Volume of un-split vs split

[Snow Hill Farm]

Has anyone ever heard what the volume difference is between un-split and split wood? I cut my firewood into blocks in the woods and then transport to the sugarhouse where it's stacked in rows. Once I feel I have enough I start splitting and putting in the shed. It would be nice to know how the volume of the unsplit blocks compares to split, stacked pieces.

[KenWP]

If you split it small it should take up less room then unsplit as it's stacked tighter.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

My understanding is just the opposite. Since the pieces are smaller there are more air spaces (although smaller ones) and the total volume of the air spaces is greater thus the cord of block wood creates more than a cord of split wood. The extra air around it makes it dry better.

[KenWP]

I split the wood my missis stacks it since it allwasy falls down if I do it.

[BarrelBoiler]

A cord is a cord is a cord...... that said there are more pieces in a cord of small wood than in a cord of big wood

last fall i had alot of small firewood 4feet long to cut up. i made a rack to stack it in so i could cut alot at one time the rack was about 6feet log by 20inches high id fill it level with the top and make two cuts with my saw the top of the stack would drop four to six inches because the shorter pieces could fall together better smaller split sticks fit together better when stacked

wood on a truck you want a good mix of big and small stuff not to much of those twisty tops that create all sorts of air space or the knowleadge that a triaxle load of butt cuts might get you 9 cord as opposed to 7 with alot of tops

[Haynes Forest Products]

I used to do firewood out here in Colorado and I think if you took a cord of logs and split them you could get a con artist to stack that cord into 1 1/2 cord. I also have seen motivated people stack wood into a wood shed and cram it so tight that mice were having a hard time getting around. I think if you stack wood to keep the pile from falling over as fast as possible you will have a cord of wood with average air to wood ratio. I always put a little extra on the truck so I didnt get call backs and would tell a sceptical customer that I will wait till he stacks it and take any extra back.

next question what is weights more a yard of wet sand or dry sand

[3rdgen.maple]

My 2 boys can make a cord of wood into 3 cord when they stack it. Anybody want to buy some wood Free stacking included? Haynes is that like what weights more a pound of cotton or a pound of rocks?

[Haynes Forest Products]

3rdgen Out here a big firewood supplier in Castle Rock sold all his wood by weight and the news did a show about how selling by weight was better because of the BTUs and differant types of wood BLA BLA BLA about a week later that same TV news showed him spraying water from sprinklers over the wood piles at night.................OOPs State weights and mesures shut him down.

Now read again what weighs more "A YARD" of wet or dry sand and this is not a riddle I read it in a book on mesurments.

[maplesyrupstove]

a yard of dry sand 27 square feet ,weights 2700 pounds.Wet sand weights more, depends on how much water.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

cubic feet:)

[KenWP]

Next guestion which weighs more Hanynes or 3rgen.
I would imangine if a guy could buy dry firewood by weight it would lessen the confusion sometimes. I hate buying wood from some dealers as they must blow air into the stuff to plump it up.

[Rhino]

we sell our firewood by the face cord, (a pile 4 feet high, 8 foot long, 16 inch long pieces. up in northern Wi. we get $75.00 a face cord delivered. (well seasoned) funny how times change as far as how its used. years ago most of our customers bought to heat their homes, now... most customers are lake homes and cabin owners who want it for camp fires.

[SPILEDRIVER]

so whats a henweight?

[3rdgen.maple]

Haynes I understood the sand deal just adding my smarts to the thread and Ken as of 2 days ago doc put me at 197 pounds. Boy did we all really rob this thread.

[Haynes Forest Products]

3rdGen Your right Sorry so quickly I read that wet sand weighed less by volume because water is lighter and its surface tension holds the grains apart so you get less sand in a yard. Carrie on men

[Snow Hill Farm]

You all can rob my thread anytime, this has provided a lot of entertainmant for a couple of otherwise boring days at my real job!! Finally finished gathering and stacking my blocks last night and now have a lot of splitting to do!

[cropseyvillemark]

Many years ago I asked Dad the same question. He told me to find a block of wood that would just fit into a 5 gallon pail, I did. Then he said to split that block into firewood, I did. Then he said that if I could make those piaces of wood fit back in the pail I wouldn't have to split any more. Still splittin after all these years.

[KenWP]

Since I had to wait till I was over 50 to split wood since I grew up in a treeless enviroment I am to old to worry about it. I just make more piles and bigger piles and more bigger piles untill the woods split and stacked. I just have to learn to stack the stuff so that any pile over 2 foot high stands up for more then 30 seconds. I see driveing down the roads here people with these neat stacks of wood and wonder just how they do it and how long it takes.

[sapman]

I read in Adirondack Life years ago an article by a guy who did firewood to put himself through college. He said the best way to dry wood is to split it then pile it in a heap, not stacked. Does anyone/everyone agree with this? That's what I've been doing, and seems to work well.

Tim

[caseyssugarshack93]

what we do at home, is split it then it stays in a pile for a few weeks then we start to stack, I think stacking it right off would be best for drying so the air can get to all the wood, unlike it would if it was in a pile cause i know when i turn the pile over with the tractor the wood on the bottom is wet


just what i think

[Haynes Forest Products]

I think the longer the wood is stacked the bigger the wasp nest is that I always end up hitting. But then that could be just ME

[TapME]

I just wish that I had a dollar for every cord I ever touched. Could buy a new house, or a sugar bush. We stack ours as soon as it is split in the wood shed tight to the top. When we go and get it after it is dry there is 6 to 8'' to the roof. That same cord shrunk. The roof is 7'.

[C.Wilcox]

I read in Adirondack Life years ago an article by a guy who did firewood to put himself through college. He said the best way to dry wood is to split it then pile it in a heap, not stacked. Does anyone/everyone agree with this? That's what I've been doing, and seems to work well.

Tim

Tim,

I'll let you know how it works here. I got tired of trying to build level stacks of firewood on sloping ground so I started tossing it into a pile and leaving it. I don't make any extraordiinary efforts, but I try to make sure I criss cross the pieces as I go so that there's plenty of air space available around all of them. In theory it seems like it should work. Probably will take longer to dry than a nice row and it does take up more room, but sure cuts down on the hours spent stacking. On that note, I was fortunate to just get all of my next season's wood for the house and the sap cooking for free. A friend of mine bought a piece of property and told me to come over and get the firewood that was there if I wanted it. I ended up making two trips with the truck and trailer to get it all. All white oak, cut to length, stacked, and aged several years. Quite the score in my opinion.

[KenWP]

I find the wood stacked out side is dryer then the stuff stacked inside. But the dirt floor of the garage never dries out in there and when it rains enough a river runs through it also. I have to stack the wood nice as it would take up a lot of room other wise.

[Haynes Forest Products]

To me there is a differance between seasoned wood and dry wood. I have 3 year old wood that sits out side and gets wet and within 1 day of sitting inside the cabin its ready to go. I beleive that when the sap/resins dry out they react differant and that takes time.

[Maplewalnut]

I would agree Haynes, unless your talking red oak....that stuff takes about five years to season, with one year added on every time it rains

[hookhill]

We sell dry firewood and ours is winter/spring cut and then stacked in single rows in one cord increments. We are on a sunny windy ridge and our wood is pretty dry come fall. If you stack wood in the shade down in the valley it could take 4x as long to season it.

[peacemaker]

i am working on a plan for a kiln to dry my wood in tyhree days from green to burn

[3rdgen.maple]

Peacemaker are you gonna use green wood or dry wood to heat the kiln?:) I just noticed you are in Bennington. I use to service a printshop the called Paul Revere Printing. I installed a new press in there years ago. Beautifull country, Lots of covered bridges if I remember right and there was a pub in town that Brewed their own beer. Man they made the best steaks and Oatmeal stout. I miss that place.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Peacemaker I already do that we make a nice big fire in the fireplace and then we set the crappity wet green wood on the hearth and let it cure and it goes in next...................Patent Number 617278384985969:rolleyes:

[KenWP]

A lot of kiln where I come from burn hog fuel which is larger wood chips and they are damp when they go into the kiln.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One thing I had mentioned on here a few times before and will mention again is that if you put a few inches of gravel in the bottom of your woodshed, the wood on the bottom is about as dry as the wood anywhere else in the pile. This eliminates all moisture as long as you don't have water running thru the gravels and works tons better and is only a very small investment.

[Snow Hill Farm]

Update! After splitting my nice neat rows of blocks I have some answers to my own question I posted in this thread. Originally I had 4 tight rows of blocks that measured 8' x 30' x 4.75'= 1140 cu ft or 8.9 cords. After splitting and stacking I have a shed full (6.5' x 7.5' x22'= 1073 cu ft or 8.4 cords) plus an extra pile (4' x 4' x 20' = 320 cu ft or 2.5 cords) for a total of 10.9 cords. So from this limited experiment 8.9 cords unsplit turned into 10.9 split for a volume increase of 22%. I've had nothing better to do during all the rain this summer than figure this out!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Snow Hill Farm
I read your post and got a clue as to what happend. You mentioned that it has been raining all summer. did you do a moisture calculation on the wood before you split it and and then after you exposed the wood to the rain causing it to swell and expand increasing its size. I think you need to mesure the height of the wood in the shed and see how much it shrinks. After about 6 months of dry time you need to number, Remove and restack for the final conclusion.......................Its been raining here so I have way to much time on my hands as you can see.:lol:

[KenWP]

I think Hanyes should travel around the country and stack all our wood for use and keep records of volume and such. If he does a good job we will feed him.

[halfast tapper]

The reason you got an increase in your wood is because of air space. Blocks will create less air space in a stacked pile, and split wood will create more, thus more volume.
A cord of wood is a cord of wood no matter how many times you split it.

[Snow Hill Farm]

Obviously it's air space..... I just thought it was interesting to figure out the volume of split vs. un-split. The good news is that my firewood is finally done, better late than never!

[3rdgen.maple]

Too much time on your hands if you were trying to figure that one out:)

[red maples]

you got it air space is the key. generally when your talking about split cord wood most guys that process wood have there own way of measurement and usually go over just a little to make sure. they never want to under that 128 ft3 because then their customer feels cheated. I think if your measure volume of split vs. blocks its like comparing apples and oranges and you ned to ask an MIT student to figure that one out. As far as I know a cord, is a cord, is a cord. air space included. or another one is a pound of feathers vs a pound of rocks. similar comparison!!!! which has a greater volume the feathers but that has alot of air space.

[KenWP]

Around here they call a face cord a cord or run and a full cord a solid. I almost bought 8 cords of wood last year before I found it was 8 face cords instead.

[red maples]

what is a face cord? is it 4'x8' by length of a piece or a mertic equivalent. down here its 1/4 cord, 1/2 cord, cord...and a cord is 128 cubic/feet requardless of length. most people down here get 16" but I get 19" lengths for the wwod stove I would use 20" or 21" but it doesn't fit in the wheel barrel right and harder to split being I am the log splitter here. people think I am nuts but hey its a good workout done with wood for this year. 9 cords done split by hand. 4 cords hardwood 5 cords pine and the pine is sugaring which needs to be split smaller.

[KenWP]

Face cord is basically a 1/3 of a cord or half a cord if its in 24inch lengths but most cut it in 16inch lengths. A solid is 128 cubic feet. My neighbour told me he had 14 cord of wood piled behind the house and I knew he had to mean face cords because of the size of the pile. The other day he hauled home 1.5 cords of wood he sadi and it was just level with the sides of the pickup truck. I myself need close to 12 full cords of wood to heat for the winter plus the evaporator in the spring.

[3rdgen.maple]

A face cord is just what it sounds like you look at the face of the wood pile if it is 4 feet by 8 feet and not four feet deep it is a face cord. A full cord is 4 feet high 4 feet wide 8 feet long. If you ask anybody around me for a cord of wood you are gonna get a face cord. Stupid I know, I think it all came from the scam artist out there that snoockered people out of the money they payed when they bought a cord of wood and came home with half that. I might just start selling face quarts and not tell anybody.........

[KenWP]

Yes we will get flat bottles about a inch thick and sell syrup that way. They will be marked face quarts in some small cornor of the bottle and hopefully we have many new clients each year as the old ones go someplace else to buy.

[PerryW]

Face Quarts
contains 8 ozs


I love it!

[3rdgen.maple]

Alright Perry you gotta get it right though a face quart would be 16 ounces and 8 ounces would be a face pint. I think we all need some sap cause we are getting stranger and stranger the longer we wait. :lol:

[brookledge]

if you flatten the jug enough it could still look like a quart and hold 8oz. I kind a like that idea. Seems like every thing is trying to be packaged smaller and still sell for the same price. To me it is deceptive but everybody does it. Can't by half gallons of ice cream any more now it is 1.5 quarts. The list goes on and on. The consumer thinks they are getting a good deal when they here they are getting a cord for a good price when in fact they are only getting 1/3 of a cord.
Just curious for those that sell wood, You must need to have different prices for cords based on the length which I would think is confusing to the customer
Keith

[red maples]

you got it the list does go on and on. I have seen in the local paper guys selling wood that is 116 cu feet and 90 cu ft what is that. funny thing is its the same price as a full cord!!!! go figure. All I know know is I got all my wood done for the year it did cost a little...2 chains (DARN ROCKS) gas bar oil...and my chainsaw finally died!!!:cry: But got a new one didn't get the stihl just got the poulan but it works just fine!!!! :) all in total saved about 1100 - 1400 or so depending on what wood prices are... Last year put some new stuff on the wood stove new blower, new glass, gaskets and little hardware here and there. and didn't cut a single living tree(except 1 little hemlock that fell when I was cutting downa big dead oak. there are still a few more dead trees...saving them for next Year!!! and when those are done start to thin out a little to get better healthier woods!!!Hopefully more SAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!

[KenWP]

I use a Poulan now for small stuff as the other saw I had crapped out on me and that's what I got for warrenty. When I moved to Quebec I went to a chainsaw store and bought a MS170 Sthil to cut fire wood with a 14 ich bar. Got here and went out to cut fire wood and had all these huge dead sort of spruce trees plus all the downed cedars that are at least a foor thick or more. I soon went and got a bigger saw and then at a garage sale paid a $100 for a 2163 Jonsered that cuts just fine after I put the right spark plug in it and sharpened the chain.
I cut 13 cords of wood last year and have about the same down this year. Just have to get it cut to stove lengths and haul it in to the house.