in a safe AND Depenable level without overheating.

[Grade "A"]

When talking about cfm's and tight systems don't forget that your releaser will be dumping out vacuum along with the sap. The quicker you can replace the vacuum in the releaser the better but that should not be a problem with a 10 cfm pump on 500 taps.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dennis-GradeA I agree with both observations. One of the reasons we use certain types of releasers IS because they maintain vacuum levels in the system/woods. When I start up my pumps within 60 seconds im up to full vac in the entire pipeline if things are not frozen. If you sit and watch the releaser and the sap intake you can see a coralation between the HGs in the system and the amount of sap flowing/shooting into the manifold.
In a perfect world with ALL tubing oversized and running down hill without bags in the lines and only 4 taps per latteral vacuum would help pull the sap from the tree and it would run down the lines on its own. Now in my imperfect world of bags in lines and uphill runs and taps that pop out of trees or sticks pulling fittings apart. My sap gulps,sprays and surges into my releaser manifold. Im well aware that if it was all down hill things would be better BUT I have to work with what I have and tweek it as I can. With the 2 Bernard releaser I have and the two pumps running full bore 14 Hrs per during freeze ups or 24/7 on warm spells I had the best year so far.
I say this with toung in cheek but if we want high CFMs in our systems we would be runninig $20 box fans as pumps.

OK so Ill stick out my nose one more time and say if your maintaining 25HGs in your system front to back first tap to the last tap and your using a releaser or vacuum tank HGs dont mean a dang thing.