June journal

[3rdgen.maple]

Okay guys had to step on some toes but I started the June journal without you.

Got alot done this weekend. Put in 4 cords in the sugarhouse. Did some nonmaple tree trimming out of a new section of my woods to tap next year. Gotta cut in a tractor path yet And did some maintenance on the tractor. Still not sure what sections of maple I want on vac next year. Couple questions for you guys. What is the smallest size tree do you guys tap without harming it? And for the smaller ones would the 1/4 inch taps be better for them? Im sure sap levels would be less but I want the trees alive. I'm slowly losing some of the big old maples. Plenty of trees just gotta spend time in the woods doing some select cutting. Want to get some of the different age class maples some breathing room.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

3rdgen,
Personally, I have been going down to 8 inch diameter trees if they are healthy. I monitor the tapholes as they heal to see how rapidly it occurs. If they heal rapidly, they get tapped again, if not I can just leave the spout capped for a season.

I am starting June off in an apartment in Queens. Visiting my daughter and grandkids. Hope to visit a shop or 2 later today somewhere in this city with the hopes of creating an outlet for Maple Syrup. Wish me luck, I am no salesman.

[Jim Brown]

Well we finally got to pay back a little of the great help we recieved from some good friends during syrup season this spring. Saturday evening we took them and there wives out for a steak dinner w/all the trimmings. If it were not for these great guys we would not have been able to get through this year. Our heart felt thanks go out to them!!
A wise person told me some time ago that as you grow older you don't count how much money you have you count how many friends you have. They are worth more than all the money! He was correct.

Jim

[KenWP]

Hard to get much done here right now. Keeps raining and the bush is wet. Takes me a while to cut wood as I am on my own and the cedars are so thick they don't fall and I have to pull the bottoms out until the tops free to hit the ground. The bigger ones are really hard as I can't lift them in order to pull them out. Also they have so many branchs to trimm and with them laying up in piles from the wind a guy has to sort of do one at a time.
I am still planning my addition to my evaporator to increase my boiling capacity. I want to at least tripile it from 3 gallons a hour or I will have to cut back taps a lot next spring.

[Paddymountain]

I'm ready to start working on the secondhand evaporator we bought in April.
I have the front tore off , and need to make a run to the steel shop to get
some angle iron for the doorframe and 1/4 in plate for the doors. I'm planning on making it airtight and use two 2x4 box tubing, one on each side for above the fire forced draft. I'm going to postpone building a bigger sugar shack until I see how this all works out next spring .I have my two gardens planted ,and am building an addition onto my carport. don't know when I'll cut wood , I guess I'll squeeze it in sometime!!!

[Gary R]

Jim, thanks for that dinner. We appreciate your thoughtfulness. I think Primo Barron's is the finest place around.

I've started redoing my arch. Adding air over fire. Also will build a parallel flow preheater. I've also found a few sugars close by. I should have more sugars than reds next year. Also have been opening the canopy up. Some day maybe my woods trees will have great crowns:)

[Sugarmaker]

Gary, Jim and All,
Good to hear guys are out and about. We are going to have a maple picnic June 28 (I think) at Jan Woods maple museum in Edinboro . Come one come all.
Eric helped me stack wood tonight after he got home form down by Mercer with his new dog, a Fiest which will hopefully be a good squirrel dog!

Gary reading the post on air over fire has me thinking!:)

Regards,
Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

Hey Ken those trees that get hung up when you cut them down are called WIDOWMAKERS be carefull and make sure you tell somebody where you are It is a dangerous working around trees like that.

[KenWP]

I know 3rdgen I ran into a few problems last year with them. Cut down a old elm and when I went to push it over the top that had broken off and was caught up in the cedars beside it came down and rapped me on the head a good one and then hung up and stopped instead of going all the way to the ground so I just got a good headache and a sore neck . Somebody does look after me somedays.

[KenWP]

Couple of weeks ago I gave a fellow some syrup to try so I could get a opinion from a real Quebecious if it is edible. His wife now wants me to tap her trees next year. I take that as a positive that it's edible. They figure there is more then 200 trees to tap over there. I might have to improve my boiling capacity a bit to cover that many trees.
I better cut more wood looks like and get working on that evaporator a little harder.

[3rdgen.maple]

Hey ken I think if you bought a bright shiny new 3x8 with a big ole flue pan somehow you would manage to outgrow that by next season at the rate you are going. Im thinking you might want to scrap the hole idea of improving what you have and get a 12 x 60 footer!!!!!

[PATheron]

BIGSAP ALERT!!!! BIGSAP ALERT!!!!- Sorry wrong time of year, just a test of the emergency BIGSAP system. Got to make sure Im ready for next spring. Been working on my stuff. Looks like Im off work for a while so things are really happening on the maple syrup stuff. Did a bunch of work on my tanks at the sugarhouse. Jacked them up higher to get more pitch on the outlet plumbing and got that all secured real nice. Also ran all the lines into the top of them on wire so thats a lot nicer than flipping pipes around. Pulled up my mainlines tighter at the shack too to get a nicer fix on them. Been working across the road putting a bunch of mainline on wire that got put in on the quick last year. Thats all done and now Im running new main over there to some taps that were just on 5/16. Overall just making some nice improvements. As soon as I run the rest of the main across the road Im going to start at one end of the system and just go through the whole works just finetuning everything. Im going to pull all the mains a little tighter, check grade, split up lats, etc, etc. Also Ive been working in my young stand removing some more of the culls and just kind of weeding the garden for my sugar maples. Things are good in Theron's sugar woods. Hope everyone is having a great summer. Theee( wish those dang kids would quit doin so much huntin and fishin so I could get something done)rooon

[Gary R]

Sugarmaker,

Thanks for the heads up on the Maple Associations picnic. I just checked the website and it's there. Should we bring anything?

Anyone who has the chance, come see Jan Woods' Maple Museum. The barn is about 60' X 80' and FULLl of maple stuff.

Brick are drilled. It was easy:) Should get my fathers MIG back this weekend. Then I can make my air over manifold.

[Revi]

I just plugged all our taps into the little plugs. I pulled them in April, but just got around to it. It's been hectic. I cleaned the evap out right after the season, but the plugging of the taps took a little longer.

We want them to heal up really fast, so we get the taps out and the trees can get started. After 2 years you can't even find the old tapholes.

We already have a lot of our wood ready, so the preparation for the 2010 season is well underway.

[KenWP]

Spent the day looking for things to build into maple equipment. Got some copper tubeing and a container to filter syrup into. I also found another pan to remodel into my updated evaporator. Was also sunney and warm today so I went and visited anothe Maple Trader and checked out his operation.

[PATheron]

Been working every day in my sugar bush. Got some real nice line put in across the road now. Only thing left to do over there is some mainline connections and some drops and saddles. When I get all done this year I should have all the lines the way I want them and Ill get a real good tap count. Going to lose some taps in the cull tree stand becouse Ive cut some more of those trees to keep opening the woods up and making it nicer for the best trees. Adding some taps too so should even out. Hopefully by season Ill have improved all the things that gave me some pain in last season. Got permission pretty much to put another 1100 taps acoss the road if I want to next year which I might do for the season after this one. I could do it now but I want to wait and see what kind of money syrup brings next year before I spend anymore serious money and also I want to get my current setup really perfect before I do anymore. Other thing is I want to see how easy things are with my current system with a second high pressure vessel on my R.O. before I try to get anymore sap. Last year did kind of suck not being able to keep up with the sap all the time. Have to be equiped pretty good to try to make that much syrup and work full time in town. Hope everyone is having fun, sugar season will be here before you know it. Theron

[tuckermtn]

Mark and I measured for the wood shed addition yesterday and I made a trip to the lumber yard...wood prices are pretty low these days (very evident in the low prices mills are paying for logs) so we should be able to frame and roof the 12 x 20 wood shed addition for $700-800. plan on setting up a wood cart on V-groove casters and a track for getting the wood to the evap.

finally getting the firewood processor set up and hopefully bust up some cordwood this afternoon...

then its back on the hunt for the RO...

[Sugarmaker]

tuckermtn,
Addition sounds nice to keep the wood close and dry. We have been using two of the $80 four wheeled wagons (from Lowes or Tractor supply) to shuttle wood in from the wood shed to the evaporator. They work very well and easy to maneuver.
Happy building!
Regards,
Chris

[brookledge]

I picked up a nice 1500 gal ss bulk tank over the weekend. I had been using multiple tanks for raw storage so it will help me alot.
Keith

[SPILEDRIVER]

ive been scrounging and searching for pieces and parts to build a new evap.just bought a 2x3 flat pan to go with the 2x2 syrup pan ive got so that will be my "finish" evap.ive allso got a 30X36 syrup pan off a old 2.5 im gonna set up on another fire box to boil and pre heat to feed the 2x3,gonna run um in tandem.bought the fire brick and ive got all the tin,just gotta pick up some steel and ill be ready to start building.bought a bunch of new sap bucketts and new tubeing as well.wife and son are gone in july for 2 weeks so ill have lots of time with no intteruptions to build them,im gonna love every minute of it!!!!

[Sugarmaker]

Making Maple Mustard and Maple BBQ to stock the shelves and for local sales event over the forth of July. The maple really smells good boiling!

Dragging home a truck load of pallets every day. They are starting to pile up around the place. I would like to get 10 solid cord of those for syrup next spring.

Hey GaryR, how are you doing on the Air over fire system?

Eric has been helping split fire wood with me and we have about a cord and a half yet to split. Cheryl took some pictures and I will try to post them.

Dave 3%, no I have not started the EEU:( I think I need some tools like a 6 foot brake, and a a torch set at minimum.

Grandson number one, Nic, graduated from Northwestern High School last week, he will be going to school to be a electrician. Grandson number two, Mike, graduated from 8th grade today. Granddaughter Marly is cute as a button at two years (going on 16). Grandson number three Dorsey is coming to visit this weekend from Columbus for Nic's graduation party. Oh Yea and was just informed by Kelly that we will be grandparents again too maybe about the time we start to tap in 2010. I like this grandpa (PAPA) stuff:)

Regards,
Chris

[Jim Brown]

Congrats Chris! This Grandpa stuff is Great. FOR SURE!!!:)

Jim

[Gary R]

Chris,

Congratulations! With all those kids to spoil, I don't how you get your maple done:) . It sounds like we may not hear that you've run out of wood again:lol:

Air over fire is done. I have to rebuild stack base and finish pre heater. I have pictures on my thread "new guy's rig" in homemade section.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=3621

I think this is how to direct you?

[KenWP]

I have two grandkids myself but have never seen them in person and most likely never will as they live in a different part of the world then me and it allwasy seems like two trains on different tracks on getting together. Havent seen my daughter herself in 8 years either.
Slowly finding parts to fix this evaporator but its a slow process so far. I have to stop by a Location store and ask if they rent greenlee punchs one of these days. Ebay has lots of them cheap but everybody uses Paypal on there now and I don't use that so can't buy one.

[Paddymountain]

Chris , congrats on the grandkids, I have number 4 on the way due to arrive in October, she will make 2 boy & 2 girls. Like the wife said, if I would've known it was going to be like this, we would have skipped having kids, and went right to the grandkids!!!Hauled some white pine logs out of the woods last night, the bandsaw mill comes on Saturday. We are sawing siding for the sugar shack (next years project)

[Sugarmaker]

Cheryl agrees that grandkids are part of the reward of having kids!
Thanks guys!
Gary I need to go find the pictures thanks for the link. How much wood do you plan to save? 25%

Rounding up some molds for the candy machine:)

KenP try to go see those grand kids I am sure you would be pleased with them!

Regards,
Chris

[Amber Gold]

I got my money back from the vacuum pump that went AWOL during shipping. Found another liquid ring pump which made it to my doorstep. Pump's pretty much new and came with a new motor, which is great except it's 3 phase. I didn't think it ask...assumed it was going to be single phase. Not sure what I'm going to do about that, maybe put a new motor on it.

[KenWP]

Maybe you can trade around on here with somebody else.

[KenWP]

The saw mill down the road has a scrape pile of metal from repairs and such and found a bit of plate steel I can use for my evaporator updates. Some of the peices are rather large to carry out of there but will figure it out some how. Anybody have any ideas what to do with bandsaw blades a foot wide.

[Parker]

was in the sugar house friday morning trying to avoid the rain,,,got a start on organizing the wood shed,,cleaning up some odds and ends,,,I have hauled about 8 cords home,,,probably have 35?? in the yard,,hard to say,,,need to start working it up and getting it under cover,,,I think I have 8-9 cords in the shed now,,,,,have not visited any of the woods yet this season,,,,going to be expanding a littel in Hill,,,,stil need to get my pans off the arch and my overfire air buit,,,BIGBLOWER mods. taken care of,,,,lots to do,,,,but it is fun work

[tuckermtn]

Mark, Dave and I spent most of the morning setting posts and plates for the woodshed addition...then I pulled the alum. roofing off the orig. sugarhouse and put some T & G pine under the alum. roofing to help with condinsation. Plan is then to pour a floor under the old woodshed and put some walls up to make a kitchen and then hopefully an RO closet. Time and money will see if that happens...

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Finished getting in the wood for 2010 about a month ago. Have aprox 8 cords of about all red oak and locust and most of it is several years old and well seasoned. Work is too busy this time of year to get much sugaring done or even get on the trader. Hopefully it will slow down soon so I can get back at it. All the tubing was washed and tanks were cleaned a couple months ago. Still need to boil out the evaporator and then start working on improvements for 2010.

2010, that just doesn't sound right, look right on paper, or roll of the tongue???

[brookledge]

Today was a rainy day in the morning so I began cleaning my evaporator. Had other things to do in the afternoon so I'll finish the flue pan another day.
Keith

[KenWP]

Found the perfect SS container at a garage sale to filter syrup into. The guy wanted 75 bucks for it which included the two dead dried up rats inside the thing. Too bad as it even had a orfice at the bottom of it. I also found a big crean can that had to be in the best shape I have even seen one in. For some reason somebody had kept used motor oil in it which explained the lack of rust inside or out on it. I don't get many breaks it seems.

[Dennis H.]

Well today I sold my 1st bottles of syrup!!

My sister is a postmaster at a local post office and people were asking WHEN I was going to sell some of my syrup stash. So I said what the heck and sold a few pints.

I also posted a flyer on the community bullentin board at the post office also. I am going to place a flyer at the local bank this week too.

I don't have a lot of syrup to sell but I figure while it is in peoples minds that I have and am ailling to sell some syrup that they will call for some syrup and if I have no more than I can get thier name and phone number for next year.

Besides selling I have been out cleaning up the woods at my dads cabin where there is a grouping of sugar's that I will be tapping this coming season. I got one heck of pile of pine that I cut out I just now need to cut to length and split, I'd say about 80% of the pine was standing dead so it should be ready to go for next season.

Besides that not much else going on here, just enjoying a little slow time while I can!:lol:

[mountainvan]

I finally finished splitting the wood the wood in front of the saphouse yesterday. I have roughly 16 cords stacked a one in a pile. Now to get the trees that blew down in February. I've been keeping the shelves stocked, have to bottle medium today and make sugars today, and have been busy with the markets. I start the my third one this week which means one less day for fishing, but expansion into a new area. It may take awhile, but I expect to build up a good following there.

[Maplewalnut]

Been struggling to get wood split and finished up with all the darn rain we have been having. But should be able to finish in the next few weeks. Then I have to tackle all the pole size lumber I cut out last December to try and open up stands a little bit. Probably not as thinned as it should be but its just so hard to cut down maple trees! My younger son blesses himself before we put a round on the splitter, now theres respect.

Otherwise, going to look at a milk tank this weekend and pick up some more jugs and I guess some more rolls of tube while I'm there.

Dennis-congrats on the sales. I know a lot of guys don't want to be bothered with retail sales but we enjoy meeting people and having them come back time and again for more syrup. Seems a little more rewarding then putting in a dark, cold barrel. But then again its one of the few perks of staying a small producer.

Mike

[KenWP]

I could get into selling maple syrup and other farm produce as I am a people person but my missis suffers from agriphobia I think it's called and dosn't leave home for weeks at a time if then so I would be on my own trying to sell stuff. I used to do between 150 and 200 meetings a year until I tired out and moved to eastern Canada to get a less stressfull life and then decided to make maple syrup. I probbably will have to stay small for a while untill I can figure out how to get federation approval and just sell bulk.
Started to work on the evaporator improvements today fianlly. Just have to figure out how big I am going to build it and how much money I want to not spend.

[PATheron]

Sounds like you guys are "getten er done". Ive been kind of an embarrassment to the maple syrup society. I did magage to get a couple three hundred taps finetuned pretty nice before the kids got out of school but now were kind of goofing off with summer vacation. I need to do a bunch of wood and finetune a lot of lines but Im in pretty good shape anyway with no major things Im up against this year. Just never happy unless everything is perfect. Ill have to get my maple syrup fix from hearing about your guys's stuff for a while. Hopin next year I can do the next sugarbush but Ill have to see how it goes. Everything is expensive and timeconsuming. Thats o.k. makes it satisfying. Theron

[sapman]

I checked the woods for the first time in a month or so. Sugar maple side is all good, but the swamp maples have some problems. Four trees down on three different sections of mainline, all red maples. Hope this won't be a trend! Would you guys repair/tighten these lines now, or just get the trees off and leave slack for now? I'm thinking the latter.

Tim

[tuckermtn]

Tim- any sense on how Maple Harry's season was?

you should update your signature...if I remember correctly your a bit beyond 500 buckets these days...

[brookledge]

Tim
Get the trees cut off the mains now and worry about tightening them later. When the plastic gets real hot it will have the tendency to stretch and not contract once the tree is cut.
Keith

[Cardigan99]

Not even summer yet and I'm seeing a few red leaves here and there. Anyone else seeing this? Wondering what effect this weather is going to have on sugar levels next year.

[PATheron]

Cardigan- Is it dry there?, is that what you mean with the red leaves? Got some maple done yesterday. Took time to clean the sugarhouse up better and also clean up the evap quite a bit better. Looks a lot nicer. Pressure washed the floors and also fired up the evap for a little while just to kind of keep the moisture dryed out of the rig. Always seems to be a lot that should be done. Thinking seriously now about moving the semi tanker up to the sugarhouse. I think I will contact a friend with an excavator and see if he wants to do it. Would make a much better fix if it was right at the house. Better for cleaning and also a lot less pumping etc. Need to automate and make easier every part of the process that I can. Hope everyone is having fun. Theron:)

[Revi]

It has been raining a lot around here. Fine by me, because I am still indoors at a conference. We planted some maple trees and we haven't needed to water them thanks to all the rain. We planted 10 reds and 11 sugars by the Superintendent's office of MSAD 54. They seem healthy and happy. 4 of them were bare root, so they needed the rain.

We planted them with the students, so it would be great if they all get started nicely. There are some huge maples there that we looked at as we planted them. I told them that they planted are the replacements and that in 100 years the trees they planted will be 50 inches in diameter also. I figured that at about 1/2 inch growth per year.

[Cardigan99]

Theron, cold and rainy most of the month. Rainy days have had lows in the 40s and not much above 60 during the day. Kind of early Octoberish but wet.

[3rdgen.maple]

Cardiggan same thing here also. Not alot but there are trees around that are showing colors of the wrong season. Cold nights, and below average daily temps here too. I would have to say rainfall is pretty much normal. The wind though has been particuarly rough this year so far. Seems like atleast 3 days a week are very windy. Been doing alot of tree scouting on my property and I am betting I could get 1500 to 2000 taps in If I so desire. Slow but sure is the plan. Been doubleing tap counts past 2 seasons and plan on doing the same this year as well. Looking for the big 600.

[KenWP]

I have trees with red leaves also. Dosn't help with the frost we got up to the end of May. Had a few fruit trees that had their leaves froze off and they are just regrowing them again.
Slowly getting things done up for next year. I have almost everything thought out except how to weld a peice of steel with out a welder.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Lot of rainy days in the 40's and 60's speaks of very low sugar content for the upcoming season as the trees are not making much sugar without sunlight.

[Sugarmaker]

Busy mowing yard and adding to the wood piles.

Also lots of activity with the bees. I have had 5 swarms that I have captured from my hives within the last week. One swarm went to cousin Dave and the other 4 will be combined to make two new colonies. Hear are some swarm pictures.
It was unusual to have two swarms in the same tree at the same time. Dave came over and helped capture them last night. 20% of the large swarm was still clustered on the out side of the box that I tried to get them in last night.

Chris

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Been a busy week. Well week plus. Had some good help for 3 days last weekend and started putting up wire and tube for a new bush. Should pick up about 400+ nice taps. I tapped part of it 5 years ago with buckets and it ran 3% plus for the whole season. Got 6500 feet of wire up and 4500 feet of tube.
Another 1500 feet of wire to go. It'll take some time to get it done but I will be able to transfer vacuum from another bush here and suck the sap back to the other releaser. The two together will have 1300 taps with eventual potential of over 2000. My front bush has about 1900 now so eventually I hope to get about 4000 taps here at home.
Bought an old JD 40 crawler to help maintain my woods roads. Hope it works out. I have no experience with crawlers but so far so good.
Went to my local dealer today and picked up part of my early season order. Brought home a truckload and there is more than that to come. Got this sugaring stuff so now I want to work in the woods instead of do the haying....
Made several small syrup sales this week. Couple for Father's day gifts. I got more jugs today so I can repackage more syrup. Also sold the last of the cream my mother made before she passed away. Guess it is time for me to make up a batch.
Keep looking at Maple trees and smiling:) Makes people wonder!

[Dennis H.]

I have been busy cutting and splitting wood for the coming season, Once I have it split I think I will have more than enough wood ready, well I hope!

I had to order more pint jugs the other day. It seems for me now that I am selling syrup everyone wants a pint of syrup. I had to give 2 1/2 pints to one person because I didn't have anymore syrup in pint jugs. I am surprised how much interest I am getting for my syrup. I hope it keeps going like this, with more trees possibly next year and most will be on tubing I will have more time to boil to make more syrup!

I am also working on plans to add a preheater/hood to the evap.
Then I will be looking into redoing the grates, I might try to use fire bricks with holes drilled in them. My grates that I fab'ed are doing ok but they are sagging a little in the middle.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Happy Summer!:)

[dschultz]

It's going to feel like summer here this week 90's all week they say.Can't wait for fall to get here hate the heat.

[caseyssugarshack93]

just rains here it sucks

[ennismaple]

I cleaned the pans on Saturday. I only gagged once - when I lifted the hood the smell took my breath away! After that it wasn't too bad. The 2-month old sap really shined the pans up good after we pressure washed the crud out. We got most of the camp cleaned up, some of next year's wood cut and took the last 3 drums to the house so they can be re-packaged. We also picked up a 1/2" transfer pump to use for emptying drums. Sales are going well and we may need to buy a couple drums of syrup before too long to keep up with demand!

[KenWP]

That must hurt Ennis to sell syrup cheap and buy it back expensive to fill orders. Have had that happen to me with grain and hay many times.

Working on evaporator updates. Doing blacksmith work right now and even with hearing protection my ears ring. Slowly getting there. When you don't actually have the right materials tring to make other stuff work is just so much fun.

[Brian Ryther]

What a long and stressful month it has been. My family and I have decided to up root and move from VT to NY. To most sugar makers this would seem backwards, but my land and sugaring operation is in central NY. I will now be able to be around my taps every day. The wife and kids moved this weekend. I am staying in VT for a few weeks to finish moving and trying to sell the house. I have a job offer with a ss pipe fitting and welding outfit in Worchester NY. If anybody in ct ny needs ss welding I will be available. The bad news is very bad. I have a 600 tap bush that has been totally defoilated by forest tent catapillers. I found it this weekend. It is the only forest with damage I have seen yet this summer. WHY ME??
BR

[Haynes Forest Products]

DID you happen to let it out that your from Vermont they dont take kindly to carpet baggers:emb: :evil:evil:

[ennismaple]

That must hurt Ennis to sell syrup cheap and buy it back expensive to fill orders. Have had that happen to me with grain and hay many times.

It's not so bad - the syrup I sold was amber and I'll buy a couple drums of extra light to mix with some amber I kept to make medium. I should be able to buy 2 drums for the same price I sold the other amber for.

[sapman]

I went out to cut the downed trees off the lines yesterday, and the saw quit after the first one. But the wire really sprung back up nicely, and the pipe looked fine.

Eric, I think Harry ended with around 225 gallons or thereabouts. I visited him just before he finished up, but that's where he thought he'd be.

All the best,
Tim

[3rdgen.maple]

Brian you are not the only one with forest tent catipillars. I have had them for several years now. 4th year to be exact. Last year was mild and thought we were through it. This year they are back again but fortunatly they are only hitting the cherry and birch trees. Kinda weird cause in years past they went for the maples first. I would suggest not to tap the ones that got hit hard. They are stressed and need a rest. My tap count went way down 2 years in a row and last year Finally got it back up. I experimented with one maple and tapped it both years it got hit and all I can say is it is gonna heat the house this winter. Local forester says to take saran wrap and wrap it around the base of the trees and coat it with vasoline and they cannot climb the tree. Never tried it but my brother did and the trees he put it on have no damage and the ones he didn't they got too. Of course you got to do it in the spring. What a way to ruin a move to your sugarbush I feel your pain.

[sapman]

3rdgen, are you sure this year's caterpillars are forest tent? I have not had them down here, but we do get a lot of regular tent caterpillars, ie. gypsy moths, I guess. But they always go for the cherry first. Never really seen them in maples much, fortunately.

Tim

[3rdgen.maple]

Sapman yeah pretty sure anyways. I have both but from what i can tell most are gypsie's. The way they were explained to me was one has a striped back and one has a spotted back. And I have seen them both. I am no catipillar expert by no means but when you stand still and listen you can hear the little (insert choice of word here) chewing.

[3rdgen.maple]

Just did some internet reading on the forest tent worms. I read that they have been down in numbers the past couple years cause of the cooler wetter springs we have had. So they are saying that we have not reached the peak of them yet and it is expected to reach peak in 2011 or 2012. Here are a couple quotes of the dnr sight. If many maple trees are effected (and they will cause severe decrease of sap collection), your state or county officials may grant the area a professionally done aerial pesticide attack. Ways to deter them. Sticky tape or sticky traps at the base of trees. You need to keep these traps maintained until July. A pail filled with water 1/4 full will attract them and quickly drown them in the water. To deter next years spread clip any nest you can reach and put them in a burn pile.
From what I understand is that they only peak every decade but it can extend over a few years dependant on the spring weather. And the death toll of trees is 10 percent of the trees that have bee defoileated by them.

[KenWP]

Slow but not sure I am getting wood cut up for winter. It's piled up so bad I can spend half a day trying to get one tree out of the mess. I have to cut it in just a certain way so that the big clump of dirt and roots can fall back flat on the ground again. Makes it hard to do as it keeps on grabbing the chain saw as it is cut and I have to pry it loose again. I have just about 10 full cords of logs piled up already ready to cut into 16 inch peices and haul to the house.
On a brighter note weather is fianlly getting hot around here and things are starting to grow.Time to work in the shop where it's cooler now and get things fixed up for next spring.

[gator330]

Is it June already!!!! Going to market with stuff from the garden and always have some syrup set out too, moving some every weekend. It's nice to go and do nothing for 4 hours on the weekend. Other then that it's run, run, run!! I'm set up next to the honey man and wife that are there every week. All the good stuff!!!!! The local market folks like the idea of syrup being there, so I think it will be a great way to move what I make. Thats the other thing, you can only sell what you grow or produce at this market. There intent is to keep it local. Not much inline of sugering is going on, no wood has been cut. The tube is being eaten at a record pace by grey rats that love blue plastic!!! I figure the wood will come fast when I head to the woods. All my ash are standing dead, I figure it's ash boar.

[maplecrest]

brian, this is the first year without forrest tents here. but as i look around i can still see them at work. what will happen is you will start to see them die. and they will die all over everything. drops, tubing, climbing trees. ect.a fungus will develop on the trees that will put them in check. that will kill them. how i do not know.we have had an east ward movement of them here for 3 years now. the state did spray for them that put alot of the organic producers out of organic for three years.the strings and mess they make sucks. but the producers around me still tapped and no one lost any trees in the totally deforested areas. the leaves will come back 1/3 the size aroundthe end of july. one day you will look and they will be back. the ones that do not leaf out again are the ones i would not tap in the spring. so go looking in august.

[Cardigan99]

few pics of leaves in central nh this afternoon:

Whoooops.. I'll try that again

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m257/cardigan99/turning%20leaves%20in%20june/

[Dennis H.]

Here I am in Burlington, Vt on a 5 day vacation to VT.
I had a few minutes at the Hotel and was wondering around and found a computer so I decided to check what else, the Trader!

We stopped by the Vermont Teddy Bear factory today and Tomorrow we are heading up to Swnaton to check out Leader.

Well I just ran out of time on the computer here, later all.

[KenWP]

Well we are haveing summer finally. If those trees are not makeing sugar today they might as well be used for firewood. I figure that next year will be a way different year then this year based on the weather we are haveing. Last summer was warm until the 20th of June then it rained untill september. This year I am watering the garden every day almost. Time will tell if I am right or not.

[sapman]

3rdgen, I was working just down the road from you today at a camp at Lorton Lake. I believe I saw several forest tent caterpillars crawling around on the ground. They had spots, instead of stripes. Interestingly, I did not see any tents in the trees, and there were tons of maple around, sugars and reds. It's interesting, the bark on both appear similar to me. I really have to look at the leaves to figure them out. Much different where I am.

Tim

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Tim,
The Forest tent catapillar does not actually make a tent. They drop from the trees to the ground on a thread of web. When they get bad you will be able to tell the sugars from the reds. The sugars bark will be totally covered with the buggers:( and the reds won't have any.
Doug

[3rdgen.maple]

3rdgen, I was working just down the road from you today at a camp at Lorton Lake. I believe I saw several forest tent caterpillars crawling around on the ground. They had spots, instead of stripes. Interestingly, I did not see any tents in the trees, and there were tons of maple around, sugars and reds. It's interesting, the bark on both appear similar to me. I really have to look at the leaves to figure them out. Much different where I am.

Tim

I just took a drive there a couple weeks ago. What happened to that lake there was just a stream in the middle of the lake? Yep they are the spotted ones. The maples are definately funny here for sure. There are reds that the bark is easy to identify them by then there are reds that the bark is identical to a sugar. I like to tell my dad when I see one like that, which is most of them that it is inbred. I have too look at the leaves also alot of the times. Even some of the reds have alot sharper points on them like the reds and have a hint of 2 more lobes on them. If you wait till fall the color of the leaves makes the sugars stand out from them. And the worst way to identify them like thompson's tree farm said the forest tent worms don't seem to touch the reds. I wonder why that is? Did you see any maples that have a shaggy type bark to them? They look like if you touch the bark it will just fall off the tree. Real loose bark barely attached in strips. I have a few of them and the leaf looks just like a sugar but have always wondered what type of maple they truely are.

[KenWP]

Went to my first garage sale around here that actually had maple equipment for sale. Unfortunatly it was something I had no use for. Was the float box off of a evaporator with the float and plug and related gizmos. Nice peice of SS for 20 bucks.
This fellow had syrup for sale also. $6 for a 540ml can. I told him I had my own and he went real cold on me after that. Owell guess he can't be the only guy makes syrup in Quebec.

[Gary R]

Been on vacation all week. On Thursday, My wife and I did a little sugarhouse visiting. We stopped at Patterson Farms. Home of 70,000 taps. Richard Patterson was kind enough to take time out of his day to show us around. Never seen stuff that big.

Then it was off to Theron's house. We got to see what a guy with that kind of energy can do in 2 years. Real nice place. All that BIG SAP coming right to him! Thanks for the tour.

Going to the Maple Assoc. picnic tomorrow.

[jrthe3]

after i ruff spring and being back on my feet i got started cutting wood today going to get splitter tomorrow it is all slow going right know with bum knee but just happy to get out and get going on sugar season

[220 maple]

Doing preliminary work on a major expansion. Hope to tap four different property owners, three of them I'm hoping to handle the sap at my camp, the fourth property which will be the largest by far I have another syrupmaker lined up to purchase the sap. He bought sap last year and paid a good price per gallon. The three bushes near my camp should not have over 1000 taps each. My next step is to tie ribbons around the trees on these bushes then I'll have a good idea of how much money is going to be involved. Has anyone ever use farm credit for loans on Maple equipment. I was told that they like loaning money to syrupmakers because of the quick payoff. My equipment dealer said to figure 5 dollars a tap to build a system right. I will build it right I already have three bushes that are not set up right, and that enough. When they are built right the amount of sap to the taphole goes thru the roof. They built a tubing system right in Somerset County, Pa. it paid for itself plus.

Mark 220 Maple

[chrisnjake9]

what is the price per gallon of sap if some one was buying or selling some

[Parker]

I have 3 systems that are not too far from being right and the produce 19 gallons of sap per tap,,,with old sp-22's that dont run all the time they should....I dont think you could build them for $5 a tap though,,mabey $10?
Have not worked up any wood for Marvin so far this summer (have brought alot of it home),,,been busy messing around with firewood and trying to keep-get trucks running,,,,,tight log-pulp-firewood markets around here at the moment,,,got a nice wood order last week-22 cords of 4' unsplit wood,,,my favorite,,,,you should see the size of the ouside boiler these people have,,,,I LOVE OUTDOOR BOILERS,,,,WOODHOGS!!!
Hope everyone is enjoying their summer......

[Dave Y]

220,
My tubing system has cost me around $7 a tap. and thats with a lot of it at wholesale pricing. If I had to pay retail, I would agree with Parker. $10 a Tap.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I agree, $10/tap...if you do all the labor yourself and if the taps are in a consolidated location, and if you can get a good deal on pumps and tanks. Farm credit in this area will loan for maple. Go to them with a good, sound, conservative plan. Show that you have some good sound collateral and are investing yourself into the operation. Remember that there is little market for used tubing or the labor put into erecting it so they can't easily "sell you out" to cover any losses.

[Father & Son]

chrisnjake9,
The Maple Digest that is published in Dec or Jan has a chart in it that is a guide to price sap delivered to the sugarhouse based on sugar content but in the end it really depends on what the buyer is willing to pay.

Jim

[3% Solution]

Hi all,
Haven't posted in awhile, thought we need an update.
The evaporator is all back together from the cleaning this past spring.
Just need to bring in 1 1/2 cords of wood and we're ready to go!!
May have to tap some different trees this spring as my good friend isn't doing very good and he owns the land.
Found some clear labels to make our own with. Think this is going to work good for the glass containers.
Hope everyone is having a good summer.
Stay safe!!

Dave

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Would Ya look at that. Took that English speaking Quebecer under 6 months to reach a thousand posts. Probably because we understand his lingo better than his neighbors:lol:

[sapman]

I just took a drive there a couple weeks ago. What happened to that lake there was just a stream in the middle of the lake? Yep they are the spotted ones. The maples are definately funny here for sure. There are reds that the bark is easy to identify them by then there are reds that the bark is identical to a sugar. I like to tell my dad when I see one like that, which is most of them that it is inbred. I have too look at the leaves also alot of the times. Even some of the reds have alot sharper points on them like the reds and have a hint of 2 more lobes on them. If you wait till fall the color of the leaves makes the sugars stand out from them. And the worst way to identify them like thompson's tree farm said the forest tent worms don't seem to touch the reds. I wonder why that is? Did you see any maples that have a shaggy type bark to them? They look like if you touch the bark it will just fall off the tree. Real loose bark barely attached in strips. I have a few of them and the leaf looks just like a sugar but have always wondered what type of maple they truely are.

Sorry to reply so late. Been away and busy for awhile.
3rdgen, I noticed that dam work was being done when I was there, and the locals were saying that some officials were pretty upset because of the trout population in the stream. But it was a lake again on Thursday, I'd say about 4' below normal. I have noticed several trees your talking about. It seems many sugars to the north, or higher elevation don't have the smooth bark I'm used to. Wednesday I was northeast of Osceola in the sticks, and really noticed different looking sugars there.

As to cost per tap, so far my expansion has been closer to $15/tap, so I can't wait to get more in and bring that cost down. This includes all tubing, taps, fittings, new stainless tank, vacuum pump, etc. I was warned that on smaller operations (<1000 taps), cost could be $20/tap.

Tim

[dano2840]

been busy havent touched one of these computers in 3 weeks done with school and went right into working mowing full time again like last summer only im not the new guy any more and now ive got my own zero turn i run. after work ive been logging, thinned out the neighboring proporty of the sugar woods pole sized logs now im winching them down the hill god i hope it will be dry for sugaring season, if i get it cut and split in a hurry 3/4 of its still felled on the mountain but atleast its downits hard being able to get my hands on the tractor when i have time to use the thing sugar house roof is leaking into evaporator, now ive got to fix the roof and re clean evap, racoon some how managed to open 5 gall bucket cover full of what was fancy not any more it discolored and got water in it from the leaky roof that reallly ticked me off some thing fierce. been working until i cant see every night took tonight off first night since uhhhmmm december?

[3rdgen.maple]

Your A MADMAN Danno a madman you work harder than alot of people I know.
Spent some time in the Sugarhouse cleaning and polishing up the evaporator. Cut some more wood and cut a new sap road into a sugarbush I will be tapping next year. Shooting for 600 taps this time around. I cannot believe the amount of maples on this land. I think if I actually did a tree count I could triple that. So gonna keep that new rig I got last year nice and pretty cause I think she is gonna go on the market at the end of next season. If I keep adding taps I will need a bigger rig. Is a mapleholic ever satisfied??????????????

[220 maple]

Dave Y
Sorry I haven't responded sooner. Last week when I asked my equipment dealer what the avg. cost per tap for a tubing system was he said 5 dollars a tap 8 if he and some helpers put it in. I'm sure the 8 dollar number will be closer when all is said and done, I am planning on building them myself. My son who just finished college with a economics degree an has not found a real job yet, I guess he will be learning how to install a high production tubing system. Lol. Nothing like going for a Masters Degree with the old man. I'm 50 he's 23, can he hang, thats the real question????????

Mark 220 Maple

[KenWP]

I guess I could do something constructive besides talk to you guys but your right I don't have any neighbours to talk to and Lodge is only twice a month and half them talk french too so I have to amuse myself somehow.
I am still trying to think out the improvements to the evaporator. I get a brain rush and then find out it dosn't work so I have to go back to the drawing board again. Time will tell if I get this done before I am bald.

[Parker]

Ill bet the cost per tap of a "High production" system would be closer to $15 a tap-mabey more,,(just in materials),,,by High production I mean wet-dry line with boosters-all the proper valving,,real vacuum pump, releaser,stainless tank,,,BUT,,,,how long will it take to pay for itself at 1/2 a gallon per tap? Not very is my guess....like a fellow whos land I tap on once told me after he saw how much sap was comming off his land "this is a better investment than the stockmarket",,,,at the time I said "I dont know about that",,,,,,,he did not see it took all summer to fill the woodshed,,and all the $$$ in inferstructure,,,,ect.

[KenWP]

If a guy just uses buckets it would still cost a few bucks to start up. Buckets are from $3 to $5 around here and then $1.50 for a lid if your lucky and then $1.50 for a tap and then 5 gallon pails cost almost $10 bucks. Then you have to buy containers to hold sap and thye don't come cheap. Then you have to figure out how to boil it down after you collected all the sap. Then if you get a poor year for buckets the cost takes a while to even get close to evening up for you.
This was the first year they had crop insurance for maple in Quebec and you have to have 7000 liters of syrup production to be able to get insurance. With the way this year went as to syrup production it will help a lot in the future as it sets the baseline for when you get a poor year and try and collect as its based on a 5 year average.

[dschultz]

The most I pay for 5 gallon pail's is .75 cents and the tap I use is .35 cents.

[220 maple]

Parker,
I have not spent a dime on equipment yet, and may not. I'm going to walk the woods and tie ribbons around all the trees that are tappable, my first cousins property has far to many trees for ribbons so He and I are going to use tree paint to get some type of accounting on how many trees are on his 400 acre farm, after that is complete my equipment dealer has agreed to come walk the properties and give a honest accessment of the damage that will occur to my bank account. As I stated earlier I will borrow some money for this expansion. Usually anything put in the woods pays for itself in the first season. I had a uncle who insisted my father and myself tap the trees in the hollow behind his house, they used to tap them years ago. He wanted to see the water run again from those trees. I scouted the hollow and could not find a little over 100 taps, My father said no it's not worth it. My uncle and aunt kept asking until I told my dad lets put a half inch line in and run all the taps to one tank. I kept account of every dime spent, and I mean every dime. I believe we did this before the spring of 2001. We spent $235.00 on everything, We got some where near 600 gallons of sap out of that hollow. Made 12 gallons of syrup that was selling at that time for 30 dollars a gallon. 30 x 12 = 360 dollars. Just for fun lets say I broke even. Them crazy trees have ran like that just about every year since then. The other example happened this spring in Someset County, a ca 6500 tap system was put in last fall it averaged 16 gallon of sap to the taphole. It paid for itself plus money to spare, if it's a lie a Amish man told it. I went and looked at that system in March, it had only been running for about a week. I was amazed how much sap was coming in that day, the owners son was hauling water away 500 gallon at a time and was struggling to keep up. He told me they was making over 200 gallons of syrup a day. Needless to say this system was built right, main lines on a 3 to 5 percent slope, tubing coming straight down the hill, tight and going into saddles, wet and dry lines, boosters with high vacuum. Just like Leader said to build it.

Mark 220 Maple

[Sugarmaker]

Got my candy molds from syrup maker in Mass., four 40 count small leaf molds and 10 other molds of various shapes and sizes.
Have syrup boiling now for mustard and maple BBQ. Sales have been mostly wholesale recently as the local farmers stands open up.
Had a great time at the NWPA maple picnic last Sunday.

Also canned 10 gallon of early honey and may have another 10 gallon to take off in the next week. Honey is about 20% of our sales.

Regards,
Chris

[3rdgen.maple]

sugar maker I have been looking for a good maple bbq sauce, care to share yours it would be for personal use only.

[KenWP]

This may sound stupid but the amish where I come from didn't use anything like electric motors and such so how do yours run vaccuum. Didn't know they relaxed their ways.

[3rdgen.maple]

I believe there are Amish who are very strict in their ways and then there are Meninites who are a little more relaxed and indulge in a little bit of modernization.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Ken,
There are all kinds of Amish groups around the US and Canada. They go from very conservative to quite liberal in the things they may or may not use. All depends on the group. 220 said that an Amish man told him about it, he didn't say an Amish man actually did it. Changes occur in Amish communities on a regular basis. Around here a few years ago they could not use a band saw mill, only the old circular saw ones. Now there are as many band mills as circle mills. There is pressure in this Amish community to allow the use of plastic tubing in the sugar bushes. My guess is that within 5 years this group will be using it. It is only a short step from there to vacuum using gas powered engines.

[KenWP]

I grew up in a mennonite community and if you seen my last name you would know why. We had a few amish around also just to slow traffic down a bit. Everybody had at least one cell phone and a two way radio and a mike phone and no radio or tv. When some big news item happened you couldn't buy a paper for days in town.
I reread the post and understand what he said now.

[PATheron]

You guys were talking about costs per tap. I just figured out the cost per tap to put another bush of my own in and came up with 6 dollars per tap to put the tube in the air to the releaser. Thats complete from the releaser out and that done totally right. Wet, dry trunkline. 100' spacing on mainlines. 50' laterals max, 5 taps per lat. Now that bush has a nice concentration of maples so it can be gridded off and that makes a big difference but thats the number if you did it your self. Now you buy the ring pump and releaser and your at 12 bucks a tap and you havent bought the tanks yet either. This is on a small number of taps though. More cost effective the bigger the bush I think. My opinion is the only way you can make serious money at maple is this. High vac, new plastic in trees, tap early, dont turn the pump off if you can help it, concentate high, dont hire much help. Theron