pulley ratio question

[Rhino]

I have a universal rotary vac pump with a 12 inch pulley on it. I also have a coleman 10 horse generator that the power unit burned out but the motor is in great shape yet. I tore off the power unit and i want to fit the shaft with a pulley. what size would be the right size for this set up? thanks

[twobears1224]

first off,check the shaft on that motor.alot of generators have tapered motor shafts and it would be hard to mount a pulley on it.
also does your vacuum pump have a tag showing the best rpm for it?? or do you know what you want it to run??

heres a link that should be helpful http://www.baumhydraulics.com/pages.php?pageid=4


delbert

[Haynes Forest Products]

When it comes time to mount the pullys DONT try and fit some set screw cheap pully off a washing mashine. If the shaft is taperd most times they are a longer shaft so just mount the pulley hub closer to the engine case. To many times people use cheap low HP pullys with one belt and they end up putting to much side torque on the pump and engine to keep the belts from slipping. Use 2 belt minimum.
I have a 9 HP on my Massport and I only need to run it at above idle just in the lower power band of the engine so consider very carefully what the RPMs of the pump is and work up or down from there. Some DIRECT drive pumps dont take kindly to belt and pully setups.

[Rhino]

h aynes, i looked on the pump for tags. there was one on top. brass colored. just said universal vac pump, patent number, and to use vac oil only. stamped on bottom was masport senior. i see you use one of these. what rpm do you run your pump at? what kind of performance can i expect from this pump. seems like its grabbing air every bit of the pulley rotation. lots of volumne??? the 10 horse motor will run around 3400 rpm. no throttle since its off a generator. can a person idle these down somehow? when it worked it ran 9 hours on the above 5 gal. gas tank. also it does have a long shaft that is tappered at he end. once i had the power unit off, i cut back part off so about 3 inches of shaft stuck out and put unit back on so the shaft is stable again. would really like to utilize this motor. thanks

[tuckermtn]

hopefully parker will reply- he has run masport sr.s before- but I don't think it was gas...the surge piston pumps (sp-11's) run slow- 400 rpm's ish- I think I have a 3" sheave on my motor end (electric 1 hp)

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rhina I run the smallest pully I could on the engine. You can only go so small with the hub and pully type set up. Its about 4" and my pump pully is about 14". I run my pump at just above Idle. I made a pully tensener to act as a clutch so I can warm things up before engaging the vac pump. If I increase the RPMs I get a little higher HGs but alot more heat and gas consumption for very little benifit. The pump works well at low RPMs. Send me your email and Ill send pics of the beast.

[Rhino]

had my brother do some rpm conversions. at 3400 rpm on the engine with a 2 inch pulley, 12 inch on the masport, he came up with 566 rpm on the pump. with a 3 inch on the engine it jumps up to 850 rpm on the pump. would the pump handle the 3 inch or would i smoke it out? I know i read a surge sp11 piston handles around 400 rpm but this is a rotary. can these take more abuse????

[lpakiz]

I bought an SP-11 with tank and motor. I have a digital RPM guage and my pump shaft runs 530 RPM.

[vermaple]

I know very little about Universal Masport Pumps, I have a Masport Major pump that I have never used and I looked at the tags on the pump and found the following information. With a 3HP motor on it use a 12.25" pulley on the pump and a 2.65" pulley on the motor. I take this info to mean that this is a relatively low speed pump about 378 RPM.

You might toast the pump in a short while at speeds much higher than that, heat would probably be a huge factor.

[KenWP]

It's to bad these pumps just don't say how much vacuum to run them at and then you could adjust speed to conform to the recommended vacuum. Beats trying to configure pulleys.

[Haynes Forest Products]

KenWP the problem with the reverse engenering starting with the vacuum is the veriables that effect vacuum. I trashed a DeLaval from high speed causing to much heat then melting the oil line OOPs. The rotery vane dairy pumps will pull higher vacuum at low RPMs you just need to keep them cool. I run my gas pump as slow as possible and get great HGs and lower temps the problem is the motor needs to run in its power band and that is above idle. A few times my pump quit/stalled after warm up and running for 10 minets it just quit so I have to keep the RPMs at a certain level.
Once you acheve high vacuum in your sap lines there is no reason to over heat your pump trying to get high CFMs. It sounds crazy but if you get nice steady vacuum (24) at a low RPM then over heating the pump and blowing alot of oil mist from the exhaust burning up gas just for 2 more HGs.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rhino How does the pump get oil if you dont have ports on the bearings? When I got my Massport it had a impulse set up that pushed oil to the bearings from a bottle upside down on the top of the pump. I removed all the impulse parts and hooked my oil lines there.You could recirculate the oil back into the pump from a holding tank that the exhaust air/oil goes into. As others have suggested Northern tool has hydrolic oil tanks they sell that would work great. you want to have the oil enter the tank high and then suck the return oil out the bottom port. The bigger the tank the more oil will settle out before the air goes out into the open air.
I have been wondering if a guy could make a oil reclaimer out of a oil bath air cleaner not a VW but a big old dozer or semi truck. If you look at the element they are a metal mesh that oil sticks to and drips into a pan. If you were to have a return line off the bottom of the oil pan it would go back to the vacuum pump??????????

[vermaple]

Haynes,

That is basically how a flood system works. A large capacity oil reservoir on the exhaust side of the vacuum pump as a oil reclaimer and a large dry filter on the exhaust side of the reclaimer. A 1/4" oil line runs to the pump intake side, so the oil is drawn into the pump with the vacuum.
I've run this system for 5 years with no problems on a DeLaval 76 vacuum pump. I usually try to maintain 21-22" of vacuum.
This pump is rated at 30 cfm w/ a 3 HP motor at 935 RPM and
20 cfm W/ a 2 HP motor at 740 RPM.
I have switched to a 2hp motor as a backup (during a breakdown) and I had to drop back to 19-20" due to the pump being noisy. I think that was due to the tightness of my system. The pump struggling to maintain 22" of vacuum with 20 cfm.

However the flood system has worked well for me as I'm off the grid and don't have a heated area for a liquid ring pump. The exhaust area shows no signs of oil discharge after running for 5 years.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Vermaple Mine is also a flood system. I was replying to a PM with Rhino and he is in the planning stages of setting up a similar pump. I flood my pump thru the bearings and the intake at the port ware the inpulse was attached.
You said that your unit gets noisy under heavey vacuum in your tight system your not moving many CFMs. Could your vanes be warn and rattling. This is the first year with this pump on my setup and it worked great but it does get noisy when I go up in RPMS trying for 28HGs so I tone it down. I start getting that sound that a dry ball bearing makes. I know Im getting plenty of oil I just dont want to trash this pump.

[Rhino]

haynes, when i got this pump there was no impulse parts with it. the two oil ports above the bearings had the lines snapped off. I will remove these, will there be any vac pulling through these? also on top of pump there is that 3/4 inch threaded hole. I know that will have vac. do you feed oil in that for the rotary vane? if I can make this work with a large resivoir over the top of the pump, and catch the blow out oil and keep it clean and just keep filling it with the recycled oil that would be great. thats how i am running my surge alamo but that dosnt have those 2 bearing port holes.also i wonder if this universal is going to be more oil hungry than the alamo? thanks

[KenWP]

Do these vacuum pumps have a glass window gizmo that you can see the oil drip through to the pump by any chance or is that just on honey wagons. For the vane pumps on honey wagons we ended up useing hyrdaulic oil because it never got to thick in cold weather.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Ken,
When the dairy pumps are used for dairy, they often have that sight glass so you can regulate the flow of oil to the bearing. I'd guess it isn't necessary in a maple application as you are putting a much larger volume of oil through the pump.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rhino/KenWP When these pumps are used for dairy they are low vacuum and dont run 24/7 so small drippers worked well. Now were trying to turn them into race cars.
Rhino your pump sounds just like the one Im useing and yes you will get suction at the bearing ports. On the pump you have the 3/4 port caused a pulsating diafram to pump small amounts of oil into the bearing caps and that oil was then spun/sucked into the vanes and into the cylinder. I know people that run those pumps with drippers for sap but they say 18 HGs is ok and they use vacuum regulators. NOW me on the other hand I run my pump well past freeze up and dont have a vacuum regulator and with my set up.

Rhino I wouldnt put the tank above the pump because when the pump runs out of gas it will fill the pump and be a problem. I think its best if the pump sucks the oil into the return lines and let gravity help with the oil reclaiming. I dont have to transfer oil from the reclaimer to the supply tank its recirculates and that saves me time and the OOPs factor.

[vermaple]

Haynes,
I just reread what I said and I was not very clear. What I really meant to say was lack of tightness, I think that the 20 cfm at the lower RPMs was causing the rattle due to overload. (My system was moving to much air)

[Haynes Forest Products]

Vermaple that makes more sence. I was surprised how small of a pump when it comes to HGs you can use on a good tight system. your right when I think about my set up everything tends to work better under load and vacuum less shake rattle and roll.

[Rhino]

Haynes, thanks for the info. Going to start project asap. will let you know how it works without it being "on line".

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rhino remember we all love to see pictures of others work in progress plus as you can see Im always ready to give my opinion:rolleyes: