Any Electricians in the house

[markY]

I have been using a generator to run a 1 1/2 hp 240v pump to pump sap from my collection tanks. My run is 1500' with 90' in elevation. Its a great pump I move 450-500 gallons a hr.This does work, but I would like to simplify things and it would be nice to turn pump on and off from the sugar house.My question is can I run power down to the tanks from the sugar house by running a line with 480v's to a transformer down at the tanks the transformer then converts power from 480v to 240v to run the pump. What size wire to run? Can this be done? Some one gave me this idea and I am researching it. Let me know what you all think about this?

[3rdgen.maple]

I guess i might be a little confused but where are you gonna get 480volts from without a transformer to get it. Why would you want to convert 240 to 480 back to 240 to run the pump? It is the amperage that you will lose in the length of the run not the volts. Of course the heavier the wire you run the less loss of amperage. I think it might be alot cheaper to get a 110 volt motor and run a heavy 110 volt line to the new motor. I would steer away from any electrical cords as they tend to heat up under extreme loads. HP's are HP's regardless of the voltage that supplies the motor. I could be wrong here but I would look further into it before I ran that 480 volt line.

[Mark]

I run a 1 1/2 hp goulds pump with 2800 feet of 4/0 aluminum at 240 volts.
If I put a volt meter on it when starting I can hardly see a drop.

Google for voltage drop calculator.
If you multiply ohms resistance x current= equals voltage drop.
1000 feet of 4/0 al is .1 ohms so 3000 feet is .3 ohms.
.3 ohms x 10 amps = 3.3 volts drop running at 10 amps but starting would be higher.
If you go with 240 volts you only have to measure the distance one way but with 120 you have to measure both ways. And don't forget that at 120 volts the current is double.
So with 240 you can go four times farther than 120.
Also some pump motors are rated down to 208 volts.

My pump station also has cat 5 cable running to it, I can run relays to start and stop pump, run motorized valve to drain line, turn on heater and transmit video from a camera.

It worked perfect this year but I am not an electrician, just an aircraft mechanic.

[tuckermtn]

MArk- and it sounds like you stayed at a holiday inn express last night...


sounds like a nice set-up

[upsmapleman]

You have a set up very much like mine. I have 1500 ft. with a 100 ft. of rise. I have a 1/2 hp. submersible pump in the tank. I ran a #10 wire from my sugar house to a box at the tank. From this I took a leg off to have 110 so I could have lights. I then put a float switch in tank so that the pump turns off and on auto. This pumps about 7 to 8 gallon a Minute (420 to480 gallon a hr.)The loss of voltage is small. Submersible pumps were designed for long line runs so they will work if you have some loss. If you want to shut it off at the sugar house throw the breaker.

Upsmapleman,

Dale

[sapman]

MarkY, if you actuallly had 480v 3-phase available, you'd be in great shape, as you can run a LONG way on 3-phase. I would think you could get by on less hp, if you are using a submersible pump. I know a 1/2hp will go like 2000' or more on #12 3-phase, but would need to look at specs on larger pumps.

Tim

[KenWP]

What do you do with the 1500 feet of sap in the line by the way. Has to drain some place or do you like it to freeze and eventually you have to carry it by hand to the sugar house do you not.

[markY]

I drain the line back to tanks everyday. I save about 50 gallons in my upper tank and pump it last that way I leave only fresh sap in the tank every day. I then dump the last 50 gallons on the ground at the end of the season. I used bring it back on the 4 wheeler everyday but that is way too much work and not worth it to me. so this Works fine this way. Thanks also for all the info. Looks like I could run 10/2 wire on 240v and I should be fine. The pump draws 7.6 amps at 208v and start up amps are 8.9. Am I right on this?

[upsmapleman]

I think you will be just fine with that set up. I used a 10 amp double breaker in my sugar house. My lines are 3 ft. under ground. I drain my line every day and haul the last up at the end of the day. Hauling 100 gallon at the end of the day beats hauling 5000 all day.

Upsmapleman,

Dale

[Brent]

If you've got a good line supplying the motor now and you just want to add remote start/stop, then get a magnetic starter with a 110 volt coil in it and mount it beside the motor.
Run a very small inexpensive 110 v line from the top down to the magnetic contactor. You could likely use a wire as small as 18 or 22 G. Put a start / stop switch at the top. The coil that pulls in the contactor only draws a tiny fraction of an amp so the wire can be very small and inexpensive.

The contactor will pull in the 220V contacts to run the motor. The contactor will likely come with it's own start stop pushbuttons so you will have control at both ends.