Done messin' around

[Woody]

Pulled the trigger a couple minutes ago and ordered a 2 x 5 drop tube flue pan and a 2x3' syrup pan from Maine. Now I can start on my block arch and cupalo for the shed to give them a home when they arrive. Just excited and had to say something. The last time I was this pumped was when I bought my first pick up. Now, it's time to share the news with my wife......

[Maplewalnut]

Woody- you have advanced stages of the maple disease and must seek treatment immediately!

[Fred Henderson]

There will be a lot of new "toys" related equipment sitting next to that new evap in a few years. Grow a little each year until you have it all.

[KenWP]

After Woody tells his wife we will never here from him again.Owell nice knowing him.

[red maples]

uh oh...another one bites the dust and tells his wife ..don't do it!!!

[3rdgen.maple]

Im with the others man don't tell the wife. Wait till she sees them and then explain you got them from KenWP off the trader for free. Hey tell us a little bout your operation.

[KenWP]

That works. I have been in the dog house for years. She who must be obeyed asked the other day where the sheets of steel came from in my shop. I had to stammer out a good answer to that one. Now to figure out how to get a welder in there with out being caught. Hmmmm have to ask Woody for help on that one.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Woody,
Congratulations on the new shiny stuff! Guys like you help us all to vicariously feed our addictions. We are all excited for you. Sounds like you will be able to make much more efficient use of the wood supply and have enough extra time to expand further.

[HobbitMannor]

Not all women are ogers when it comes to sugaring and buying new toys for the sugar house...some of us have the maple addiction as well.

[Fred Henderson]

Not all women are ogers when it comes to sugaring and buying new toys for the sugar house...some of us have the maple addiction as well.

Wow,my kind of woman.

[KenWP]

The pans probbably cost as much as my first pickup did I bet. The price of SS tubeing around here is $3.75 a pound and plate is $4 a pound how does that compare to prices in other places. At least I found a place that has the metal finally. he french word turned out to be Acier that I needed to know and the fellow even has barrels for sale.

[Cardigan99]

Woody?

Woody??

Uh Oh...

Hobbitmanor, other side of the lake from you.

[Maple/Cherry]

To KenWP, She may not notice the welder but when the lights dim when you use it, I think she will notice and catch you in the act.

[3rdgen.maple]

I always find it amazing all the new toys I can get for some syrup, hint hint.

[Woody]

Looks as though I'm headed to the bank to look into an SBA loan so I can start up my syrup business. She couldn't see the logic in spending that much money and diving into syrup making without a plan. No matter that we were able to sell every bit of last years syrup that we wanted to sell. I guess she thought I was kidding when ever since the end of last season I've been talking about expanding in 2010 and going it on my own with my own evaporator. The fact that I got permission to tap nearly every sugar maple in western wisconsin you'd think might have been a clue to something.

Oh well, I guess now I'll go for broke and write my business plan estimates to include a regular evaporator instead of a block structure, a 4 wheeler, sap hauling trailer and maybe a new but used F250, plus funding for taps, tubing and misc. All they can say is no and if that's the case I'll just tap what I did last year (135 taps) and cook it down again on my buddies cooker.

Teach me to communicate better, is there an on-line course for that????

Sincerly frustrated and needing to vent but not ready to give up..... anybody have suggestions or experience on this small business loan idea of mine?

[KenWP]

Well Woody survived at least. One thing you probbably need is expected returns on the operation plus the costs to get that return. I am used to Canadain tax structures where they look a 5 years to start breaking even and getting a return on investments. I have no idea what banks and such down there want or require to start a small business up.

[dschultz]

Woody I went to the bank to get a loan for my evaporator 3 yrs ago they gave me half of what I needed for it and the dealer backed me on the other half.Then I paid the dealer off the following season with the syrup I made.
Just a suggestion

[twobears1224]

WOODY:here we have a small business development center.it,s at one of the local colleges.i,am not sure if it,s country wide or not.but,you might wanta look into it.
they,ll help you setup a small business from start to finish.. i,am thinking about using them to get started in maple also.

delbert

[twobears1224]

the sbdc is country wide..heres the link.

http://www.sba.gov/aboutsba/sbaprograms/sbdc/index.html

alot of good info and help there.

delbert

[Woody]

Thanks for all the help. I stopped by the bank and got my financial sheet to fill out and they also want a 3 year business / sales projection sheet done. Seems like along the road in this process I'll be asked what my plan is in the event of a bad syrup year or if the product doesn't sell.
The bad syrup year well.....chock that up to ag. business, nature and life but as to the other, if the price is within reason, has anyone ever not been able to sell the syrup they've made?

thanks again,

[brookledge]

Woody
Have you considered a home equity loan? The nice thing about that is the interest is tax deductable. I bought my evaporator that way.
Keith

[maplecrest]

have you stopped by your county usda office? to inquire about an agriculture loan. here in vt they like sugar makers. but stopped taking loan aps here, too many have applied for this round. the money come in cycles. this spring was 2% on a 7 year loan..also they have crop insurance dead line has gone by for this year, like canada has. but in canada you have to be over the 4000 gal or pound mark?

[PARKER MAPLE]

So If Im Understanding This Right, A New Sugar Maker Get Get This Ag Loan To Start His Bussiness In Vermont For 2.25% On A 7 Year Loan, Under Some Surcumatances, Like Credit Score And Probebly Colatural?? This Loan Could Buy Him Things Like An Evaporator, Pipe Line Or What He Needs To Get Going, Correct?? Reason Im Asking Is I Just Found 19 Acres That Is A Very Very Reasonable Price Down Where Im Located In Southern Vt, And Im Pipe Dreaming About Buying It For Just Strickly Sugaring..

[maplecrest]

as i stated the money is gone for this round. and interest rates change. call yankee credit in white river jct. start there and they will help answer your questions, and help you get started.

[PARKER MAPLE]

THANK MAPLECREST I WILL PONDER THIS AROUND AND GIVE THEM A CALL IM SURE.. CAN WAIT TO TRY AND SLIDE THIS ONE BUY MY WIFE, LOL:lol:

[twobears1224]

WOODY WROTE:has anyone ever not been able to sell the syrup they've made?

yep,it,s happened.years ago everybody made some really nice fancy syrup and couldn,t give it away..thats how the lewis county maple coop got started. it,s only happened once that i know of in 30 plus years.

delbert

[red maples]

Look around on this site, and keep posting what you need, last year I tapped 25 trees and got a few gallons of syrup, on a block rig, and an 18 x 24 roasting pan started the way everyone else did then got the maple itch. It's like pioson ivy man the more you scratch the worse it gets.

So far I have spend 6,000 on a 2x6(used) 100 and 150 gal tank(used) and sugar house (that started out as shed and is now a small barn!!! (too small but built so I can add on to it next year but my wife doesn't know that yet)that will get done if it ever stops raining. and I still have to buy tubing, jugs, taps, hydrometer, etc etcetc probably about $1200+ left to spend!!!! Follow the advice these guys have, buy alittle bigger if you can... because in a few years you'll be buying more because you'll out grow it!!! I'd like a 4 wheeler but I have to foot it with smaller buckets for now until I can pay off some of this stuff.

oh yeah and my wife is pretty sick of hearing about maple this and maple that... your excitment does need to be let loose but thats what we're here for!!!!!
those blessed with wives that split and stack wood, and like to hear about the maple madness, are very luck don't loose those ones.

I can't wait to fire my new to me rig!!!! but lots of work to do yet.

have fun!!!

[aunt stellas gardens]

I'm a little confused about all the loan talk and we wives not supporting the new purchases. I/we have recently come in contact with the maple disease addiction and all I can think about is what can we do next to expand our current operation? But, this talk about needing small business loans is scary. How much cash does it take? I know this is a question that will vary depending on the size of your operation but what would you suggest be the next purchase for a family in the infant stages of maple syrup production. We have 24 taps, a 2x3 ss pan and alot of firewood. We also have the desire to do this for a very long time, this was one of the best new projects that we have ever started! Now everyone is asking when and if we are doing this again next year. What a blast.

[Dave Y]

well you guys arent the only ones done messing around. I orderd my new rig today! should be the last one I will ever need. Ha Ha! Thats what I have told my wife. Now the work begins!

[caseyssugarshack93]

Hey Dave, thats awesome you orderd a new rig, what did you end up getting the force 5 ?

[mapleack]

Good for you Dave! What size did you go with?

[KenWP]

I'm a little confused about all the loan talk and we wives not supporting the new purchases. I/we have recently come in contact with the maple disease addiction and all I can think about is what can we do next to expand our current operation? But, this talk about needing small business loans is scary. How much cash does it take? I know this is a question that will vary depending on the size of your operation but what would you suggest be the next purchase for a family in the infant stages of maple syrup production. We have 24 taps, a 2x3 ss pan and alot of firewood. We also have the desire to do this for a very long time, this was one of the best new projects that we have ever started! Now everyone is asking when and if we are doing this again next year. What a blast.

if you could add another small pan to your arsenal you would have okay small set up there. Boil the sap down in the 2x3 pan and then make the syrup in the smaller pan. I made 20 gallons of syrup with a 16x18 inch pan this year and am hopeing to triple that to 3 of those pans with flues on 2 of them. I should be able to do at least 9 gallons a hour instead of 3 gallons a hour. That should solve my maple bug for a couple of years.

[Dave Y]

Guys,
I ordered a 4x14 force 5. with the works. If I am going to make that kind of investment I should do it right!
Mapleack, If you guys haven't bought a new front pan yet give me a call I think I can help you.

[Woody]

Thanks for the tip Maplecrest. The USDA office is sending me an application so I'll give this a shot. They wanted 3 years of experience but I said I didn't have that but that I did have a boat load of enthusiasm......she sais fill it out anyway and send it in. Then they will set up a time for an appointment with a loan officer and there I guess they decide if I know enough to not be too much of a financial risk. Kind of exciting to think about and my wife is happy I'm doing my home work..........

Back to the SBA bank loan option.....how the heck would a guy do a 3 year profitability statement? They want to see that as part of the initial package. Is there a 'how to' or a guideline on how to do that anywhere you guys know of?

Thanks

[Dave Y]

Woody,
To do the profitability plan, You need to decide how many taps you are going to have and then decide conservatively how much syrup you think you should make of those taps. you will need to conservatively estimate the value of the syrup.Then you need to figure how much capital you will need to buy the equipment you will need to make that syrup. the good thing is a lot of the equipment is a one time purchase. that is about the best I can do for you. I was required to do a assets and liability sheet for my business loan.

[red maples]

Congrats dave!!! sounds exciting!!! My wife does understand the sickness!!! she has an art sickness!!! were just joking around!!!

Good luck Woody sounds like your on the right path

[Gary R]

Congratulations Dave, Let us know when you get it. I'd like to stop by and check it out. I drove by yesterday and didn't see a huge pile of wood. Looks like you'll be saving on the wood next year!

[PATheron]

Dave- How many gallons per hour does the evaperator do? I think thats the largest rig I can fit in my shed and Ive thought about going to that size down the road too. Theron

[Dave Y]

Theron,
This rig should do 250 -300 gph. I got hoods and a preheater also. should be in some time this fall.Haven't got the the delivery schedule yet. I have a lot of work to do. before it gets here. I have been slowed down a bit. Sunday I was splitting wood and smashed my left thumb w/ the wood splitter. I am on light duty for 2 weeks. pushed the thumb nail clean off and split open the nail bed got 4 stitches in that. I tried pick up wood to night couldn't do it.
Dennis, the attraction to the force 5 is the the amount of wood I wont burn.
If any one is interested in seeing one in action I will be demoing mine after I get it set up. And for those of you that would like to get one for your self I can set you up. I am a new dealer!:)